It seems likely when you are mid-life dating (ugh am I really that old?) that you will encounter others with ex's.

Is it a red flag to any of you if the person you date talks alot about their ex? How much is too much? Is there some kind of indicator that would tell you whether or not they are "over it"?

I'm dating someone who has been divorced for over 5 years but still talks "alot" about his ex. It seems like we're having some big conversation about how wounded he is from all the evil she inflicted upon him every week. Not to disregard his suffering, but geeez, I'm getting a little tired of hearing about it. Not to mention paying the price on her behalf because he's now a commitment-phobe.

I really have no problem recognizing that this isn't a situation I'll stick with much longer. But it seems like something I will likely run across frequently with others in the future. Another post was about women blaming the length of time since divorce -- saying someone's not suitable because they've only been divorced X months or X years. I don't really think it has much to do with time, but more with the success of processing and recovering.

Personally, I rarely talk about my ex-H with anyone I date (other than the initial sharing of stories.) I might mention that Ex-H is picking up the kids or something trivial -- but I never feel the need to talk about him or what he did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Hey Lexx:

As my default is always brutal honesty; this topic has made for interesting "date" conversation a few times. (And you're right that the "ex" conversations do seem to surface now more than when we were younger!)

I do not bring up the "ex" topic until I feel the relationship has potential to grow. When we begin discussion about exclusively dating each other - I feel an obligation to discuss important issues. It's all about fairness to each other. If I'm going to open myself to trust - and be trusted; I want to know everything and want her to know everything; which allows us to make further decisions based on factual information. ["What am I getting myself into here". And conversely; "Before you get any closer, there are some things you should know about me..."] Each of us should then decide to continue moving forward, or take a 'wait & let me digest this' position, or possibly a "this is too much drama for me - thank you for being honest, I care about you, but I am not prepared to deal with this right now - or possibly ever".

And if my "date" asks about my ex on the first or second date; I usually just hit a few high spots, but always telling the truth. [We went through a tough time, some bad decisions were made that we were unable to work through...) If my date continues the questions - then I tell it to her straight with no sugar on top. Never disrespectful - just factual. And so far - it's worked out fine.

And then there are those who you suspect are deceitful from the beginning. Like the gorgeous (I mean GORGEOUS) woman who wanted to latch on at our 1st. date (lunch). I sensed a problem so I pressed. Turns out she was still married (told me she was divorced 2-1/2 years prior) and was also seeing another guy as well. So if it looks too good to be true - it probably is! Needless to say; there was no dessert after that lunch.

Hope this helps!

FR

Lexxxy,

3 words:

Run, Leia, Run. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />


TMCM

FR -- I like your philosophy, it seems very healthy. The lunch date sounds funny -- how did you finally get it out of her? Weren't you tempted to call her husband? I woulda...lol.

TMCM -- I am!!! LOL

She kept getting calls on her cell phone during lunch. I suggested that she excuse herself and go outside to talk to whoever was being so persistent (or shut the %@#$* thing off). She said she couldn't turn it off and couldn't talk to that person right now. Of course this seemed odd to me so I asked her how long she'd been divorced, who her attorney was, what was the situation with her kids (who supposedly lived in Boston) and pretty she soon began to get flustered. I was beginning to sense a problem when she finally came right out & said she was still married ["but getting divorced"]. I said that "I'd call that separated, not divorced". She said they're the same. I disagreed and she didn't care for that. She then told me she was seeing another guy in our town - who was also married ("but lied to her about it"). So before things got ugly - I paid the bill and excused myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

FR

I would also say that it depends on how the person talking about the ex is coming across.

Back when this was all just starting, I talked a lot about what my XH was pulling on me. There were some really incredible stories to tell too. But it's a good thing I wasn't dating, because when I was telling those stories, I was venting, mainly because I was still dealing with a whole lot of hurt. Though I didn't see it at the time, now I can look back and realize that during that period, I did a whole lot of directing converstaions so I could bring up XH and something horrible he had done. I brought him up in conversation all the time, just looking for someone else to vent to.

Now... I may still tell some of the same stories (and even a few I hadn't told before.) But only if something in the conversation relates, and it's natural to tell the stories. And even then, I usually find myself laughing as I'm telling it, because as horrible as some of the stuff he pulled was, most of it is so stupid as to be funny, as long as you aren't currently in the middle of it!

So, I think a lot of it depends on attitude. Now that I can laugh about it, people can tell that I'm not venting and upset, I'm just telling what happened like I would do about any other incident in my life that has some humor now. Similar to me telling about how deeply I sleep by telling the story of how I slept through the night of my dad's first heart attack, despite the fact that the ambluance sirens were blaring right next to my bedroom window, and the paramedics were tramping in and out of the house making all kinds of noise, etc. Dad's heart attack itself, not really funny. But the fact that I could sleep through all that commotion and have no idea why my mom and my brother looked like they'd been crying all night when I woke up the next morning... kind of amusing, since dad ended up being ok.

