Just wanted to clarify something. I exposed the A before, did Plan A, Plan B, then ended Plan B when NC established, then NC broken and A restarted.

So, I'm setting out once again what I need us to do to have a great M (NC, etc). If H doesn't agree, then I go back to the darkest Plan B and let the D proceed (I can't stop it anyway). We will probably be D'd soon.

If I have to go back to Plan B, do I bother to expose again, or is that only when WS is cake-eating/hasn't left/filed yet? Once WS makes a decision (yet again) that WS won't work on the M, does exposure look like bitterness rather than an A recovery tool?

I counseled w/ SHarley this AM and we had so much to talk about, but I'm pretty sure he said exposure only for fence-sitting WS, not one who has already been exposed and still chooses to have As. Did I get that wrong?

Thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Butter:

I would say that this is correct.

I would agree that once really exposed, no need to expose again - fence sitting or not. The exposer would appear to be merely harassing.

WAT

does it make a difference that A stopped, and then started again a few months later?

It might.

The way to consider whether more exposure is useful, in my opinion, is to consider the mechanism of exposure itself - revealing secrecy to those whom the affairees want the affair to stay a secret.

It's very likely the affair never really ended. A pause at best.

If for some reason folks who were previously informed about the affair, but have subsequently believed the affairees ended it and "straightened up", then exposing to them again might be beneficial - especially if the affairees made huge efforts or promises to "come clean." An example might be that if two affairees conducting their affair in the workplace were busted again - after having been given a chance to end it by the employer - another round of exposure could be significant.

But if more exposure would roll off like water off a duck's back - no need to bother. The Mothership is firmly in control.

Pretty simple, huh?

My recommendation to you - bleed him dry. Take no prisoners. Fleece him for a much as you can get.

WAT

Thanks, WAT.

I am not entirely sure, but I think that her parents (or at least her father?) were digusted w/ her dating & sleeping with a MM and bringing him to their home for dinner w/o telling them that he was M'd. (I think the mother knew.) Anyway, the problem is that I'm not sure if they accepted it (as many do, sadly) from the beginning or what they thought. I can only guess as I wasn't informed of the complete fallout. There were several clues (including a recent clue) that led me to believe exposure had a big impact before and that it might do some good again.

How do I go about exposure the 2nd time around? I think she has now moved out of her parent's house. Also, I didn't expose the first time, other people wrote letters on my behalf (long story). Are there any legal problems w/ doing this if we proceed to divorce?

On a more personal note, may I ask how you were able to deal w/ the A situation -- I fully realize that you had a much more difficult situation than I do, so please excuse my inability to handle this well -- I'm just shocked and devastated that my H continues to hurt me and do what he admits is wrong -- I cannot comprehend it, or him, or her, or getting over it, or ever feeling safe/happy/loved/trusting again. Sorry to get off-subject. I think that my situation made R almost impossible because, unlike the couple in SAA, the WS held all the cards (house, $$, etc, etc), so I had very little leverage and my absence was easily replaced by gold-diggers and prostitutes (yes, literally prostitutes). Sigh... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like another round to her parents may be worth it. You could throw in the prostitute story.

I suggest the direct route - a phone call or a visit, if you know how to reach them.

Another way is to send copies of your Plan B letter with a personal note expressing your sincerity.

The way NOT to do it is in a vengeful and emotional manner - out to ridicule and shame.

I'd like to suggest some other considerations before you act. Along with this, I'll take a stab at your other question when I have a bit more time. Need to work on dinner............

WAT

Thanks WAT - I'll look forward to hearing your other suggestions. I think I will write down the points I want to make to her father and call him directly. I'll be nervous, but if I were the parent I would want to know so that I could figure out how to help my D.

By the way, please don't feel like you have to respond to my other question. I would like to know, but I don't want to bother you.

BS7 - Please do not consider my recommendations in isolation. Others may have ones that better suit your sitch - our perceptions are based on precious little and individually may be WAY off.

I recommend you evaluate your potential actions from here on out - including whether to expose some more - from the standpoint that you ought to hedge your bets. Divorce may be more likely than not and I suggest you not elevate your potential future relationship with your H - if divorce doesn't happen - above what seems reasonable to hope for.

In simple terms, this jerk sounds like a real loser. Prostitutes? Are you kidding me? What responsible man uses prostitutes? He could end up in the slammer at any moment, not to mention contracting HIV - if he doesn't already have it.

