Thank you for your continued support WAT,

When I initially came to this forum I identified you as a clear thinker with a firm grasp of the principles espoused by MB. I have taken liberal doses of your counsel and it has served me well, in spite of the failure of this marriage. I thank you.

I have rediscovered a sense of adventure through this. The unknown that awaits me is no longer a daunting enemy, but an undiscovered reality. I will embrace it.

I would still prefer my marriage not have failed, and I still feel heaviness when I remember getting on bended knee and asking that young woman to be my first wife, but that was, this is.

Some folks like to snow-plow through the moguls.......I think I'm going to tuck..

Binder,

So how did WW react to you note? Or was there a reaction?

Cheers,

Miker

Don't know, I dropped it in her mailbox and went to the cabin. Aside from answering my cell when she called the children there, I've not, and do not speak with her. We have few common friends now, and of those we have, I do not ask. Further, I'm not sure that my MIL knows yet as I've not told her. Even though she has been my most ardent supporter, I see her drifting back to WW....they all do....eventually.

I admit to being vaguely curious, but that's all. I'll eventually hear something, but it's all trivia now.

So I call my MIL last night as I have not heard from her for a while. The conversation is awkward…she knows. We get into it.

According to MIL, STBXWW (first time I get to use that acronym) showed up at her house after work on the weekend…she was a mess. MIL described her as a broken woman, says she even admitted driving by our first house after getting my card and through sobs described how happy we were there once upon a time. She further went on about how her attempts to speak to me went ignored and all I showed her was a cold stoic exterior. She figures I have not changed and it only “proves” she did the right thing.

I got a bit of a blast from my MIL who went on about how I should have reached out to her and “let the love of Christ” come into my heart. She went on to say how I have to let go of my “bitterness”. I became a little angry as I felt she was justifying or at the very least, buying into my STBX’s justifications for having her affair with a MM. Of course that has nothing to do with our split, it was all about me.

I understand my MIL’s motivation. I’m sure it was very difficult to watch her only surviving daughter go through such a horrible range of emotions regardless of them being a consequence of her own poor decisions. One always grieves with their children.

I maintained my position on my insistence of NC before entering into a dialogue with my STBX. MIL called it an ultimatum. Call it what you will, it remains.

She went on to tell me that my STBX is involved with OM as she doesn’t’ feel married to me anymore. Hmmmmm, then why the reaction to my stated intention to divorce?

So now I wait for the papers to go to her lawyer to sign. I’m not sure her lawyer has contacted her yet. That may make it even more real for her.

I can’t say I feel any great satisfaction from her reaction. I don’t wish the pain I’ve felt upon her nor do I feel smug with a sense of “control” over the situation. I just feel sad that so much time has passed…that she may be too late. Am I surprised? Not so much. I remember reading in Private Lies that the WS almost always comes around and it often coincides with the BS moving on. Maybe that’s happening; maybe I’ll find a broken woman on my doorstep in a week or two. I’ll let you know.

Binder, I think your MIL has a point, believe it or not. Your stubborn silence probably comes across sanctimonious.

I don't think that the generic MB way is a very effective method of persuasion for men in our situations. I don't know if there's any effective method.

I keep bringing up four qualities:

Humility
Patience
Courage
Compassion

My theory: without a workable combination of these, a WW will not come back and make amends.

GC

Hi Binder,
I hope it's spring down in RMH and there abouts now.
I think mid May was usually spring in the big E.

She further went on about how her attempts to speak to me went ignored and all I showed her was a cold stoic exterior. She figures I have not changed and it only “proves” she did the right thing.

It looks to me like nothing has changed -
Tears mean nothing without a corresponding attitude adjustment.

You haven't said what you put in the note - but if you included the poem, it probably invoked the tears. Perhaps she did have regrets, but her mind quickly placed the blame for the bad feelings back on you - the fog hides a great deal when we don't want to see.


I got a bit of a blast from my MIL who went on about how I should have reached out to her and “let the love of Christ” come into my heart. She went on to say how I have to let go of my “bitterness”.

Christ often said:
"how often I would have gathered you , as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, but you would not."

