WH started staying back at home a few more nights to "work on things". He is always acting mad at the world. When ever I try to kiss him, he doesn't kiss back, just the old tight lip thing. Last night he decided to stay at his apt.
This morning at work he came in late. So of course I am thinking he was with OW, when I am almost certain he was not. He may have gone out last night to "see" her but based on the emails I have read, their relationship is no where near the PA level. She has a boyfriend and most responses to my WH to meet have been "sorry" I have plans.
I also drove by her apt this am and no sign of his car (never has been).

But anyhow...I am a nervous wreck because if I bring up where he was he gets angry. If I ask him if he went out last night he will say "Yeah and maybe I'll go out tonight too if I feel like it." Just to make me feel bad. Remember his issue with our marriage is that I am always trying to control him.....
I understand this is still fog...I am still confused about Plan A. In Plan A have you placed the demand of NC on the WH? Or are you assumming that the A is ongoing and you just continue to be the best BS you can me to make them want to come home. I am still not sure at what point do you expect NC. Ask nicely for it in plan A...and then make it a "must do" in Plan B. Can someone clarify?

I have been listening to a tape called "Just for today".
Last night it talked about forgiveness. It really stressed forgiving ourselves for allowing ourselves to stay in relationships that were not loving. It says we must forgive ourselves for finding excuses to pull ourselves out of the holes we have allowed ourselves to fall into.

I still am having a hard time about the trust issue. I do not think I will ever be able to trust my WH again. Is it even worth trying to work on a marriage when that is the case?

Homer, according to your sig line you have been in Plan A since September of last year.

According to your post, your WH has moved out and is still treating you with the utmost contempt and disrespect.

Why have you not gone to Plan B?
Mulan

Homer, I am asking the same question as Mulan. Staying in Plan A this long is not helpful, it is hurtful. It only serves to reinforce bad behavior. Why would you tolerate this disrespect for so long? Your H is not in any way committed to this marriage. He wants to have his cake and eat it, too. And why not? Who is there to stop him?

Homer, what is the hard time about? You shouldn't trust an untrustworthy person. And since he has no interest to regaining your trust, you shouldn't trust him.

I agree, Homer.

Time for PLAN B. The telling points are that he doesn't voice a PLAN for working on your marriage. Part of PLAN A is negotiating reconciliation. He is not moving in that direction.

Plus, I used to think no sign of my H's car at the OW's house meant that he was not with her. Turns out she would pick him up from somewhere. He was there all those times when I was looking for a sign of his car.

They get devious about not being caught.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Can some of you ladies come here and kick me in the [email]a@$?[/email]
I think I need some intervention. I get so angry when WH treats me the way he does, but I am afraid to express that because as I said he will say I haven't changed, so why should he move back. I am starting to realize I have been so on edge the last few years because he has been so critical of me in every way, but never looks to himself.

I know that just about any other man out there would appreciate a wife who is a good cook, keeps a clean house, mows the lawn when necessary etc, etc, etc. It is just so hard to accept the fact that my WH has changed from the man I married to the WH that he is. Every week I find another excuse to not Plan B.....like the Memorial Day camping trip we make every year is coming up. I am worried I would spend all my time wondering who he was with and doing what if he didn't come that I wouldn't be able to enjoy myself.
I would be afraid the DD's would miss out on being with their dad. Excuses , excuses , excuses.

My plan was to plan B at the end of the month and I know that many of you have asked why wait? Why is change so hard?

Let the Memorial Day Camping trip be the "End of the Road". I think you can wait that long in order to get ready for PLAN B.

Homer, we were all afraid to do Plan B. But aren't you more afraid of losing your marriage? I don't get it.....

The Titanic is going down and you are "afraid" to jump in the life raft.

Homer, if I'm missing the boat here, I apologize...

I mean no disrespect, but there's something fundamentally wrong with your H's brain chemicals.
As far as you know, it's nothing but a Fantasy Affair (FA) for him, isn't that what you've said?

I say "nothing but," but if in fact this is about another woman, it's obviously huge for your W?H.

Are you SURE this is about this other woman, and not something else... Depression, Mid-Life-Meltdown, or ??

