After a semi-brief struggle (and a long period of marital unhappiness for my W), I reached the point where I asked for a divorce this morning. My W (Win Bin) and I had been posting our troubles in the Infidelity ---> General Questions forum, and we had been in counseling, but it became obvious last night that she is not going to give up her flirting with men on the internet. She left some things open on her computer and I found out three things that finally tipped the scale...firstly, she was getting ready to go back to having phone sex, something she had promised to stop doing. Second, she had finally reached the point where she was ready to meet OM #2 in real life for sex. And third, and worst of all, she confirmed in an email something that I have suspected all along...that's she planning on leaving me as soon as the school year ends. She wants to wait until school is out so the kid's work won't be effected this year.

I was expecting to be angered, or shocked by reading these things. But a sense of contentment, almost bliss settled in instead. I had known for awhile that things weren't really working out, and I had kind of known that there was going to be no way around the wall of resentment she had built towards me. She's been miserable because she wants to flirt and make love to other guys and not be tied down anymore to a man she stopped loving years ago. I've been miserable because I still love her deeply, and I tried so hard to change to be more of the man I used to be, the one she fell in love with. But it was too late, and I guess there's a certain satisfaction that sets in when you finally realize that and let go.

We have a lot of work ahead of us. We need to do some fix up work on the house so we can sell it. We need to work out living arrangements. I need to decide if I'm going to stay here and live in a [censored] apartment, or chuck it all and go back east to live with my folks. Neither decision is appetizing, but those are the only options I can think off. I feel really bad for my kids, who are the sweetest, smartest little tykes and really deserved better in parents. It's always the little ones who have to suffer the stupidity and selfishness of the "grown-ups".

Anyways just wanted to dip my feet in on this board. I'm going to be posting a lot here to vent the feelings that will be coming up as I deal with this. I've been in this relationship for 22 years, since I was 16, and I've never broken up with anyone before. Dating looks like an impossible minefield from here, but I will eventually venture out there again, simply because I need to have someone in my life to share it with. But first the baggage from this mess needs to be cleaned up and dealt with.

Any cute single girls out there in So. Cal. interested in a monogamous man who makes a good salary and cleans the house without being asked to? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

So, the W comes to me yesterday afternoon and says "you win". She doesn't want to get a divorce because of the children. I hate the fact that she spins my finding out what she was hiding from me on her emails/chat into me trying to control her. She always brings up my past behaviour when I call her on her current behavior. But I'm sick of her using that tactic, and I told her she was just spinning. Yes, my behavior in the past (excessive videogaming, long vacations with friends) was destructive to the marriage. But I've stopped those things...she has not yet made any effort to stop the chatting and flirting.

It frustrates me to no end, because she's always complaining that I never give her time to get over her withdrawal from OM #1. Last night I asked her how the hell she expected to ever START on withdrawal if she keeps chatting, meeting more men, and giving all the feelings we need to have in between US to these random guys. I told her we need to review Plan A again and she needs to stop chatting, so that she can get on with her withdrawal and we can then start really working on us again. It's so frustrating that we are worse off at three months than we were after D-day. It's like all the sh*t we've been through has been for nothing. I also called her on the fact that she is using chat as a passive-aggressive way to get back at me...she does this harmful stuff to the marriage, then accuses me of controlling her for not letting her chat. Therefore, she gets to fulfill her needs, AND she gets to put me in the bad guy role just because I don't want her to chat. It really sucks and this emotional abuse is unfair!

What hurts the most is that I think she does still have some feelings for me, but there are so many issues piled up in her head I don't know if she'll be able to come back to me before something irreversible happens and the marriage goes beyond saving. I want to give her the time she needs but she refuses to do her part. She said last night she would stop chatting, but it was through clenched teeth, and I know that if she wants to keep doing it she will keep doing it, despite what she tells me. But I still love her and I'll probably keep giving her chances until she either straightens out or has a PA and I find out about it. I wish I had some resources to provide to her to help her stop her chat/men addiction.

This is at least instructional, because I see how selfish I was when I was commiting my destructive behavior. I don't ever want to do that to her again now that I see how much this hurts.

/vent

Hi B.

Your wife sounds like she has some serious self esteem issues. Has she ever been to any individual counselling?

