Reminds me of one of my husbands favorite sayings;

"What someone else thinks of me, is none of my business"!

It is a world of perception.

Mimi..

You said the following on a different thread in reference to your own Mother:

"No longer welcome in my house because of things that she did and said to my H."

Care to elaborate?

This looks like another possible example of "going for the jugular"...

And what are you doing to heal this wound Mimi?

Pep

Mimi....

I'm on board with Pep, here.

I think you should talk with Pep, MM, others you respect here about your Mom.

I know it is uncomfortable...but there will be a day when you won't get another chance.

Georgia

PEP AND GEORGIA:

Thanks for calling me on this.

This issue is my focus today. It is on my heart and mind.

This is in the RUN not the JUGULAR category right now.

Our interactions with each other have turned into yelling matches in the past. Lately, I've been running.....because I want to go for the jugular. I've been working on a middle ground which I haven't found.

She has really done some awful things to me...

Do you have time to hear? It's a long story. I'm not sure if this can be resolved.

Georgia, remember the grandmother who died in July, my F's mother? Well, my M participated in removing all the furniture from her house without informing me of this... She has in her possession a letter from my grandmother that I was supposed to read at her death but has refused to give it to me....

She was divorced from my F... Had an A with her present H while he was married yet won't forgive my H and didn't want me to, wanted me to date during PLAN B......

Alot of issues.....

Mimi,

I agree with the others. You definitely need to deal with the issue of your mother while she's alive.

Whether this forum is the right way to do this is of course up to you.

As a side note, my mother died unexpectedly when I was 22. Unfortunately our relationship at that time wasn't the best. It's important that YOU be at peace with where you are with your mother before she dies....and by the sound of it, it may be a long time coming.

Because it's you who has to live with yourself after your mother is gone. Your journey towards peace with her is simply a gift you give to yourself. And it's a better journey to take while she's living even though the journey is all about you.

I thought some more on this. Your comments are welcome.

I've been years and years trying to resolve my issues associated with this R. Years as a child, years in therapy. Can you believe that I have felt most resolved about that relationship, not being involved with her? Even my IC thought she was not a good person for me to turn to for consolation. It has ended up being about her because she is "narcissistic"; the ICs I have had have agreed with this diagnosis.

I have always, it seems, struggled with her not listening to ME, not understanding ME... She just didn't seem to get it.

So what to do now? I will say my goodbyes to her. However, to be honest, I'm not even sure if I believe that she has ovarian cancer. My aunt told me that. This may sound cold to you but I'm wondering if it's another way for her to get attention.

I know that's sad and sounds awful for me to think this way.

It's on my heart and mind. I will pursue it further....

So what to do now?

Only if you yell back is this possible.

Pep

And so has your husband ...

Pep

Do you also struggle listening to HER and understanding HER ?

This is difficult if not impossible if both persons are yelling.

Pep

seek first to understand ... not to be understood

just a suggestion ...

Pep

PEP:

You are asking helpful questions. I appreciate this.

My H yes has done awful things to me. Compared to my M, other than the time period of the A, he understands ME and GETS IT whereas she doesn't.

You also asked about the listening to HER. Our conversations tend to turn to her ONLY WANTING ME TO LISTEN TO HER. She doesn't SEEM to want to LISTEN TO ME.

As a young child, I watched her RAGES (sound familiar) at my F. Then, she would want me to counsel HER and take care of HER. It was scary for me to have to try to console and calm down my M so she wouldn't hurt herself or my F. I needed HER THEN. I needed HER during my H's A. To me, it always ended up being about HER.

NOW, I'm trying to learn to take care of myself. She probably needs ME now to take care of HER.

Mimi....

Remember our discussion about OS / YS? You can't control the situation, you can only tell them how you feel and how YOU plan to respond.

Can you write her a letter just expressing how you FEEL about the things you have said here? Can you tell her how you wish you had been able to have the R with her that you had with your GM? Can you tell her why you felt GM was so special?

"Even my IC thought she was not a good person for me to turn to for consolation."

I think we would all agree that she can't console you (about the A). However, as unfortunate as it may be at this point, this is another situation where if Mimi doesn't step up to the plate, no one is going to. I can almost hear your -sigh- to think of such a thing, what with the RUNAWAY thing and all. But...isn't that what the Proverbs 31 woman is all about? If your GM had been in your shoes, what would she have done? You want to be like her, right?

Georgia

THANKS, PEP!

I will think on what my GM would counsel me to do. She is the one who used to console me. I miss her and need her.....However, I AM HER... she lives inside of me...

Also, I had been planning on sending her a letter. I thought I had plenty of time to do it.

None of this is in our hands, is it?

As my wise Father always used to say, "Be careful what you despise because it just may become you."

It's frightening to think we become our mothers and it often takes others to see it and point it out to us. Narcissist rarely see themselves for what they are. Any counselor will say it's virtually impossible to heal from that affliction.

Battling narcissists competing for the attention THEY think THEY deserve can be volatile. They come to hate the ones who rob them of the attention they "know" is theirs. Analyzing the pronouns narcissists use is interesting as a narcissist's primary subject is themselves. I often wonder if they consciously think God revolves around them too.

