And in all of this, none of my questions have been answered, and probably never will.

WH portrays (and sincerely thinks of himself) a victim. The MC talked about EVERYONE thinks themselves the victim in every situation - in order to protect their ego. It is apparently human nature.

I spoke up, and said "I CHOOSE NOT TO BE A VICTIM".

When I spoke of asking questions that I would like to know the answer to, WH and MC both agreed that I shouldn't know all the little details. I agreed - "I don't want my mind filled forever with that kind of sewage". The MC said that the little details would end up being triggers for me. I said I don't want to know all the details.

WH said he was sure this whole thing would never go away.....then why did he start it, is what I want to know.

It was a very heated session - mainly fired by my feeling awful because it's now 1 year since D-Day #1.

All in all, WH sat there with a face like a thunder cloud while I spoke.

The one question I did ask "Were you with her the Sunday night when our old dog Mikey died? You know we all "shielded" you from the pain of knowing that he lived nearly the whole night - with me laying on the floor beside him.....alone".

WH's answer? "I don't know".

WH told me his family was disgusted (or some such word as that) with me because of how I bad mouthed him, and talked about him to them. To which I answered "I only answered their questions, and only spoke the truth". He later retracted his statement, saying they were frustrated with me (because I wouldn't do what THEY wanted me to do, no doubt).

So, this may very well be the last time I post here. I see that it has worked for so many....I think I have done too many MB mistakes for it to have worked for me in the end.

I thank you all for your advice, support, and friendship thru what has been the most horrible time of my life. I have learned a lot. Especially about myself.

K <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

How cute. How nice for the rapist to get to decide what is "best" for his victim. That is a novel approach! K, the truth is that it should be YOU - THE VICTIM - who decides what you need to know and what you don't need to know.

It is breathtakingly arrogant of the MC and your H to decide for a GROWN WOMAN what she needs to know. You are the only one who knows what you can and can't handle as "triggers."

Actually, it is often WORSE not knowing, because then you will just imagine the worst. Of course, you may not need very detailed information, such as what color ho-bag's panties were, but you need to know times, dates, places, etc.

And you have a RIGHT to that knowledge. This is about your life, too, and you can't begin to EVER TRUST him again until he quits keeping secrets from you that only he and ho-bag are privy to. He does not have a right to SECRECY. No information, no trust. No trust, no recovery.

So, no, K. Don't settle for less. Tell MC that that not knowing is UNACCEPTABLE and will not fly. N.A.D.A. Tell your H that any further withholding is UNFUC*INGACCEPTABLE. Your recovery depends on it. If you don't stick up for yourself, no one else will, K.

hi k <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My post isn't here. Did you see it fly by???

Short version: Don't leave yet, ok?

Take care <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What do you mean by this, K? Why are you leaving? Are you planning on ending your marriage? I am confused.

Agree, Mel.

That MC is crap. Dump that MC. Discuss POJA with your H.

Without the details you need your H can rest assured that your ability to be able to heal from this, so it doesn't polute the rest of your marital recovery, will be hindered.

A part of recovery is getting the details you need to put your past together and make sense of some of the crazy making your H's A caused. You need all of your questions answered as best he can.

I did get some of the frustrating 'I don't know's'. But I ultimately did get most of my more important questions answered to my satisfaction.

I don't know why you would want to leave MB now. Even if you decide to D there is still help for you here asa well as your ability to help others from your own experiences.

Trix, Mel, and LovingB.....

Oh, I see I "miswrote" on my post about what the MC said.

WH doesn't think I need to know details. The MC said that he didn't think I was the kind of person (judging from my solo session) who wanted ALL the details, like "what did OW drink when you went out", color of panties, etc. He said often times after learning the sordid details, that they can become triggers.

But the MC went on to talk about the ways to ask these kinds of questions, and be able to put the past to rest.

But I DO need to know some things - like the night the dog died, was he with her?

I would like to know how much of our money he spent on her.

Was he with her the day after Valentine's Day (like I suspected he was) when he worked late at the office?

I would like to know how much time he spent with her after he moved out....did he just use his apartment as a closet?

These things I want to know. But, like the question I asked about the night the dog died, the answer I got was "I don't know". And, yes that was 2 years ago, but I bet he remembers.

Oh, BTW, WH did NOT like it at all that I went to the MC alone. He says it doesn't bother him, but his actions showed me that it really did.

I don't know how I could possibly help someone else, unless it's as the poster child of "WHAT NOT TO DO".

Right this moment, I feel as though I have let myself down. That this M will grind along for a while, until it finally dies. Because I was not strong or smart enough to take the advice that was given, and use it, and be consistant with it.

All my own fault.

I have learned that I am smarter than I thought I was, stronger than I thought I was, and am able to make it on my own - quite well, thank you very much.