MIL forgets the "would not" part.

Though I cannot read the mind of your WW, I believe that if you had talked to her, she would have yet another reason why it's your fault. I don't believe for a minute it would have changed things.


I became a little angry as I felt she was justifying or at the very least, buying into my STBX’s justifications for having her affair with a MM. Of course that has nothing to do with our split, it was all about me.

I think you should be blunt with MIL.
"I quit talking to her because the one I loved left me and started dating, and having sex with another man. The pain was too great, and I couldn't take it, so I quit talking to her, and told her that when she was ready to give the other man up, to tell me, and we might be able to work on things, but she NEVER DID. You can blame me if you want, but she started it by having sex with that other guy - that's called ADULTERY - and it's HER FAULT, NOT MINE. If you want to think it's OK that she did that, you can, but I DON'T, AND I NEVER WILL. "

As you can tell, she made me mad, and I wasn't even there.

I understand my MIL’s motivation. I’m sure it was very difficult to watch her only surviving daughter go through such a horrible range of emotions regardless of them being a consequence of her own poor decisions. One always grieves with their children.

Yes, and she probably hears DIL blame you every time she sees DIL. She wants so badly to believe it's not WW's fault, but still..............

I maintained my position on my insistence of NC before entering into a dialogue with my STBX. MIL called it an ultimatum. Call it what you will, it remains.

You may notice that God does that same thing. He doesn't say: "oh, go ahead and do whatever you want, and there will never be any consequences." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

So now I wait for the papers to go to her lawyer to sign. I’m not sure her lawyer has contacted her yet. That may make it even more real for her.

Keep it up with the poems, and love notes - and when she says "If you would have done this at first, I would have come back to you," you can say, "Whatever you say dear, but the divorce will be final in a few weeks, and you still haven't given up OM yet."

Maybe that's happening; maybe I’ll find a broken woman on my doorstep in a week or two. I’ll let you know.

I doubt it, as per above - she shows no signs of repenting, but is still blame shifting.

I wasn't kidding about the notes, but if you do send another, make it clear that you don't want to see her unless she will have no contact with OM, and wants to work on it 200%.

I don't know why I have any hope at all - maybe I don't. Do what is in your heart to do.
If you are done, don't drag it out.


Later edit -
I was writing mine while Graycloud was posting. Maybe his suggestions are the reason I said "Keep it up with the poems, and love notes."

SS

You may be right Gray, but I come by it honestly.

It is difficult for me to come across as warm and approachable, yet not feel vulnerable. I'm more disciplined than skilled and it's easier to "follow the rules" than ad lib.

I've not shut the door, but fear that letting her speak freely will simply get her to justify the situation...I can't hear that from her again. She is incredibly charismatic and socially gifted and can "sell" her position in an incredibly subtle and effective fashion. I've not closed the door completely, but need to see some humility on her part.

SS,

Firstly the weather is great now and spring definitely has sprung here and things are greening up nicely.

The note in its entirety: (thanks to FIM’s thread for the poem)

I shall miss loving you.

I shall miss the
Comfort
of your embrace.

I shall miss the
loneliness
of waiting for your
calls that never came.

I shall miss the Joy
of our comings,
and Pain
of your goings.

and,
after a time,
I shall miss

missing
loving
you.

I’m sorry for the mistakes I made in our marriage.
As I wrote you last July, the reason I won't speak to you is not out of anger, but pain. You, my wife, my lover, and the mother of my children choosing each day another over me and our family continues to haunt my dreams and break my heart.

The pain, though great, is a little less than yesterday, a little more than tomorrow. It is time for me to move on, WW, I'm divorcing you.

Love,

Binder


I was fairly blunt with my MIL and continuously reminded her of her daughter’s decision to “screw” a MM and break-up two families. She has lost her perspective somewhat.

Though I imagine the scenario of my STBX lying in a heap saying all the right things, I don’t imagine that reality will come to pass. If NC would be an insurmountable step, what about my insistence that she quit her job? She has not shown the substance required to do the hard work and make the sacrifices needed.

Thanks for the reply, I’m going to read it a few more times to absorb the message completely.

Please understand,

I am not telling you you ought to do thus and such.

Only giving you things to think about.

You have a fine mind, I think you will do it best in the end.

SS

I was fairly blunt with my MIL and continuously reminded her of her daughter’s decision to “screw” a MM and break-up two families.

The MM part shows that WW is totally in the wrong. I don't get MIL at all. Even if WW felt she was not in a marriage any longer, what about OM being married.


She has lost her perspective somewhat.

Massive understatement. AS you well know, it is usless to argue with someone that is able to think this way.

I always try to leave them without excuse though - and it sounds like you did.

There, I think I'm done now.

SS

Hi Binder -

I was saddened to read your description of your conversation with your MIL. Reminds me of my very last conversation with mine.

Hello, wall.

Very sad indeed.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

I am sorry to have to agree that your wife will not end up in a heap at your door. It will be someplace else, blaming you.

The fortress mentality will likely not be broken.

Suffice to say that if you had been more accessible, there just would have been more reasons and opportunities for her to blame you.

WAT

Binder, Hey. How are you holding up?

Your conversation with MIL is also familiar to me. I got a variation on that theme from Phil's mom. Dig it - she divorced when Phil was an infant because her H cheated! The memory didn't stretch enough to have compassion for me! Nope!

You should know and feel good about the example you are living - your posts here the past couple of days helped some things click for me. I won't threadjack, but will instead simply say - thank you.

You helped. You really did.
Sally

WAT

I fear you're right. I also doubt broaching the topic with MIL did any good for me or the situation.

Sally_Althelny,

Thanks for stopping in. I'm not intimate with your situation, but enjoy and am impressed with your willingness to "spike" your threads with your wit. I get a good laugh at myself and the mess I'm in on a daily basis. Life is too important to be taken seriously.

When STBX was about 5 or so, FIL ran off with another woman who bore him 2 daughters and subsequently left him and his daughters for another man again. MIL was an immigrant from Germany, had lost her 1st daughter to a heart condition after one week of life and now was abandoned by her Canadian husband in a country relatively new to her with no family support. She became mentally ill and was institutionalized. She knows what it feels like. Yet still.......

Must be that blood thing.

Having said that, MIL and her new husband have been by far the biggest supporters of the marriage and have done a lot to try and preserve it. I won't ignore that in spite of her present "skewed" perspective.

Binder,

That was a beautiful note. I have a feeling it will be read many times over by her.

She may not be able to face or own up to what she has done, this is true. And if/when she does it may very well be too late.

I can't help but feel sorry for these WS's when they do wake up, it's got to be one awful blow...the realization. I don't think I could live with it. May be better to keep from waking up, that must be their defense mechanism.

Sad.

So I admit it, I thought STBX might be coming around. Then, when my son shows up for the weekend he brings a new computer game CD, that wasn’t running well on my clunker puter…..he goes on ton tell me that mommy’s friend. Mr. OM helped him get it going on her computer just the other day.

I am incensed. Exposing my children to that mess she’s made is intolerable. I want to fire a new salvo and tell all his professional contacts what he’s doing/done. I see that he’s the poster boy for a large utility company here as they try to promote their corporate ethics with their contributions to the Air Ambulance service where he was a pilot/physician and met my WW, his subordinate. I left that exposure to OMW, but I don’t think she ran with it. I could cc the university he’s an assistant professor at as well as the college of physicians and surgeons. Would this allow me to restore the marriage…….no….don’t want to right now. It is borne of vengeance and an attempt to strike him that is exposing filth to my children. WAT, Bob Pure, SerindipiT and the rest of you wordsmiths….I may have a job for you.

This drove me to finally take off my wedding band. I’m disgusted with this woman.

Sorry to hear this is still going on Binder.

I eventually reached a point where I decided that both WW and OM with morally lost causes and I that I should expect the worst from them... I then moved into "work on the kids" mode.

I saw it that it was obviously my responsibility to teach the kids honesty and morality so I started trying to make sure my kids were armed and prepared for the crap WW and OM where going to deliver. I had many revenge thoughts and some that even kind of frighten me now!

But after a negative response to one of their "outings" from the kids I haven't heard that OM has been around, although I suspect he is still in the picture. I know they say your not suppose to say negative things about your childs mother, which I agree with, but IMHO you also shouldn't portray that you have turned a blind eye to immoral behaviour. Its definitely a tough line to straddle...

Hang in there Binder! We're all here rooting for you.

Miker

Yep, Binder - I know how you feel. I have to deal with the same crap everyday - my son around a liar and a cheat every day - two of them. Married in a Catholic ceremony and creating the facade of a wholesome family. Sickening.

I recommend you rant and rave here all you need to - but leave any potential actions against OM undone, assuming you are pursuing the divorce without delay. It is very tempting vengence to cause him discomfort. But it's vengence unless by doing so you have reasonable hopes of isolating your kids from him.

I wish I knew what to say to make it seem fair, but I don't. My approach has been to be the best Dad I can be and by doing so, by default being a LOT better role model than either OM or the WS can ever be. These are bad people and sooner or later, they will be exposed for what they are via their own deeds. They don't need our help. By doing anything in this regard, we only provide for them a ready excuse for anything that doesn't go their way. In my case the OM's former wife continuously attempts to make life unbearable for the infidels yet in the process unwittingly provides a easy scapegoat for all things evil.

Eventually, my son will realize all the meanings and appreciate me for what I provided for him - integrity and honor. Your kids will, too.

WAT

Hiya Binder,

Just thought I would check in and I am sorry to hear things are still as they are.I cringe when I think about our kids being with these OP.GROSS.My WH still hasn't even mentioned this homewrecker to my kids and doesn't talk at all about her to the family.Wonder why?

My WH knows I am a,shall we say,spirited? woman and will not take it sitting down if indeed he does try to insert this person into my girls lives after the D goes through once and for all.All I can say is he better prepare for the nuke to go off.LOL

Anyway,it's too bad in a sense that you didn't expose the OM at the get go but now it may not do as much damage to him I think.Maybe.I do think you should bring him to his knees.How,is the next step(evil grin).The OM has no business being around your son.

Well,just wanted to know that I am praying for you.the kids and the folks here.Hope you will stay strong~

O

Mker,

If I recall correctly you are a Canuck with full custody of your children. I wish I could do the same, but I don’ see a way to do so. My STBX would fight the entire process and I have little chance of establishing a sole parenting regime. If you have any tips I’m all ears.

WAT,

I know you situation and admire your restraint. I will consider your point of view. My alternative, besides passive objection, is violence involving OM. Such thoughts are fun to entertain.

Octobergirl,

Glad to see you back. I missed the “moral compass” of MB and your direct approach. I wish I had better news for you regarding my situation, or heard better from you. I have little recourse as stated, If I thought a verbal confrontation would improve the situation I would participate, but apparently I am to be dragged along by her whims regarding the emotional well-being of the children.

I just finished a few 15 hour days at work. I’m knackered. See you all in the morn.

Hi Binder,

You are correct that I am a Canuck. Although we have "joint legal custody" of the kids I have primary care meaning they live with me full time and have visitation with their mother.

As far as tips, my outcome was purly a negotiated agreement. I don't think I would have a hope of getting the same deal if we had fought it out in the courts. I would suspect the courts would have given us 50-50 if WW had wanted it.

The key for me was at the time my WW didn't want the responsibility of caring for the kids... this was also a problem I had with her at the end of our marriage (prior to the A). So I just had to get it formalized in writing.

If your WW wants to take care of the kids I think you will have a tough time getting more than 50% these days unless she agrees to it, or else you can prove some sort of abuse. I didn't have to go to court but my impression is that courts in our region are favouring 50-50 custody arrangements these days.

You may want to consult a family law lawyer if you haven't already as they should be able to give you a better indication of what the pulse of the courts are these days.

Good luck. If there is anything I can do to help. Please give me a shout.

Cheers,

Miker

OK...advice needed....I just found a card in the mailbox. I know it's from WW. I don't think it's an attempt to reconcile, no actions consistant with that. Likely a bunch of "This is not about OM" schlock. It's presently unopened. If I give it back, do I send a note with it? What say ye?