I wish I had more to offer you, but I don't. I just saw the title of your post and it wrenched on my heart. I'm so very sorry.

How are your children dealing with the tension in your marriage?


~ StillLovingHim

SLH - My wife and I are in MC, and I am in IC for my issues. I think she does need IC, but we haven't really talked about it. Our MC has figured out that she has a lot of issues to work out, and she's going to start meeting with her solo one week and then with both of us the next week. I'm hoping that will help.

I'm not sure if she has self-esteem issues or not. Her main issues appear to be anger with me, dissatisfaction with our marriage, along with an addiction to chat and a need to be with other men, since we've only been with each other. I know there's some family issues too, mainly with her dad; the counselor has been going into it but it's still a little cloudy to me in terms of how much effect it has on her. If I listen solely to my W's words, I'm the only cause of misery in her life.

The children are still pretty out of the loop. We are not yellers and we go behind closed doors to have our discussions. I know the kids notice that, and I think our son was a little peeved about it yesterday, since he was acting out like crazy. I think my daughter is also a little aware things are not right, because she has become very close and "snuggly" to me lately. We discussed telling the children about the D when it was "in play" over the weekend but she agreed that she would stay in the house until school ends (mid-June) and that we will not tell the kids anything until then. I have no idea how they are going to take it. I suspect my son will be seemingly unaffected, but it will show up down the road in some sort of behavior...not exactly sure how it will manifest, he's a strange bird, much like his dad. ;-) I know my daughter will be utterly crushed, and that's the blow I fear the most. I don't want to let either one down, but she is much more emotional and fragile. She's the one the W and I worry about becoming a teenager. ;-)

I don't know, I don't want them to ever know anything was wrong. I want to repair our marriage and be the parents they need us to be. But I refuse to live with an adultress, or in a marriage without love. It just sucks waking up each day and having your first thought be "sucks to be me", ya know?

B,

Wow some of what you write sounds a little bit too familiar to me. I don't really have any wise words to say but try to not get too frustrated & keep on with the MC and hopefully things will turn around. Sounds like there is hope so don't give up!

Cheers,

Miker

So the W and I are back on Plan A, I guess. She hasn't gone back to review the pertinent SAA chapters yet, but I have. And now I'm depressed again. I feel that the success or failure of our Plan A relies on two things: me reining in my selfishness in wanting her to get over withdrawal faster, and her staying off chat so that the withdrawal can actually start.

As for the former, it's very hard for me. I have worked to improve myself but I'm noticing that I get down if she doesn't encourage me. And there's no encouragement coming from her, as she is deep in depression and also is pretty hostile towards me at times. I should be able to just understand that and find reinforcement within myself. It's a struggle within...I've always been very pouty and needy, and I just need to get over myself. And it doesn't help that the paranoia bugs are running around inside my head, due to some major trust issues with her. Whenever she blows another promise to me via her chatting, then I lose the control I have to work so hard to maintain, and she just gets another reason to blame ME, when it's her actions causing the problems!

Which brings up issue 2: her promise to stop chatting. To put it plainly, I don't believe her. I know that she will keep from doing it when I'm around. We even agreed last night to tell each other exactly what we will be doing if one of us needs to get on the computer. But she makes every promise not to chat through clenched teeth, and she's now taking to making remarks like "watching TV is getting boring", and "we don't have to spend all our time together". Well, according to Plan A, we do. We need to come up with more things to do at night that don't involve the computers, but, other than reading, I can't come up with anything. I also know that she can still chat at work, and additionally, she will probably be jumping on every chance she gets at home when I am not there. This is a major freakout source for me as I'm going away next week for 10 days, so I know she's not going to have any willpower once I am out of the house and 1/2 way across the country. She has once again changed her passwords, and I'm just too certain that she will be going right back to her secret life sooner rather than later.

I guess my fear does tie into the controlling nature of my personality. I want her to stop chatting so that she can work on her withdrawal and we can eventually work on us. She just interprets that as me making demands and me rushing her along. I can't make her see that I'm only asking her to do this because otherwise we are going to fail and we are going to get divorced, and she told me she doesn't want to do that to the kids. She spins everything into me being the bad guy and it just makes me want to give up at times. She can't seem to see that her self-destructiveness and lack of willpower is doing as much to ruin our marriage as my selfishness did.

