Of course she has. She knows her butt should be toast, but she knows exactly how to play you. She will be sweet until this blows over, but nothing has changed.



I think the ONLY right thing to do is confront her, but handled correctly, not lashing out...





Do not make assumptions. Deal with the facts. It doesn't matter what he is doing or what his response is to her email.

And plenty of WS's have sex with their spouse while heavily involved in an affair. Having sex is not an indicator of the status of the marriage.



I think you are numb because you have done this for so long that it doesn't come as any big surprise. You have come to expect it.

The affair has gone on way longer than 40 months.

The fact is that your wife is still trying to maintain the relationship or affair with the OM.

You don't want to keep living like this, so what are YOU going to do?

Susan

Part of me wants 2 lash out at both of them, but I know that's not right

Lashing out with a weapon might be a little extreme but a few choice words might be in order.
Now you need to ask this question....might even be your own words.....

Do you want to be right or do you want to be married?

I've been a long time member of the Conflict Avoiders of Central Florida and what gets me is why I avoid conflict. At work I don't avoid conflict, hell, I almost seek it out, so it is/was hard for me to lump myself into the CA category. But in my personal relationships not a hint of conflict and if there was I just stuffed it and told myself I was bigger for letting it slide. Maybe that comes from low self esteem, that I think no one would care anyway...who knows.

The way my mind works, I always question things that don't make sense. I try and figure out why things are as they are and should they be different. What can I do to change the situation, what catalyst can I add before the situation becomes uncontrollable? But when it comes to conflict with people I care about, I freeze up and go into turtle mode.

I'm gonna parahrase from Douglas Adams in "Last chance to See".....

Humans, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from others mistakes are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.

I remember this only because I highlighted this book when I read it to bring a little levity (as well as some knowledge) and to pass time when my marrige was in the crapper.

Just my $.02

btw I loved the "dubbya tee eff"

God bless

Doug

2Long...you know that WW went so far as to say to me:

"Had you rather be right or be married?"

As the Grand Marshall for Conflict Avoiders of Georgia (nod to Doug), WW thought she could do anything, absolutely anything, and I would stand for it. And...for too long (pun intended), I did. This just fueled her entitlement mentality to let her know she could continue unchecked with whatever she wanted to do.

It was really her beginning the mantra of having OM + OMW live in our house that I think really pushed me over the edge. I saw that there was absolutely no limit as to what she would expect me to accept.

Sooner or later, 2Long, you're going to have to draw your proverbial line in the sand. You just have to decide where it's going 2B.

Georgia

2L,

Consider calling your coach about this development.

There currently is no motivation for your wife to end her ... how long is it now? .... 13-year affair.

My opinion currently is thus:

WW has long term depression issues as yet unaddressed

WW medicates her life with OM

WW does not love you the way you need to be loved because she believes love is not real, self-medicating is her answer

WW lacks courage and integrity to change in the absence of a motivating crisis

YOU .... do not love her enough to commit yourself to firm boundaries. Go ahead, make my day, argue with my last remark. You have permitted this slow leak of love to a dangerous minus level without creating a crisis

a nearly perfect match-up between you

the perfect storm

my prediction?

same time next year same situation same results

Your anger only serves to fuel your avoidance as far as I can tell... "Why try now. It's too late."

so sorry my friend

this is not your forte, I understand, but really .... why have you allowed your love bank to deteriorate before taking any decisive action?

Here's the beef ....

I wonder if you'd be OK with this level of sex,love, affection in your marriage today if there had been NO discovery of her affair? Ever wonder that? Take away the affair for a moment .... would you be just fine with the status quo?

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

2long, I can certainly relate to this. My d-day also approaching this time frame. I'm also CA and I suppose therefore an enabler. Don't have any 2x4's only loving wishes. I liken this to treating a cancer. We're doing longterm chemo instead of radical surgery. I had an interesting development last night that I'll post under Sideways Communication in GQ that underscores how very difficult it is for me to confront this situation. It's very sad and maybe you can take something from it.

2long,

I'm very sorry to hear about this. I don't know what to say. My sitch is sorta similar - just earlier in the game. I've got to make a move too. "Out" sounds good. FGG has shown us the way.

-AD

2long, what are you afraid of? Losing her? Winning her back? Making "waves?" I cam convinced that fear is your motivation for inaction. Why else would you avoid conflict?

Spidey

My recommendation follows.

Without informing your wife, secure one half of all jointly held liquid assets. Then have the following conversation:

2long: I saw your e-mails to RM and I was very disappointed. Disappointed in myself, mostly, for not previously having the courage to prevent further disappointments.

Mrs. 2long: (It doesn't matter what she says.)

2long: I will now be taking the steps necessary to prevent being disappointed again. I recommend you make whatever plans you deem necessary to prepare for dissolving our marriage.

Then see an attorney and start the process.

WAT

2long,

I am so, so sorry to hear this. I think I know at least part of what you are feeling.

I recently had a similar revelation wrt my W’s LTA and OM.

It’s one of the reason’s I’ve been kind of dark lately.

I haven’t figured out what to do about it either.

It’s like that movie Groundhog Day, isn't it.

Oh, the trip to West Hills is definitely off. I am not going anywhere for a while. Maybe we can get together later.

T

I 100% agree with WAT ...
Pep

You guys are great! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well, I can proudly proclaim that, this morning, I BURNED my Conflict Avoiders of Southern California (CASC) membership card! And, I AIN'T EVER going 2 fill out another membership form with that august group again!

We talked. She "knew" something was wrong yes2rday after I'd seen the emails, from how I was acting. But I wasn't ready 2 talk 2 her about it then. I told her this morning that I wanted 2 marshall my thoughts and let the rest of the day be as enjoyable as possible under the circumstances anyway.

She seemed rather reluctant 2 talk much about the R with RM at first, and I have no illusions that I have the "whole story" even now, but the gist of the sitch is something like this:

*she's been trying "to find out" if she can work with him on a professional level (but she said she missed him and wanted a fu2re with him in the email, which I pointed out).

*The meeting at her out of state property wasn't 2 spend personal time 2gether, but 2 have him look at another site in the area for his professional view (which is nonsense - he's not the only professional fish in the professional aquarium, not that I'd care if he was)

*She doesn't take responsibility for the breakup of his marriage (I won't let her off the hook for her involvement in it)

*She believes that I did not tell him, in the only email correspondence I ever sent him last year, that they couldn't communicate on work-related issues. Folks, I said, precisely: "permanently end all contact". What part of NO is confusing here?

*She is considering taking a job that her friend is vacating in the next few months. If she does, she will be manager of a project similar 2 one she hired RM 2 consult on at the previous job where the 2nd A started (or the first resumed, depending on the counting method employed), she will be in a position 2 decide on who does that consulting work for her. RM and another, female friend of hers have bids on the contract. RM's budget is half the gal's proposed budget. ...not good enough for ol' 2long. Even if the gal is slow in getting work done, she must be at least 2wice as efficient as RM. Nobody could be that incompetent.

She's sad and cried some, but is firmly sticking by her peculiar ethics. I'm sad, didn't cry some (2 numb), and I will stick firmly by what I believe.

*RM does seem 2 be avoiding her, unless she's better at deceiving me than I believe she is (good enough, as she is). But she did acknowledge that they have communicated "occasionally" over the past year.

My CA is dead, though! I think that's a big accomplishment.

-ol' 2long

Aphelion!

How are you dude!

Why not perihelion? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

CSue:

I will email cerrie sometime 2day (but I have a s2dent 2 work with most of the day, so it might not be soon).

I tried 2 send an email 2 counselor1 as well, a while back, but it bounced like the address is inactive. I'll try again.

-ol' 2long

2Long -

Don't let WW knock you off your track with her double-speak (or fogtalk, whatever).

She knows EXACTLY what she's doing. If it involves OM, it is unacceptable.

Period. (Not comma, not colon, not para break). Period.

Georgia

CSue:

I did talk about cerri's recent developments, 2, telling her all I know. She seems sad for cerri.

So, why can't she see the parallels in her own life?

-ol' 2long

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck...

Your wife continues to be is a lying WW. That is quite evident from what you have described as your conversation with her. I can't see that she respects you very much when she expects you to believe that load of crap she is shoveling your way. If you believe any of it then I am sure someone can sell you a bridge somewhere.

It is always hard to believe that our spouses are capable of being such skilled liars. I really dislike liars.

Bounderies... buddy. What do you want? What are you willing to live with?

You know that we all care about you.

I sent her this favorite 2uote of mine that Spacecase put on our iloveulove.com resources page: (most of you have seen this before):

"The Difference Between Secret And Private

Private matters are those traits, truths, beliefs, and ideas about ourselves that we keep to ourselves. They might include our fantasies and daydreams, feelings about the way the world works, and spiritual beliefs. Private matters, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, give another person some insight into the revealer.

Secrets, on the other hand, consist of information that has potentially negative impact on someone else-emotionally, physically, or financially. Secrets, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, cause great chaos or harm to the secret-keeper and those around him or her.

Private: I believe in reincarnation.

Secret: I have a wife and a mistress and neither knows about the other.

Private: I got terrible grades in high school.

Secret: I forged my medical degree.

The Difference Between Truth and Honesty

Truth is empirical, demonstrable fact. Your bank balance, today’s date, whether or not you’re married.

Honesty is about feelings. If you’re honest, you are open and clear about how you feel. You can be truthful without being honest and you can be honest without being truthful (the latter a little more difficult). The best relationships, stating the painfully obvious, are both truthful and honest. Trust is built on both truth and honesty, tempered by the proof of predictability and reliability."

-ol' 2long

And I told her this morning that I would appreciate it if she'd talk 2 me about any and all correspondence with RM. I don't expect her 2 comply, though.

At this stage, I still feel a great deal of unconditional love for her. At the same time, I've waited and worked at this long enough now that plan B would be the end of our M for me, no question about it.

We've got a lot of disentangling 2 do, financially and house-ly. For2nately, if any of this can be thought of in that term, most of our money is tied up in our property, so if she wanted 2 drain the accounts (and I really don't believe she would), most of our worth is protected by being tied up in our property.

She pointed out several times that she's stayed with me because she wants 2, that she doesn't want another romantic relationship with RM, and that she can control herself. I countered that she's tried that before, separated by 5 years or so, and that I'm 52 years old and have no desire 2 risk going through this again, especially when she can minimize the chances of it happening if she goes NC COLD 2RKEY.

-ol' 2long

She's got a friend in a similar line of work that's fond of talking about relationships. She asked my W how we are doing (allegedly doesn't know about her A, but knows RM and that they were "friends"). She also told my W that she knows people who've broken up, had other relationships, and gotten back 2gether in 5 years.

I think she's probing. Heck, I know it. While crying at one point, she offered 2 move away for a while after the teaching semester's over.

I can't stop her if she wants 2 do that. I really don't want 2, either. But I wonder what she expects I'll choose 2 do next month, when I was planning on spending a week at her OOSProperty while she's teaching volunteers. I'm still thinking of going, but I might not, depending on what I decide 2 do about this new d-day nonsense.

Separating and maybe getting back 2gether in 5 years, though??

I will be long "moved on" by that time, and I think she knows it (I'll have 2 cogitate about whether I said that during the convo. I think I did).

-ol' 2long