I have an opportunity to make a drastic change. My thoughts are confused and I don't know what is right anymore. Please read, consider and advise?
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My friend Ed will be visiting (from abroad) in a couple of weeks. He has wanted to take the older dog home with him (since I’m a wreck and still no closer to being secure with my home, or any home at this point) and I have resisted this because I love my dogs and want them with me. I can’t help but feel it’s time for me to be less selfish. It seems unlikely that I will be able to keep this home or find a new home where I can keep a dog. I don’t really know what else to do. If I loosen my strangle-hold, there are pros and cons…

Pros:
I will not have to worry about them being well cared for and well loved
I will not have to worry about providing a home for them
I will not have to worry that the quality of life is bad for them with me as I am so unhappy

Cons:
I worry that the separation from each other and from me will be very bad for them
I will miss them terribly.
I will have to resign myself to never getting them back
I will (and already do) feel like a failure for not being able to take better care of myself-my life so that I could keep them

This is not what I want but I am out of options. I can’t manage the responsibilities myself. I need help. The reality for me is that there is no one who can help me (or in Phil’s case, is willing to help me) keep my home and my dogs. Ed made this offer after Phil left and I couldn't bring myself to let go. Phil was very much against it. This was at the end of March BEFORE I found out about A and before Phil decided to sell our house in order to sever all ties with me…

Thoughts? I’m so lost. It probably seems silly that I would be so upset about losing my dogs. I can only say they are my only family. They are what I have and I don't know if holding on is right.[/color]
Sally

HI, (((Sally))). I am not one of the ones that you called out for. I so understand. And, I can't give you advice. Only tell you what happened with my sitch.

I had to sell our house and I knew that I would not be able to keep 2 dogs. So, I searched and searched for a good home for the older dog 12 year old. The younger is a purebred and not good with kids and I would not trust him with anyone else. I could not find a home for the older one. So, after trying for MONTHS to find a home for her, I had to surrender her to the SPCA. BUT, I made sure that they had a no-kill policy. I am still heartbroken. But, like you, I had no option. However, when I looked for my new residence, I made sure that they accepted pets.

But, on the other hand, I don't think that trying to keep the dogs is selfish. You love them. They love you. It makes no difference that you are unhappy. Would you turn your back on them if they were unhappy? They are there for you. I am sure they make you feel better if only for a little while. They are a constant. They won't hurt you. IMVHO, that is exactly what you need.

As far as the sale of the house, how can you WS sell the house out from under you? What does your lawyer say? Is there a support agreement in place? In my agreement I had to include all of my expenses. And that included pet care, food, medical, etc. And my WS is responsible for 75% of the costs for that as his salary is 3 times mine. Including counselling. Are you seeing an IC? IMHO that is a MUST. At the very least, you will get an impartial view of your sitch and some tools to cope.

It is probably different where you are as I am in Canada, but it doesn't hurt to ask your lawyer.

Hi Sally - I'm not sure how to answer this, but I'll try.

My first reaction is that Sally should spend more brain power doing something about Sally.

Don't get me wrong - I love dogs, have one myself, well, sorta. (I acquired sole responsibility of the family dog.)

Don't worry about the dogs. They will be fine. Take up Ed on his offer. Sounds like a good guy.

Take advantage of this sitch by "consulting" with Phil about it. Ask him what he thinks - since you know he was against it previously. This time, though, it's one of the consequences of his decisions. You'd prefer not doing this, but what other choice do you have?

As for you, life changes are, well, a fact of life. Some are not entered into willingly, but this doesn't mean they aren't for the better.

Happiness is a choice. Choose to be happy. Sometimes getting to happy means a momentary step in a direction that is not immediately happy. An investment.

Hope this helps a little.

WAT

hmmmmmmmmm

How close to your granny do you live?

Is she in her own home?

Pep

Pep - My granny is in assisted living. Alas, no pets allowed. Assisted living sure is looking good to me though! :-)

FightingAlone, I could never have been strong enough to do what you did. I'm mush just thinking of giving my dog to a very good friend. You were very brave.