He's acting like he's 12 years old. Frightened(?) Completely lost. Angry at the world, starting with himself. The more you write, the less it appears YOU have ANYthing to do with what's going on in your poor H's head.

My point is: IF, after exchanging a couple emails with this woman, and/or having a drink ONCE? with this woman, he's THAT messed up about her -- and AFTER she's blown him off a bunch of times!! --- something is WAY outta whack.

Am I nuts, or... ?

Homer, you DO do this. I remember last time you had had it, and wanted Plan B, there was a family vacation that you were he!!-bent on you all going to.

I don't mind reading your posts, and you can certainly come here as often as needed to vent ~ but . . . it is not just magically going to fix itself. You are going to have to take ACTION, with a PLAN. If you choose neither of those things, then just plan on being in pain and misery ~ your WH has made it very clear that he is going to do what HE wants, dragging you along kicking and screaming, it seems.

YOU have all the power right now, and you continually give it away to him. Plan B seems scary and hard, but I am telling you, it is LIBERATING. You don't even realize how much energy and SELF that this whole thing sucks out of you each day. WHY do you think SO MANY people come on here and say, "It took me FOREVER to go to Plan B, because I was so scared, and the only thing I regret now is not doing it sooner." ???

Life is never going to accomodate your Plan B, just as life doesn't accomodate any hard decisions we make. Isn't that true? Isn't there always a reason to NOT do something, if you look hard enough? You are going to just have to say, "ENOUGH!" to yourself, and get on with it.

I know why you allow all this stuff from your WH, Homer. Fear. Fear of the unknown, fear you are letting him go, fear to be alone, fear of being a single mom, fear of your kids growing up in a broken home, etc. The fact is, you only have so much control over these things ~ you are only half of the M. Those are all realities you need to come to peace with, accept as possible, and KNOW that you not only will survive them all, you will EXCEL.

You are smart, articulate, strong, thoughtful, a good woman. Please do not tie your self-worth, success or failure, to that of your H. First and foremost, you are a whole person on your own. You did just fine before you met your WH, and you will do fine with or without him.

Plan, action ~ that is what you need.

Spidey

tqt( I still want to know what that means)....thats what I am saying. He keeps telling everyone it's not about her, he's already admitted that she really doesn't want to be with him in that way, but he keeps trying...hoping that one day she will break up with her boyfriend and jump all over him. I like you, have a spouse that has so many issues, but refuses to let anyone in long enough to help. Our 12 DD is exhibiting signs of Generalized Anxiety. Her IC wants us all to come in for Family therapy. WH keeps responding that DD doesn't need meds, that we(I) are not keeping close enough tab on her to stop her from plucking out her eyelashes. That I am not supervising her enough....not that it has anything to do with this mess he has created. I have asked him twice about the group session and he keeps blowing me off.

I am really feeling that after Memorial weekend that I will Plan B him and let him deal with the fall out. I have scheduled MC for next Fri and he is invited but who knows. It is with a new counselor, but I am afraid that if I bring the OW up he will get angry and leave. Frankly the more I write about this the angrier I get. It is sad when the person you thought you knew so well has issues....I need to try very hard not to let his issues destroy me in the process.

SS is exactly right, Homer. Plan B should not be put off for some holiday. It would be a much more effective strategy to go into Plan B BEFORE the holiday, because it can serve as a HUGE wake up call to the WS to spend his holiday alone with his little fantasy affair. And see, that little fantasy can persist as long as you protect him from reality.

He wants to live like a swinging bachelor, then LET HIM DO IT, Homer. STOP protecting him from the consequences of his choices; stop protecting him from REALITY where is allowed to come play family man when the spirit moves him. If he wants to act like a single man, let him live like one.

What do you think of this? Came on my thought for the day.....

I know the grass beyond the door, the sweet keen smell.
--Dante Gabriel Rossetti

There is a tale about a king who wanted only the wisest man to be his prime minister. When the search narrowed down to three men, he put them to a test. He placed them in a room and installed an impressive lock on the door. Whoever was able to leave the room would be prime minister.

Two began to work out complicated schemes to get out. The third sat and thought. Finally, the third man walked to the door and turned the handle. The door had been unlocked all the time.