Ugh...sometimes I just want out of this nightmare, but I helped to create it and there are no easy outs. I can't believe that the sweet woman I married has become a liar, filled with contempt for me, and with a massive depression clouding her usual sunny disposition on top of all of it. It's so tempting to just tell her she "wins", I give, and it's over. But I don't want to do that to my kids, and I still love her. I'm a fool for still loving her, but I know I will be getting over that if this goes on for another year. I really understand that about Plan A/Plan B now. I know that the next time I find her chatting/doing phone sex/planning a meeting I will be insisting on Plan B and that she move into her mom's house. And she's too stubborn right now to give up her men. Ugh, love is not worth this.

/vent

Boy - Your post makes it all sound soooooo easyyyyyyy.
It's like you have come to terms that your WW wants SF from many other men...How can you accept this and write so w/o anger???? I don't think I'll EVER get over the fact that my WH is having SF w/many MOW. I am ashamed of him....that he lies to me, them and mostly to himself...

What is wrong w/these people??? Have they no morals????

Your WW needs a good kick in the pants - whether you D or not - she is going to raise your children - they deserve to learn that a monogamous relationship is the "better way". My WH has 2 now grown children - but, his XW had a 13 year relationship w/a MM - what did this teach them???? His kids don't see anything wrong in the fact that he's cheating on me (yes, I'm only the step mother) with many MOW..,,That's scary....His D actually is friends w/one of the MOW and helps him plan his rendevous w/her...How's that for teaching your kids morals? right from wrong????

I hope you can keep your kids straight

Hugs

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> I can't believe she's asking for time to get over her "withdrawl" as she calls it from other men !

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> and again I say <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

My gosh man! Who does she think she is???

My WH was VERY selfish. The only day of the week he wasn't either at work, in the studio, or with his bandmates was Sunday, and sometimes he'd spend THAT whole day gaming.

But did I flirt with or sleep with other men??

NO !!!!

(And no, I don't look like a troll either so it wasn't for a lack of opportunity.)

Kind, caring, people here have reminded me that I don't need to put up with WH's crap.

And neither do you !! I'm not saying throw in the towel on your marriage, but good grief. She's gotta stop any contact with other men, seriously.

Any cute single girls out there in So. Cal. interested in a monogamous man who makes a good salary and cleans the house without being asked to?


p.s. You can do a lot better than someone who's not committed to you.

Too bad I don't live in Cali - j/k *wink*

Thanks, Tess. You put a smile on my face with that last one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

WW says--did he mention he was okay with the phone sex for a year, and knew about it, because it allowed him time to play video games while waiting for me to be ready to give him sex? Did he mention thats all that would get him off the pc? Did he mention he lied about how long his vacations with his friends were going to be because he knew that I would be pissed he was leaving the family for 10 days to ride roller coasters? Did he mention most of his vacation time was used for coasters and not his family? And that he didn't call for 2 days while he was gone? Did he mention it took 15yrs of marriage to finally get him to help around the house w/out being nagged? Did he mention he had a drug addiction for 10+ years of the marraige that I continually asked him to stop and finaly gave up asking?

NOt saying I am right, but there are 2 sides to every story. I have stopped chatting w/other men and am in withdrawl from the OM. I DID NOT SF with anyone, nor do i have plans to.

Sorry for infiltrating your post, i didnt want to do that.

WW

^Guilty of ALL of the above, Win. I should have put it in my post but I didn't want to re-hash it again. The whole story was originally posted here:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1

I have admitted my mistakes and I have apologized (repeatedly) for all of them. I have taken steps to fix these problems. As you know, I have quit smoking pot, I have stopped playing videogames, this next coaster trip will be my last, and I intend to call you every night when I am gone. I did not intentionally leave out the bad things I did, I was merely trying to avoid rehashing it.

All of the above does not mean I was the only one responsible for the problems in our relationship. We both know from MC that we both have problems with honest communication. Thank god we are now trying to work on them.

And no need to apologize for coming into my thread...I'm just glad you're talking. ;-)

Bass-

Win asked me on a thread over in the GQII section to chat with you about withdrawl and such. Not sure what advice I can offer offhand, but I personally DO agree with you about the need for ALL of the contact to end before you can do much on your M, and I've told her as much as well.