WAT - I'm working on myself but I'm barely making it through lately. I feel like I'm out of options about most things. I am thankful that someone wants the dogs.

I'm not sure I can handle any more loss. I'm not being dramatic - I think I already reached my breaking point and I broke. Being responsible for the dogs by letting go is me trying to do something different but I really don't know if I can handle losing them.

Sal

Sal
I not sure that letting go of your dogs is the best thing to do for you. I so understand how they are your babies though ..they love UNCONDITIONALLY ... for me I would hesitate. First I'd want to see if I could get a place with my dogs, maybe your friend Ed could take the pups when older ???? option????
The older dog I'd have trouble giving up.
When I was falling apart, H had trouble looking at me without puking, DS wouldn't look me in the eyes, DD was so angry said she hated me... our dog just came up and put his head on my knee ..it got me through a few tough moments.

I'd suggest you look for a good place to rent, get all the support & finance stuff sorted though first, some real estate agents specialise in renting homes that allow pets ..any in your local???
Remember place doesn't have to be big just have a secure yard for the dogs
Only do it if you have to or you feel its right for you is my advice. Maybe make it part of agreement to sell that WS has to help find place with a yard for you & dogs ??? DOn't know if practical but a thought... he can't sell if you do not agree or unless a court order on assets is made.
In the end you need to do whats right for you Sal

AW, that unconditional love from the head (and the rest of the dog!) in the lap is all that is keeping me alive some days.

In his eagerness to get rid of me, Phil has been looking at real estate listings... he admits that the pickings are slim and and also does not think renting is a fair alternative even if there was a place willing to let me rent with dogs, or one dog. It's just the two, older and younger eight and *ulp* four? Where did all of those years go?

I don't think any of this is right for me. I'm lost in all of it and just when there is the smallest bit of good feeling from a small step forward, I go hurtling miles back. Today I'm afraid to even try talking to Phil about anything. He's 90% alien and I don't think I can handle it today.

Sally

Is there palamony in your state?

I vote you keep your canine family with you ... you seem to need them for their tail-wagging therapy and support of their soulfull eyes.

See if you can't find housing where your dogs are welcome.

Pep

Hi Pep, No, it's a definite no to palimony here. Other assets are arguable but realistically, my head isn't healthy enough to deal with that right now. I'm not copping out - just trying to take things one step at a time while I have the option to do that. I need to breathe and think and get out of panic mode.

My need for companionship was why I held on 'til now. WAT's points are what my internal, unselfish, dispassionate (WAT I'm talking about me and NOT you!) thinker sees. But the freak-out over being so totally bereft and alone is a killer. Even when my last near relative died so many years ago, I didn't wind up losing my dog too. I know this is different and circumstances are different, I am really panicked over this whole cast-out, cast-away unwanted reality.

Sal

I faced my fear and called Phil to ask his opinion. He wasn't there so I left a message. :-( I gave him the choice of talking or e-mailing -- I don't want him to feel pressured (still trying to do a decent plan A). I guess I'll see if he calls me back...

WAT? Pep? You there? Ed sent Phil a letter btw. I think it was good. Wanted your opinions but didn't want to be a PIA...

Sal

Talked to Phil. He was on his way to the city. Won't be back until Wednesday.

He doesn't even want the younger dog. Doesn't want the burden or the hassle. He'll take the dog if I can't handle keeping him but doesn't want him. He definitely doesn't want both dogs because he doesn't think he can provide a good home for both. He said he doesn't really love or miss the younger dog or having to take care of him but that he knows he would be able to love him and provide a good home if I can't keep him.

This cannot be my Phil... My heart twisted and I lost my temper (inside) listening to this and outwardly said that the reason I wasn't able to keep them is because he insists on selling my house. His response was that it was our house. We shared it equally and that his half wants to sell the house and my half could go get a job and somewhere else to live.

So I argued. Well, if you can call it arguing. I said that I've been looking for a job and a place to live and that I wanted to hear his opinions and discuss options with him before we hit emergency levels. I didn't tell him Ed was visiting. I didn't want him to feel pressured. He suggested that he would be willing to give it more time -- until we sell the house. Maybe until winter.