The bottom line - if it seems he talks about his x too much, and still seems hung up or emotional about it all, then he probably is. And if you're worried you might be, try to watch people's reactions the next time you happen to mention the x. If every person you talk to suddenly remembers a very pressing appointment the second the topic of your x comes up, you probably still have some unresolved issues there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There should be enough detail so that it doesn't seem like you're hiding anything. But not so much that it seems like you're obsessed with the ex. I don't think there should be a "dately update" on the ex.

My GF talked about her exH in the begining to give me info about him. I talked about my exW too for her to know. We both don't want any surprises. We are done talking about our ex's ... now we are talking about us <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> .

I agree with TMCM ... run as fast as you can from him ... he is not over his exW yet.

-rh-

I have spent more than half of my adult life being married. If I don't talk about the things I did, learned, felt during those years, I may as well not talk about myself at all. I am the sum of all my experiences - and that includes my marriages. I don't see how I can talk about things I did and places I went without mentioning my H as being part of that picture.

For me there is a different between talking about relationship issues, arguments, intimacies, etc. and talking about things we did together.

But then it's a moot point because I'm not dating anyone.

I hear a lot of people here talking about being friends first... I talk to my friends about me. Who I am today, as Deja Vu points out, is the sum of my experiences - and it also includes my marriage. I pointed out on the "I or we" thread that my love of drag racing comes from having experienced it with my ex. So many of the things I say and do were influenced by the 15 years or so we were together. It's actually taken ME a long time to deal with the fact that he is out of my life, yet, this continues to be so.

The guy I mentioned in the "Calling all men" thread... I've had the opportunity to spend another couple of hours with him one on one, riding to the movies together. We talked a lot about all manner of things including cars, family, friends, being a 40-something single adult among married-with-children friends, religion and our personal religious beliefs, and spent the better part of the ride home talking about our failed marriages. It wasn't just ME talking about my marriage, either. I had commented how "we women" when we are young and full of ourselves often think that the differences we have with our men will evaporate once we get married because we will be able to change them (an entirely separate topic, that!), how we think to ourselves "once we change that one thing, he'll be perfect" when we should either marry someone who's already perfect, or realize that NOBODY is perfect, and accept who we love the way they ARE. He said he accepted his ex-wife the way she was... and went on to tell me about how his marriage began and ended. I also talked a bit about how mine went...

And, while I cannot say where my friendship with this guy will go, I don't think I'm being foolish to say that our talking about our failed marriages was not a turn-off to either one of us. It certainly was not a turn-off to me - as a matter of fact, I felt rather honored that he talked with me at all about it, because I know some of his friends, and I'm pretty sure he hasn't confided a lot of details with any of them. Of course, I don't want to be his counselor, either, but I truly don't think there's any danger of that.

If you're following the "friends first prescription", then I really don't think you can avoid talking about your failed marriage(s)... But then, I guess it wouldn't be on a date, exactly, either.

T

oxgirl -- something you said intrigued me. You said you tell stories about stunts your ex has pulled, but you do it with laughter now. I think that is the key to it all.

While you were still in the pain of it the stories were different.

The guy I am dating will talk about his ex -- but with a lot of bitterness. I think he's "over her" but he's just not a healthy partner.

I think I've lost the energy to prove to him that there are good women in the world. That not all of us want to steal his money and break his heart. I hung in there for a long time trying to break through, and I've come to realize that its me being the ultimate giver (again...sigh!) He really doesn't meet enough of MY EN's.

Moving on.

I hear ya Redhat, TMCM!

BTW Terri -- you rock!

about the ultimate giver, I think there is some truth to that, I seem to have a similar problem, only it is about hooking up with needy women, who have just been too hurt, or too this, or too that, so must gaurd their hearts etc. I would end up doing all the emotional work, and making excuses, and being patient and understanding... If I just treat them right, they will come around and meet my needs, so on and on it goes, spend a year with such a woman, she clearly liked me, and was nice....but I finally figured out she liked me because I was so good at meeting all her needs. Supposedly that means they are suppose to fall in love with you, but that is not always true, maybe not even often true. What happens is they get all their needs met, for a bargain price (givers don't ask for much, not their nature to require reciprocity), and that's what they love. The relationship itself is a disaster for the giver, who ends up emotionally drained.