This I HAVE learned from MB, and you wonderful people here......I WILL NOT GO DOWN WITHOUT A FIGHT!

I know in my heart that I will either get what I need to heal, or the M will end - on my terms.

The gloves are off!

K

K, I'm sorry I haven't checked in on you for a while. I've been over in Recovery more than GQll. Although I did post the lyrics of a song here yesterday dedicated to "cake-eating WSs and the unfortunate BSs who are Med to them" which you might enjoy if you can find it.

Listen, don't get down on yourself. I say I'd dump my H's butt to the curb if he ever was with OW again, but crap, I never thought I'd stay with him if he ever cheated on me. And here I am! Your biggest mistake has been being too loving and too forgiving. Your H took advantage of you and wasn't strong enough to kick his drug.

I'm with Mel 100% on YOU have the right to get any friggin details you want. My H has told me a lot, but he also has amnesia on the timeline of events. I totally understand why you would need to know if he was with her when your dog was dying. I have a similar question that needs to be asked. I haven't asked it yet because frankly, as much as I'm not a conflict avoider, I haven't been ready to face this one yet. In 8/03 I went to my sick elderly dad's condo to check on him. He literally was gasping for breath when he walked a short distance to the bathroom. It was so scary and awful. After I called 911 I called H. This is what he told me. "I'm going to take a shower and then I'll meet you at your dad's." I remember feeling stunned. Here I am alone with my sick father, and H is going to shower 1st. He said, "It usually takes a little while for the EMTs to get there." After d-day it hit me that he had probably just "F"ed OW and that's why he had to shower. I guess I need to know just how depraved(sp?) he got.

If your H continues to stonewall you then he does deserve to be kicked to the curb. You have hung on through thick and thin. This man has to start opening up. As Mel said no more dirty little secrets that just he and the bi*** know about. If you do leave him you better keep posting here. I hope if my M doesn't make it I can still reach out to my MB buds. HUGS! CV

Thanks CV.....

Yeah, I hear you about your Dad being sick and all....see, that brings up another question....or perhaps an observation....

When my mom died 2 years ago (2 months after my 18 year old cat died in my lap, and just 3 months before my 16 year old dog died - very bad winter that year) WH just didn't seem too compassionate toward me - in fact, he acted like it was an imposition to drive to California for her memorial service.

Of course, he was deep in his A back then.

I don't know, everything just seems like a fight with him - he's so stubborn.

And I keep thinking - the only emotion this all brings for me is anger. No sorrow, no pain. Indeed, simply talking about my dog's death brought me to waves of crying. The rest of the talk - not even a ripple of emotion.

Is my heart now dead?

K <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

K, one of the biggest things that will keep H and I from recovering from this is me. And one of the biggest reasons it will be me is because I still can't accept how cold H was towards me during one of the most difficult times in my life. The difference between your situation and mine is that once d-day hit H did pretty much go cold turkey and fired the "B". Yet, just like you have that memory of being alone while your dog died, I have the memory of all of us being in my dad's hospital room while he was losing consciousness. My brother's and their Ws held each other, while I finally asked H for a hug. As you probably know H is a funeral director and he invited OW to our home in-between visiting hrs. She actually pushed my dad's casket in the church. D-day was 16 months ago and I still don't know how to make peace with those memories, and my H did do the right thing.

At some point your H has got to really face what he did. He has to deal completely with his A. Only then will you even know if you want him back. After all your sadness it's no wonder the anger is coming out now. HUGS! CV

Yes, the MC said that WH has to take full reponsibility for his A. I don't think he has done that. Like I said before, he is still (in his mind) the victim in all of this.

I can't tell you the number of times WH said things like "I gave up a good relationship (for us)", and "I've found a better and gentler side to myself with Ow". WTF!?!?

I KNOW he still has that romanticized view of his A.

This, alone, makes me sick. Literally. Makes me want to throw up. Vomit. Puke. Hurl.

WH's older brother had and A some years ago with a woman who lived right out their back door.

SIL told him to stay til their DS graduated, then he could do what he wanted. He carried on his A right in front of his wife's nose. For 2 years.

Now he says he doesn't know what he would have done if his wife hadn't stuck by him "thru his problems"

They never speak of it. It's never been brought up. The A died a natural death. BIL has had many serious health problems since. His wife at his side.

And I always want to ask "WHAT ABOUT SIL'S FEELINGS, HER SELF-ESTEEM!? WHAT PRICE DID SHE PAY - AND IS STILL PAYING - FOR HIS "PROBLEM"????

I don't want this to be me. But I know if I keep bringing up stuff about the A to WH all the time (so I can get closure), he will want to be as far from me as he can get.

This is because he still is playing the victim.