It's so crazy. He puts so much pressure on himself. These conversations are brutal. He is angry at me that we have to have them. He started saying he wanted to get off the phone because he had that angry feeling and it wasn't good and so I said OK. And then before I could say bye he kept talking. He said we could never talk about anything.

So I argued again. I said it is hard to talk about tough stuff and that I don't feel good talking about it either and I would rather talk about fun stuff or do fun stuff or just have a good time. I said I was doing my best to accommodate him and get out of his life as quickly as possible because it seemed that is what he wants.

So then he said he didn't think we could do anything because it always hurts him when we talk. Then he said that we should be able to talk about difficult things without feeling upset. I said OK and perhaps he could give me an example of how to discuss difficult things without feeling upset. He said he didn't know anybody that did but that he was sure everyone else could do it but us. HE WAS SO angry!

Then he said he needed to be able to plan when we would talk because when I call, I'm just ready to talk and he isn't ready like, this time he was sleeping on the train. Also he just doesn't want to discuss difficult stuff at all. So I said OK, that I would be willing to make a plan to discuss difficult things because we had to discuss them sometimes, and then I asked him if he also wanted to plan to discuss fun happy things.

Get this -- His response was that he had to check his calendar because he had all kinds of plans and he knew he had things to do but had to check his calendar first and he didn't have his calendar with him. He went on to say that he was busy this weekend and then busy next weekend and then busy the weekend after that. I said OK.

Then I guess it occurred to him that I hadn't actually said anything else. He asked me what I had in mind for fun. Since that wasn't really my question, I said I think seeing a movie is fun. He asked me when S_______ was coming out. I said the first show was midnight Wednesday. He said he would be too tired since he wouldn't be home until 9 and then he would want to spend the evening "catching up." Ahh, he needs to spend the first night at home alone reading sex-mail from OW that supposedly he doesn't see anymore.

So Phil says I can go see S_______ with you on Monday but knowing you, you probably don't want to wait that long before you see it. So I said yeah I would go see it before then. Then he said but knowing you, you'll probably want to go see it more than once. I said yeah, that's true too. So he said "I can go Thursday." and without thinking I said OK.

Someone shoot me please. We had this awful conversation. He said hideous things. Now we have a plan to go see Star Wars together on Thursday, which sort of has me wanting to kill myself all over again. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?!? Can I call him back and cancel? Is it me or is this so crazy? Or is it me? He wants to sell our house. He wants to go to the movies. He doesn't love our dogs anymore.

Where am I going wrong? ughh. When exactly did I turn into such an idiot? AND PEP? I know there has to be something you have to say about my temporary insanity...

Sal

Miss Sally -

Although you feel like you are totally bereft and alone, that will not always be the case. Try to calm down and do what you need to do. Right now, as WAT said, you need to work on you. All of this is miserable at first, but you WILL get stronger, and better.

I think Phil owes you. Please don't panic and settle for nothing. You should come away from this relationship (if it ends) in as good a place as he does.

As far as the dogs, (and I am a dog lover), I hope you will do the best thing for them. Yes, it will be hard to part with them, but knowing they have a good home will ease your anguish.

Sally, IMHO if you are in plan A then don't cancel. Just go to the movie and have fun. I know it is killing you. My WH told me that last year during his 2nd A, I was far more attractive than OW because I didn't argue, didn't push and allowed him to talk when he wanted to. OW OTH was demanding. IF...you want Phil back. If you don't then go ahead and cancel. Don't hurt yourself needlessly.

Sal you may claim temporary insanity if you wish ... that's allowed.

but I think Phil is weird from the way you describe him ... kinda cold and robotic ... am I wrong?

Pep

Sally,

You hang on girl. It's hard to read your pain, but a lot of us have come out the other end of that same kind of pain and found better happiness, better love and better self-worth, with or without our SO's.

You will too. You are bright, kind and faithful so you have a great strength in you already.

You can do this. Stick to your plan until your already decided upon time line, so YOU know you have done everything you could have. One way or another you will earn your way out of this and find love again.