So I'm very sorry to deliver what you may not want to hear, but you ought to count your blessings that you have no kids with this miniscule man and run like hell to your attorney and bleed him dry. Get every cent you can from this [censored] and consider that you earned it.

So, if you decide to try some more to recover your marriage, make sure any steps you take - such as further exposure - does not in any way jeopardize your standing in an eventual legal setting. Consult your attorney about this.

I'll wait to see if you still want to hear any more from me about handling this crap personally.

WAT

WAT - you are correct, it's just a difficult realization and I still see the good in him. He has changed a lot - it's not just the As and prostitutes, it's his obsession w/ $, excessive drinking, and other things that were not there when we M'd. This is from the man who used to be so proud of his morals & ethics. He is so different, but I still remember the man I M'd and I still see glimpses of him now & again. So hope dies hard. Maybe that's why I'm having trouble processing this and dealing with the pain/loss/grief/etc, and I know it's much less than many people have had to deal with.

So, yes, I would greatly appreciate any advice you have on that subject and how to deal w/ things personally. Thank you!

BS7 - I’ll attempt a reply now to your earlier “coping” question.

After being a betrayed spouse and observing the stories of other BSs and WSs on this forum for almost five years, I can draw a few conclusions from that experience and those observations.

First, the easy conclusion that you have no doubt already read or deduced on your own. The actions and behaviors of WSs in the act are surprisingly similar - right down to the dialogue. Down right spooky. It’s as if there is a common pathogen that has infected them all. We know now, of course, that it’s the same alien abductors using the same brain experiments that explains the similarities. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As for BSs first discovering that they’ve become BSs, the initial reactions are pretty similar, too: shock, dismay, and frequently, denial. Life crisis depression is very common. But beyond the initial period, in my view, the similarities of BS’s actions and behaviors are far less striking than WS’s.

Some BSs overcome the initial reactions and settle down to follow their intellect rather than their emotions. Some don’t and remain in crisis mode. This seems independent from the “degree” of the infidelity. There have been more than a few BSs come to this forum and remain in a panic long after the WS “folds” upon d-day and instantly becomes the model FWS. They never seem to get to the non-emotional state. In contrast, there have been BSs - Lostva comes to mind - that have really, really tough cases in which the WS leaves the family and lives with the OP, yet they pretty quickly come to coping with their heads instead of their hearts. The rest of us cover the broad range in between. So, it’s apparent to me that the reactions and coping capabilities of BSs are very much individual and do not necessarily correlate with the relative “seriousness” of the challenge.

So my answer on how to cope boils down to seeking help for depression, then try as hard as you can to think with your head rather than react on your emotions. The best advice I can give to BSs is to realize - once you’ve absorbed all the information on this site about infidelity - that you know WAY more about what’s going on in your WS’s heads than they do - because of the common abduction <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> - and that this knowledge is power. This is the power to develop a plan, then work the plan, and correlate your WSs behaviors to the predictable patterns described by others here. And keep a good sense of humor. The antics of WSs can be extremely funny in a gallows humor sort of way. BSs successful at all this have WAY more control than they first realize, as reported by eventual FWSs.

Hope this helps.

WAT

Thank you, WAT. That does help. The emotions are a bottomless pit in my heart, but I will focus on my head and moving forward one step at a time.

It's interesting that you mentioned Lostva. I used to read and re-read her story because there were similarities between the way her WS acted and how my WH acts. It's my understanding that she never went into Plan B, but still was able to get the WS home. Based on your MB collective experience, do you think that there are certain WS who respond better to a long Plan A as opposed to the recommended PlanA/B? Was Lostva's case just unique? I'm thinking about this because I'm heading towards Plan B.

Thanks for your time & efforts to respond.

In my opinion, the variability with which both Plans A and B are implemented by BSs eliminates any possibility to use the plans as a control to determine how different WSs react. Too many moving parts. We can't slice it that thin.

I can say that most of those who do a real long Plan A - myself included - before finally going to Plan B regret not going to Plan B sooner.

The Plan B entry conditions I usually recommend are, implement Plan B if:

1. you've done a fair Plan A and have demonstrated your improvements to the extent you can to the WS, and

2. you're physically separated (living apart) and have secured the legal arrangements to prevent the WS from re-joining you against your will.

Note there's no time test.

This is just my opinion and does not match up exactly with the published MB guidance. It's based solely on anecdotal evidence from the descriptions of those who have gone before you.

Also, keep in mind that I'm divorced after attempting Plan A and B, so any advice I give is automatiaclly suspect. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT