mimi, i'm glad my post to you helped.

Hi AW, i'm sorry Aussie will not be there for the birth. that really does stink. you take good care of yourself and that precious bump.

I'm not doing so great. i seem to have taken a bit of a nose dive. H and daughter left for an overnight trip earlier today and i did not send them off too happily.

i find i don't want to hear him say he loves me anymore, cuz i don't believe it. and i don't want to be close to him anymore cuz he makes it very obvious it is physical only, or at best perhaps 90% physical.

i am still very proud of myself, i really am. but i am burning out some. i need some sort of a break. i'm kinda glad he is not home tonight. and i hate to have to admit that. he is also going to be gone for 2 days next week and i am again kinda glad.

i really think i have been doing very very good. i have become very self-seficient. but i am tired. and i guess what it really boils down to is that i am lonley <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

would love any suggestions. i certainly don't want to do anything stupid.

Hello FL-T2M.

I am going to offer some advice, as your situation is sort of similar to ours. Take it with a grain of salt, 'cause I am really not familiar with the relationship dynamic between you and your H.

If I were your H, I would want you to be discussing this with me. I know that for me at least, recovery is only happening with 100% pull-no-punches honesty on the part of my W. If I even catch a whiff of her trying to "spare my feelings", I become distant. I mean, I have chosen to stay with her in spite of multiple A's...I think I have proven that I can handle whatever she throws at me. To even imply otherwise strikes me as VERY disrespectful, even insulting.

Marriage ain't about everything being sweetness and light. We are all still individuals, with our own wants, needs, and fears. Choosing to share those, even when it is something you feel your partner doesn't want to hear, shows trust and the desire for a true partnership, as opposed to only being man and wife when it is convenient. I know I want to hear the bad things, the doubts, heck, even the anger and resentment. How else can I ever try to make it right, or at least to offer understanding if it is over something I don't want to change?

All this might already be part of your relationship with your husband, and I might be way off base. I just know, from the point of view of a BS that is the victim of multiple A's involving the internet...if my W chooses to turn to messageboards and well-intentioned strangers over the internet instead of us working through things together, it is very hurtful to me(given our history), and has made me question my decision to remain together.

In short, if I were you, I would be telling my H these things, and asking HIS input. Sharing what is said here, of course, because there are some folks who really know what they are talking about.

At the end of the day, marriage is between two people. And most of the folks that post here have the bitter knowledge of what can happen if one partner forgets that, even for the briefest time and most innocent motives.

All the best to you and your family-

OAK

OAK,

i do tell him everything. a few days ago he said, when i shared how i was doing.... he has his own things to deal with, it was a short, to the point and very cold msg.

he has stated concern over MB posting as well as emailing anyone i have "met" here. so i backed off. then i wrote him a long letter, explaining to him how isolated i was feeling, how i had no one to talk to, he does not want me to talk to him about my feelings right now, he is trying to figure it all out. he has not really committed to anything yet. he just says he does not know. he is not wearing his wedding ring and he has made it very clear that he is not wearing it on purpose. an yway he told me i could continue with MB if that helps.

two nights ago, i came up to him when he was sitting on the couch watching tv and knelt down between his legs and told him we have an opportunity here, to build a marriage where we can both feel safe and fullfilled and i asked him to please not brush the opportunity away. he did not respond. he does not want to split, he likes to be physical sometimes, but at the same time he does not want to be emotionally close. last weekend, i believe this was on mother's day, he said that he did not see how he could possibly get passed this. and yet he continues to say he wants to stay married for the kids sake.

so now tell me, how do i handle things with a spouse that does not want to hear "the bad things, the doubts, heck, even the anger and resentment"? heck he does not even want to hear the positives from me really. he just wants to live with a superficial relationship so the kids can grow up with a mom and a dad in the same household.

I want to reiterate, I don't have all of the answers. We still have rough days too...but they are becoming less and less.

He still wants to be married. Let's think about that a minute. Even after what has gone on, he thinks the children need a 2 parent home. Looking a little deeper, wouldn't it stand to reason that he also thinks you have something to offer as a mother? That you do still have worth, and more, sufficient worth to remain a part of his life, and to keep your family in SPITE of what went on? Don't sell that short, FL. It may be that there is a message there for you, just perhaps not a verbal one.

Plan A, my friend. You have the rest of your lives to show him that you are not who you were. For me, the one of the biggest things that helps is that my W shows respect for the boundaries I have.

We have had similar convo's to what I imagine you guys did about the whole posting on the board bit. She still talks to me about wanting to get on the internet sometimes. I am just a lot uncomfortable with it. But, there is a caveat. See, through all of the dishonesty while the A's were ongoing, my W showed me in no uncertain terms that what she wants will trump what I am uncomfortable with in some situations. I tell her I don't own her, she is her own person, and it is not in my place to FORBID her anything. I can't stop her from doing anything she chooses to do. Not in my place to even try, regardless of how much I might want to. All I can do is tell her when something troubles me, and trust that she has enough respect for me to consider the pro's and con's. If she decides that getting online for her comfort is more important that staying off for mine....well, that kinda tells me where I rate. Even then, it is her decision, not mine, to make.

Trying to build a relationship out of the ashes of multiple A's ain't for the fainthearted. This very morning, I was having a rough time...the memories of how completely she snowed me were just eating me up, and making me question how we could ever have a complete M with the doubts I still have.

I asked her if we could talk...told her that she might not want to hear what I had to say, but that is was important to me that I say it. So she agreed, we put our son in his room, and had an hour or so of pretty uncomfortable conversation. Now, there is nothing that she can really say that will put these doubts to rest...I mean , the doubts are as to whether I can trust her word, you know?

What she told me was that she hopes that one day I will regain my faith in her, and until that day, she will continue doing what she chose to do a couple of months post D-Day...be the best partner to me and mother to our son she can. Not for my benefit, but for hers. That she is becoming every day a better person than she was the day before, and that she is mine in whatever capacity I can accept her.

That attitude of hers...I just KNOW, in time, I will be able to take her at her word again. Even when everything looks dark and gloomy, when my emotions are just tearing me apart...I can think rationally, if she gives me no further reason to doubt her, and every reason not to, it will make a difference. Maybe not today, maybe not next year, but in time. Credit to her for being willing to take that time.

I know it isn't easy on the FWS, either. But the impression she gives me is that she really does see things differently now. Mind you, she was really good at hiding her feeling from me, back then. So, we just take each day as it comes, and try to weather the distance. It takes a lot of effort for me to keep her out when she is not pushing me to let her in, but rather is just being someone that I can gain so much from having in my life.

All the best to you and your family...and may the Lord bless you with patience, strength, and more patience <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

-OAK

I can tell you from personal experience, the kids will know the difference.... I grew up in a house like that, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Kids, especially at the age yours are, are pretty good at pegging something like that for what it is. They're smarter than you think, and one day they'll call your bluff, I'm afraid.

As far as working on your relationship goes... just don't push him. When he's ready to talk to you, listen.... and he'll eventually want to listen to you, hopefully. Go on with your personal self-improvement daily and one day he'll see that you are different to the person that hurt him. Just be that honest, open, faithful person that just happens to be sitting on his couch every evening and he'll probably see that growth in you in time. Even if he doesn't see it, you'll have a better person to look at in the mirror every day, and that's a great thing regardless of your situation.

I agree totally with OAK that you should be talking to him about this, even if he doesn't want to hear it right now.Some of it will filter through, and showing that you are willing to be honest and open with him even when he doesn't want to hear it will be a point in your favor even if he gets cold and distant right now. He will come to value it eventually. Just don't push him to move any faster toward forgiveness and recovery... that has to come in its own time, and no amount of persuasion will help from your end of things, and could hurt the situation....

Good luck!

FallingUp

I am not familiar with your history. But it does remind me of similar dynamics that I was dealing with when my xWs got into Recovery from drug and alcohol addiction. He had multiple relapses over the years.

It took a heck of a lot longer than 7 or 8 months into Recovery for me to trust him. (Wasn't your final D-day in October?) I told him when he was discharging from his last treatment that I wasn't sure I wanted him to come home. I told him I wasn't making any promises about staying with him regardless if he remained in Recovery or not. I told him that it was his responsibility to work his Recovery program whatever it took. (AA/NA..group therapy) I told him that I would assume his wasn't trustworthy until he showed it by his behavior over time. (That took about two years total) I told him that there were things I wanted/needed to talk with him about over time...aspects of how I felt when he was using.

He did not start begging me to come home, he did not start crying asking me to take him back, as he had in the past. He said "I have no right to expect you to take me back. It's up to me to work my program. I can understand why you don't trust me. It's up to me to earn back your trust...your respect. I'm asking you for another chance, but I have no right to expect that you will give it to me." Just hearing him express accountability was such a big step.

I struggled with wanting to support his efforts vs. not wanting to get hurt again. I finally decided that the majority of his support would need to come from his fellow AA/NA members. I wouldn't nag and complain about every little thing with him, but I wasn't going to be his main "cheerleader" either. I would be more "neutral". I needed to stay focused on my own healing, and watch to see if his walk matched his talk.

As far as closeness, affection...it needed to come at a pace I was comfortable with. If that meant we weren't always as affectionate or close as he wanted at first, I reminded him that I lacked his emotional support and closeness for a long time. He went through his alcoholism/addiction "medicated". The rest of us had to deal with it straight up. He didn't even remember a lot of the things he had done while using. I did. I had a lot of anger and pain to deal with.

I know this sounds pretty negative, but he did get better. Our relationship got better and better. We had some very good years together. I was madly in love with him. He had 6 years clean and sober prior to having an affair.

I don't know you and your husband. But I do know in reading what you've shared that I would have felt like you were crowding me, trying to push too hard for what you wanted, not respecting my needs/wants. I would have felt that you were being somewhat self-centered, wanting what you wanted when you wanted it. Just like when you had your affairs.

None of this is meant to discredit your personal progress. I'm just trying to give you another point of view to consider...and to give you some hope that things can work out. But it will involve you respecting his wants/needs, timing, etc. Never to the point of abuse...but you have a lot of amends to make over time. If you think you can't hang in there because your needs aren't being met as soon as you like, it's up to you to stay or leave.

FL, just wanted you to know I read this and I am praying for you. {{FL}}

OAK,

i first read your post last night.

funny, last night all i felt was a 2x4. and it kinda hurt..

the message i heard loud and clear is that i am being selfish. and you know what, you are 100% absolutely correct.

Once the kids were in bed, i told my H that I owed him an appology. i told him it has taken me way too long to truely care that MB makes him uncomfortable. It's not that i didn't care, i just was not looking at strickly from his point of view. for me, MB has been such a life-changing (for the better!!) thing. and since it has improved who i am, it has been a positive life-changing thing for his life too. and because of that when he would say he is uncomfortable with the idea, i kept thinking... but if you only understood how good it has been for me!!!!! when i truely should of only been focusing in on: it is uncomfortable for him. and so i assured him i would no longer post, (with the 1 exception of this post, in order to thank you and to let everyone else know, not to worry about not seeing any more posts from me)

last night, after reading this, it hurt. it hurt to have to look at that mirror you put up in front of my face saying, you are acting selfishly!!!

but today, i read it, after being able to accept the picture in the mirror, and choose to adjust my actions accordingly, i don't find it harsh at all, in fact i find that it was written kindly and well-intentioned.

and i thank you.

i will probably still read some (i very much want to continue to read the thread about H and W roles) but i will definitely NOT be posting anymore.

I don't want H to be uncomfortable with anything i do.

falling up and heartmending... thanks for sharing your story and thoughts too.

FF.. rest assured i will still be praying for you!!! and i will be quietly reading your thread. MB love to you!!!

God bless you in this journey, FL. I am sure your H will appreciate this effort.