My H and MIL were both raging narcissists. She could spew out hatred in a manner than was more than frightening at anyone who was a threat to her or disagreed with her in any way. I thought I had seen people do evil things to others until I knew her. Narcissists tend to be very immature throughout their lives, have few if any close friends and have difficulty with reality. They tend to drive the people in their lives to exhaustion in dealing with their sickness. When my MIL died, I think the only person who was sad was her son, the narcissist...but then again if the truth were really known, I suspect he was as thrilled as I and others that were forced to deal with her that she was finally gone.

OH MY, JBH:

I may be evidencing some of her ways. I guess that makes a lot of sense.

I've been striving it seems like forever to NOT be like her...

You do describe her well and seem to understand what I have faced.

I'm planning on calling her tomorrow.

Any luck that she has changed since she is sick?

I'll see...

Please don't expect to see her change, Mimi.

YOU can change though. And you can change your reaction to her.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

About parents: My dad was a controlling, opinionated, occasionally mean man. At this point in my life, I realize that a lot of this came from his insecurity and lack of education. On the other hand, his 6 kids, bullied, intimidated and too scared to do anything else, grew up pretty okay. Nobody dropped out of school. Nobody "had" to get married. Nobody has ever been in trouble with the law. Dad worked hard to make sure we had what little we had. It was fine.

My dad was always abusive in a 50's kind of way. He was raised to think it was just fine to discipline your kids with spankings and slaps. Throw in a little verbal abuse and self-esteem reducing. My older brothers caught most of the crap. By the time I was a teenager, I wasn't having any of it. I moved far away and became independent. (Although oddly enough, that is the timeframe I met WH !?!?) Move to the 80's and incidents I didn't like with my kids. Move to the 90's and my mom left him after a history of domestic abuse came to light.

About 7 years ago, our family was transferred and we relocated close to our parents. After we moved, I was never able to find the time to see him. We talked a couple of times on the phone but that was it. Six months after we moved back here, my dad died in bed. Died in his girlfriend's bed, I might add. And just guess who the GF called to tell he died? Me. All the kids made the funeral. 6 kids=6 pallbearers. It was horrid.

Okay, the point? In the last 6 years, I've always wondered if I would regret that I hadn't seen him or taken the family to visit during that time before his death. And you know what, so far, I never have. I feel blessed that he went quickly without lingering, pain and no guilt-ridden deathbed scenes. I suppose I've got a lot of years to reflect on it but I don't see it changing.

Make your peace and move on.

Thank you, Susan and Grape Girl!!

I'm listening.....

Parents don't change. We are always their children. There are patterns of interaction and emotion that are difficult to break. At some point you have to decide if it's worth the while to even try. When the parents get older, it's hard for them to change. They hardly ever admit that their children have changed.

When I lived and on the Left Coast, a lot of people were "parent dependent" for a long time. There were people in their 40's still being supported and helped along in their lives by their parents. They'd get their parent's old cars or help buying houses or vacations. (At that point, I figure you ought to be sending money home.) Not only that, the "kids" were still blaming their parents for all of the horrible things that had happened to them in life. Ah, if they'd only been put in the right preschool, everything would have been different.

I say, take control of your own life. At a certain point, you are what you have made yourself. The past figures in but it's a condiment not the main course.

You don't know how your mom really is or how long she has. But you do know you will live with yourself the rest of your life. Listen to your inner voice...its there and knows what you need.

My MIL HATED me for taking away her darling son. (He was darling at the time). She ignored my existance most of the time the rest of the time she treated me badly. So much so that we stopped visiting her except on certain family occassions. When my son was born she changed a little but was still very stand offish and cold. When my daughter was 6 months old MIL found she had bladder cancer. She got a systemic infection while taking chemo and became septic.
The infection got so bad they were unable to treat it and sent her home to die.

My FIL was lost he had no clue what to do or how to take care of her. She had 3 sons who were also clueless. My one SIL, the one closest to MIL was too upset to care for her, my other SIL too grossed out by the physical care involved. So that left me...the nurse. I was her primary caregiver. The person she hated most in the world...or so I thought.

We took her home the cancer had spread like wild fire through her body and into her bones. She had tremendous pain. I managed her pain and attended to her physical needs surrounded her with things that she loved. Most of that time she was unconscious. I was at her bedside 24/7. In between teaching FIL how to boil water and do laundry. She had 6 female friends. They called themselves the "Magnificant Seven". They would take turns coming and help me bathe her and visit. They told me stories about my MIL. I had no idea what kind of person she was, she always came of cold and bitter to me. Her friends told wonderful stories about her and how sorry she was for the way she had treated me. And how proud she was of me that I was a good mother and wife. This came as a total surprise to me!! She never said a word.

When her breathing changed at 3 in the morning I knew the end was near. I woke everyone up and we were all with her when she died. It has the hardest most wonderful thing I have ever done. It gave me the opportunity for closure. I talk to her all the time now. I see so much of her in my H.
Many of his reactions are like hers. I keep hoping she'll visit him in a dream and kick his a$$!!

I'm not much on giving advice...but...do what you need to do to give yourself closure. You can't control her response but you can listen to your inner voice.