I read the he's just not into you book (or she, applies as well), and the lightbulb went off. Heck, who cares what the so-called reason is, or what past hurts one has experienced, if you want to ride the horse, you get back in the saddle or go home. If someone is not into you (and we know how that should look, no excuses), then why continue?Now when I meet someone, if they aren't clearly pulling their weight in pretty short order, I move on, I am out of the rehabilitation/rescueing business. I realize now that a person who reacts to past hurts and failures by becoming a taker, is not healthy, so why date them? Everyone has baggage, I want someone who does not let that turn them into a taker. The several stories currently being talked about here, seem to be all about givers hooked up with takers, no matter how nice or redeeming their other traits are, and the givers making excuses or trying to talk themself into remaining in an unfair relationship...why do givers do that? Why did I do that? I finally understood it is our normal reactive self, to fix things, to see the potential, it is our weakness. We need to be proactive, and when something is not working right...just leave, no need to fix anything or anyone. Now the primary thing I look for is another giver.

The funny thing is, I find myself confused when given too, I am so used to being on the short end of the stick, it feels weird to be with an equally motivated giver, and I don't always recieve as graciously as I should....but I will get over that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> is so much more fun. The problem is, givers are naturally attracted to takers, cause we like giving and they like receiveing, and we don't appreciate this is the wrong way to select a partner, cause at first feels good. But knowledge is power, and in this regard we should depend more on what we see happening, and not on what we feel at first. Time wise, it should not take more than a month or two, and 1/2 dozen dates to get read about someone, and move on if one is not seeing an interest and effort in learning your needs, and meeting them willingly/enthusiastically.

knight -- you are SOOOO on to something!

I have a hard time being a "taker", it throws my world into confusion too.

I need to study more about how to put balance into my relationships.

I am much faster about getting out when I realize I'm falling back into my giving too much patterns.

hmmmmmm....need to think more.

Interesting indeed! I think in the early years of my M I was definitely a giver. But maybe not as you mean it. My entire life became focused on his problems - his drinking, his dysfunctional family (this was a major issue several times a week), his financial irresponsibility (me bailing him out, paying all the bills, doing all the home repair, etc.) - until I finally got tired of it.

Instead of dealing with it in a healthy way, I gave up and quit trying, without realizing it on a conscious level. Instead I became a taker. I became resentful. I lost interest in intimacy and really started thinking of him more like a child than a partner. (I never wanted kids, so this was really frustrating). I knew this was happening to some extent but didn't think it would have any lasting effect. I was naive, or in denial - or both. I thought I had to settle for something in a M, and better this than other options, such as being beaten, abandoned, or cheated on.

By the time H decided to be responsible - something he didn't really pull off that well anyway - it was too late for me. How I wish I'd ended the M back then, instead of waiting until the roles had reversed and he became resentful. Still, I withdrew even more as his responsibility was selective, and he continued to ignore major things that were left to me.

Give, take, take, give --- knight50 you are SO right. If I ever feel I can be a giver again, I'll seek another. Otherwise I'll keep to myself and not wish myself on anyone else.

Deja Vu -- you're giving me Deja Vu!
Sounds like my marriage too.
Giver Snap.

The one thing I look for when someone is discussing their ex is how much responsibility they take for problems in their former marriage. If I have someone who is very bitter, feels like he was totally the victim of his ex wife..I worry. I'm not saying that we don't have bitter moments, especially when infidelity has occured. But if someone can't get beyond that....if they now live their life around being a "bitter victim", no thank you!

Hey now, There are plenty advantages to being bitter....

Like when your mixing a Gimlet, you just stir it with your finger and you don't need lime juice.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

RebornMan

Great question! I've been trying to come up with what to say & when & think I've got a little something figured out.

If it's the first meeting, I expect we would have exchanged the very basics by email, phone or whatever already. the next step would be to acknowlege my part in the demise of the marriage & say a little bit about my ex's part too. I wouldn't expect to say much more unless we started to see more of each other then I would give more detail. The level of detail should be in direct propotion to level of intimacy or seriousness of the relationship.

The big red flags for me would be if my new "love interest" doesn't acknowlege his role in the break up of his marriage, hasn't learned from it, & if I get things like "my ex did that" or "that's just like my ex" etc..One friend I have asks her dates to refer to the ex by their name so that the ex is then their own person & not "my ex".

Great sound bite! I love it!

I don't bring up the XW (STBXW, but I refer to her as my XW) unless she has done something outlandish that particular day or my date questions me about her. Otherwise, it is a non issue with me. I don't want to drag my date down with stories of my XW and am sure she doesn't want to hear all that negativity. So I would say, only you can know how much is too much for you, but I would suffice it to say that if he is constantly bringing her up there might be a reason (like he hasn't let go).

RUN LEXXY RUN