Yes, I want him back. I wish I knew what this character flaw was. Mine I mean. Why do I have a date with a guy who just said he wants to sell our house so that he doesn't have to have anything to do with me? And as a total aside, want/have/get him back or no, YES, he damn well owes me! And NO WAY am I settling for nothing.

Back to that bereft thing. Psychologically, and this is as plain and honest as I can be, lacking ties to anyone, anyplace and potentially having no ties even to my dogs is -is -it is so horrible I just don't have words for it.

Yes, I am doing my utmost to do a good Plan A. I am working on improving myself. I am trying to be sane and failing. Trying to be upbeat and WHOA! I'm really failing there! Talk to me -- is this really normal Plan A stuff??? And if it is, does that mean I am maybe not failing??? Does that mean it isn't as bad as it all seems? Because it seems so -- I don't know. How is it that we went from arguing to having a date? I was on the phone with him and I still don't get it.

Sally

Pep, I have been questioning myself, my motivations, my choices, and yes, my sanity almost every day since especially on the bad days where I don't want to exist anymore because that would be preferable to feeling like sh*t. I am so hostile to Phil's saying that I am crazy a month and a half ago and I haven't healed from that, but man! What if I am crazy?!

Your robot description is dead on when he does the angry detashment thing. Even during the same conversation he is in and out of normal sweet loving Phil to what you described, cold and robotic. The robot kicks in when he is angry or frustrated and then he has to fight it or give in to it. I guess today he fought it.

He started off the conversation with a loving Hey baby, how are you? I'm headed to the city... I was so startled by his carefree tone (one I haven't heard in a while) I thought he must've thought he was talking to OW. If the call had been to ask him out on a date instead of discuss difficult house/dog/life stuff, it's quite possible there would have been no robot. It's also possible I might have breathed in an annoying manner and gotten the robot.

So yeah -- he IS acting really weird. Not crazy weird but still weird. I thought it was the "alien" think other people keep talking about but You sound like you have experience with something I don't??? Go ahead and say what you think - you can't possibly offend me (unless you feel insist that I am crazy) and maybe you can help if something has your head thinking??

Sal

believer, faithful and weaver,

I'm breathing in and out. My folks and brother are loving me wherever their spirits are, I know they understand when I say I have NEVER felt this bad in my life! I have never been so abused - the words, the neglect, the taking of EVERYthing, the rejection, the loss of friends and it's still not enough. Sometimes I think he wants me even lower.

I used to be happy. I used to be feisty. I used to have spirit. I used to jump out of planes G*ddammit! Now I feel beaten. I want ME back. Whether I have Phil or not, I want ME back and I need someone to tell it to. Not a shrink, a regular human. It's hard for me to stay on track with anything with no one to tell and this is the most important track of my life!

Sal

Are you on A/D's Sally?

Maybe you should get your ducks in a row and go to Plan B sooner than July 4th.

What do you think?

OW is in the city to be with Phil for this conference he's speaking at... There will be other people from his business there. DOES no one care?!? IS everybody all right with people cheating?

No, I am not on a/ds. I don't think that drugs are the right thing for me now. I need to trust that any crazies I've got are legit. and not drug-related and not a result of messed up head shrinking. I need to rely on me as is. Yes, yes! Plan B would be a blessed relief but I haven't done Plan A yet :-( so it doesn't seem like it would really be Plan B and besides which, he is still lying about his A w/OW. STILL! Why lie? I don't get it.

I wish I could talk to OW H. He'd think I was crazy too though. Why is he letting his wife go to this thing? I really want to know. Has anyone talked to OP S and managed to get them to understand that you're not crazy? And at the same time not rat you out that you spoke???

Sal

ps - trying not to have ANY mind altering stuff that isn't food. so trying not to drink alcohol or caffeine as well. Trying to be very good about not eating stuff I'm allergic to. I'm pretty much trying to do what my mom would tell me to do if she were here... But then if she were here, she would pour me a a cup of coffee, throw in a shot of Grand Marnier for good measure and we would eat flourless chocolate cake and she would tell me how it was gonna be...

Imaginary projections of conversations with my dead mother... :-) Now how come that seems somewhat healthy and not remotely crazy? Odd perhaps, but not insane...
Sal