I know that everything you say it true....I know that I need to take action....the whole thing is eating me up inside. Like right now he left over an hour ago to go to the bank. It tkaes maybe 10 mintues to get there and I am sitting here wondering where is he really?

I shouldn't even be here working for him, but it was part of my Plan A to still be the supportive loving wife. I baked banana bread last night in between helping DD make a ferris wheel for a report she is doing and driving her to two different rehearsals for plays she is in. OF COURSE I brought some in to him.

Last week when I told him I was tired of being a doormat he responded that no one like to feel that way, yet he doesn't see that his actions are part of that. I know that I can control feeling like a doormat, by not letting myself be treated like one. I feel more screwed up inside then anyone could imagine. A good friend has told me time and time again that the horse is dead, stop beating it. My response is that my damn foot is stuck underneath and I can't get it out and the horse it too big for me to lift it. Self-defeating pity talk I know I know I know.
I'm getting sick just typing this.

So what do you think will help prepare you for PLAN B?

What is holding you back from doing it RIGHT NOW?

Fear that you will lose him to the OW? If you don't have all of him, you have already lost him. Don't you want at least the opportunity to get him back? In my view, that's what PLAN B offers. I had to accept the fact that I had already lost my H, that there was no other way for ME to go on in PLAN A without also losing MYSELF.

Homer, the horse is not dead at all, your strategy is dead. Time for a new strategy. Plan A is not intended to be a way of life.

Do you have a Plan B letter? If not, I would start working on it now and set a target date. Post the letter here and let us help you fine tune it for the maximum effect.

Hopefully, that target date is before the holiday so you can capitalize on that opportunity. Holidays are a GREAT opportunity to deliver a much needed wake up call.

I put a Plan B letter together last month when WH and I were meeting to look at child support issues. He kind of took a step back and got all weepy. Said he thought he would move back home to work on things...he never did.
Last week I finally told him, time to [email]Sh@*[/email] or get off the pot. He said he thought he would come back home, but was afraid to give up his apt. When I asked him about NC with OW he said " lets work on one thing at a time", has stayed at home 4 of the past 6 nights. Now it feels he is pulling back again.

So I will post the letter which is pretty generic and you all can pick it apart for me.
Does the anxiety of not knowing where you WS or even your FWS is ever go away? Is it OK to ask him where he was?

Homer, I am sorry, but this is just unacceptable! Your WH is an ADULT, fully capable of taking care of himself ~ and from everything he is saying, he wants to!

Your DD is NOT capable of helping herself. You need to DISengage from your WH, and take care of this DD that needs you so badly right now. Because you know the message she is getting? That NOBODY is capable/willing to deal with the mess your WH has created. So what if he created it?? He obviously feels no responsibility to try to repair any of it.

You are the mother. YOU go to the group sessions. YOU get her in a support group. YOU go to the seminars/lectures/classes that YOU can to help HER. If I were you, I would totally disconnect from your WH (Plan B), and THROW yourself into reconnecting with your DD and helping her through this most scary time of her life. She needs the only lifeline who is even paying attention, to come and help her.

My DS has Asperger's Syndrome, and when my FWH left, he was devestated. After 6 weeks of dedicating myself to a WH who was not interested in me one iota (even though the OW had already dumped him), I finally WOKE UP. My KIDS needed me more than my FWH did. And so do yours.

Spidey

For those of you who have plan B'd. Do you really need a letter? Can't you just drop off the face of the earth and then when they come looking for you, spell it out to them?
I am sure the letter will end up in the garbage anyhow.
Maybe once again I am afraid the letter has too much finality to it.

Even if you give them the letter and then they come back and make all these promises, how can you be assured that the A isn't still going on? I don't want to go through this again. I don't want him to come back if he has no intentions of stopping this obsession with the OW.

Of course you need a letter. The point is not to disappear or punish them, it is to take control of the situation and protect yourself from abuse. The letter is imperative in order to give the WS a path back. You lay out the PATH BACK in that letter. They need to be assured that you love them before you go dark or it just looks like punishment.



Your marriage will have some "finality" to it, as in FINAL ENDING, if you don't stop with this dithering and do something to save your marriage.


First steps first. Just get the letter ready, and lets work on a strategy. You can worry about the future in the future.