K

hi k <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm probably going to play bg later this evening/tonight if you're in need of some R&R.

Take care <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi LB....

Thanks for the invite.....but I'm going to be gone tonight. WH and some friends are going out to scout out places for the band to play.

I ordered a real bg set this past week. Going to try to get someone here at home to play with me.

But I'll check the zone for you a little later.

K <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

K, your H has got to get his head out his "you know what". I told you what I used to tell H when he was pining away for the "B". "H, if your "LOVE" was so wonderful with OW than go follow your bliss." That comment by you H about the "gentler side" that came out during the A reminds me of a conversation with H yesterday. I was talking with H about the 1st letter OW wrote him. It was a few days after I graduated from grad school and she told him how sorry she was he was having such a hard time at home. I asked him, "So what hard time were you having?" He said the only thing he could think of was that he was in turmoil over being home and involved with her. So I said, "So OW was saying how sorry she was that you were feeling guilt because you were having an A and going against your values. That you felt badly being at home because you were a lying assh***. How loving and considerate she was." PLAAAEEEEESSSSSEEE!!!

Is your H in IC? Maybe he needs to go to a good pro-M therapist to wake him up from his illusions. HUGS! CV

hi k <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It does get worse, doesn't it? The stalling of actually starting active recovery efforts. Please don't wait too long and he gets sick or something, ok? You could be stuck with him, whether you wanted to be or not, for longer than you would have otherwise.

If you want to play bg, just give a holler. I'll check throughout the day.

hi k <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How are you feeling?

Hi LB and CV....

I'm doing fine (definition of FINE - I was recently told - is F - freaked out, I - insecure, N - nervous, & E - emotional). Perfect.

In some ways I'm okay, and in others, I'm about to explode. I'm thinking the whole problem with me is that I need to take the PRO-ACTIVE role in this. If WH doesn't like it, then that's too bad.

He's taking the slippery, slidey role in this. Two steps forward, then five steps back.

He said he wants something that is "just his". I feel like screaming "You had a 3 year A that was JUST YOURS"!!!!

And, I am reading a book by Dr. Phil - "Relationship Repair"
"it's not possible for you to have a seriously defective long-term relationship unless you have generated and adopted a lifestyle to sustain it".

OMG!!!! Slap me up along side the head!!!!

I can REALLY look back and see how this happened (the A), and even tho it was WH's choice to cheat, I have NOT been pro-active enough in my own M to prevent this from happening, or at least see it before it hit me between the eyes.

But, as you say, the WH need to take full responsibility for their A, and THEIR behavior before anything can recover.

Yes, WH is in IC....with our MC. He's been going to him for about 4 months now.

EXACTLY!!!!!...........PPPPLLLLEEEEAAASSSEEE!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

My apologies to Dr. Phil......his book is called "Relationship Rescue".

This morning I feel sad.....and resolute.

All of this "thinking back" over the past few years is getting me down.

I really am trying to "see" what went wrong - and I know I should have done a better job of that in the beginning.

And after reading Mimi and Lemonman's post re: SF with WS during Plan A.....

Well, I found out about the A by contracting Herpes from WH. When I think of the many ways he put my HEALTH at risk, I shudder. How could he have done that to me? I don't understand.

I have a great deal of anguish over this. How does one get over it? Let it go? Lash out? Talk about it?

I have no answers for this.

K <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

hi k <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've been "fine" lately too LOL.

Hi LovingB....

I'm really "FINE" (Freaked out - Insecure - Nervous - Emotional) today!

WH told me on the phone last night that he was going to be gone for work tonight. I thought he meant next week. I noticed this morning that his shaving kit was gone.

So, I called him and asked him if he was not coming home tonight.

He said he told me that he was going to be gone tonight. That his stuff was sitting on the counter this morning - but I guess I just didn't notice it.

My first reaction (gut? or not?) is that he is going to be with OW. I thought I should go drive up where she lives and see if his car is there at her place. But I don't know.

He has called a couple of times since to reassure me - not really reassure me, but to let me know that he DID indeed tell me last night.

Yeah, I'm FINE.

When does this kind of crappola end?

K <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

k,

I do not think that is something that a person can ever "get over it". Every flareup is going to make it rear it's ugly head. He has put your life at risk here. We ain't talking measles ya know.

Yes, we catch colds from our spouses...and it's part of life. Bringing home an std isn't part of life.

If he didn't care about his own health, that's his choice. He took YOUR choice away from you and that is the one thing that I would have a hard time getting over...if ever.

That is the thing that really bothers me when people keep providing SF to a wayward spouse. I can only hope that they INSIST on protection if they continue having sex with their WS.

You cannot believe a word that comes from a WS's mouth...so the assurances of using protection with the affair partner isn't to be believed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

committed