In fact, I've asked her to consider working out a PLAN for ending the contact...something that I get the impression that neither of you have considered up to this point. It's obvious that she doesn't have the self-control to make it happen on her own, based on what both of you have posted. So why not sit down and work out a way to MAKE it happen?

My thoughts are pretty simple. It appears that the majority of her issues center around the internet...so KILL the internet when you're not there. I can think of a few ways to do this, and this would be one way to prevent her from 'slipping' on the NC issues, at least via email and chats. Make it so that the only time EITHER of you are on the computer is when you're BOTH there...since the computer gaming was an issue for you. Also, setup monitoring on the phone use as well, to ensure that there are no further calls going on.

I'm of the opinion that part of the reason this has gone on for as long as it has is because you two haven't taken the EXTREME measures that SH recommends in establishing NC. And in this case, NC doesn't just mean with a specific OM...it means with ANY OM that she can chat with in an inappropriate fashion.

Just my thoughts. Basically, some way you HAVE to get the contact and bad behavior on both parts to END...and both of you need to go through the grief issues associated with that. THEN you can discuss next steps, such as divorce or reconciliation.

Well said, Owl. It amazes me how much you are able to get your finger on the pulse of our marriage, despite not knowing either one of us in real life. I really appreciate the things you are saying in the "on-line relationship" thread...I have been trying to say the same stuff but I think Win is dead set against doing anything I ask or recommend. She knows all she has to do is call me controlling or point out my past bad behavior and I will feel like a hypocrite and back off. But that's getting us nowhere.

I have mentioned to her in Email today that we need to sit down and read the Plan A section of S.A.A. together, and then write up a contract we will both agree to abide by and sign. I have also asked her (and she has asked me) to stay off the computer unless we are both on, and I think she will agree to that.

I think what Win wants me to work on is patience during withdrawal. I freely admit I have not been totally helpful to her in withdrawal, but I think she also now realizes that she hasn't really STARTED withdrawal. I know I need to work on her EN's and not LB while not expecting anything in return...but, in practice, I get lonely, I get scared, I have SF needs that I have to keep under wraps. So sometimes I blow it...sometimes I can blame her due to the ongoing secret life, but there are times when I get angry or make selfish demands and it's solely due to being impatient. I need to learn how to just chill out, treat her right, and wait for things to get better. It's hard when your emotions are tied up in this, and you don't know if you're going to lose your house and your family, but I need to do what's right, because I love Win and I would do anything if it would give me another chance at being in her heart.

Thanks for helping us, Owl. ;-)

I'd go one step further, Owl. Consider disconnecting internet service. Or allow Bassistist to put spyware on the computer that only he can access.

Win Bin, I'm actually glad you infiltrated the post. It's very easy for us to only hear one side of the story. While B said he had been selfish, that doesn't show how he helped create conditions that made your EA possible.

Tess, whether or not Win Bin asks for time to get over withdrawal, that's what Bassistist will need to give her unless he decides to get divorced. Withdrawal is real. Those who have been betrayed have a terrible ordeal to go through when they watch their spouse sad and depressed because said spouse can't have the OP. Not everyone can do it. And Plan A requires the BSs to handle it with grace, poise and kindness.

On the other hand, the WS is not going unpunished. They are suffering the loss of the OP, and in many situations, still sore from the LBs committed in the marriage prior to the affair.

I bet a lot of BS's feel like the slate should be wiped clean of their transgressions because "Nothing I ever did to you was as bad as what you did."

That's just not how it works. The WS still carries a lot of hurts too. And while we can judge some actions to be more wrong than others, it's very hard for us to judge how much a person was harmed by those actions.

FUN STUFF TO DO AT NIGHT...
Play games, things like Scrabble, cards or Apples to Apples.
Start a home project, like painting a room, finishing the basement, or putting in a container garden.
Exercise together, especially walking because you can be quiet or talk.
Double team your children and force them to tell you what they did in school. See who can make the children the most sullen by repeatedly asking them "So, what did you do today?"
Cook an elaborate dinner together.
Have phone sex with each other.

See its not so hard.

Post deleted by win bin

^oooooookay.

What'd I do? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Post deleted by win bin

Who will you be chatting with? Did you already have this last chat, or are you going to have one more?

I'm so confused...

Post deleted by win bin