Is WS babble designed to draw BS into a fight or do they truly believe the crap coming out of their mouths?

SIL leaves this weekend for a two week vacation. This means that care of MIL falls entirely on me.

Oh wait, WH is going to live at MIL's during that time so he can help out on the rare occasions that he is home.

I'll use those two weeks to Plan A my butt off, but then I think I'll be done. I'm ready for Plan B. After my next talk with SH, I'll work on a Plan B letter and ask for your help.

After my angry bad hair day recovering from all the tongue biting i did to avoid LBs during WH's unusually angry Fog, I'm feeling better today. WH is typically an infuriatingly nice conflict avoider and even says all of his foggy stuff in a friendly tone --- but not this time.

Today I posted a draft to a REAL Plan B letter instead of a letter to vent anger on another thread.

I need some space. The kids and I will go into the city tomorrow. I got tickets to see the Barbiere of Seville. It's pretty cool that they like the opera. I'll tell them the story behind it on the train. They like that part, too. We'll stay the night at friends' and visit the market for some special groceries.

WH will move some of his stuff from his current appartment to MIL's next door over the weekend.

I'll cook something special on Sunday when we return home and send it next door for WH, MIL, and the kids to enjoy while they tell him about the opera. Meanwhile, I'll go visit a girlfriend that just returned from vacation and WH can put D10 to bed. She could use a bedtime story from her Papa.

I had a pretty good weekend with the girls. It was good to get away. D10 was sad, but currently seems to be coping. D17 seemed to be coping better at first, but now is pretty angry about the separation of her parents. It is pretty confusing for them. They knew that their father was having an affair behind my back and were relieved once I knew about it.

I imagine that they were hoping that he would end it and we could go back to being the happy family we once were. WH just won't take accountabilty, telling the children our seperation has nothing to do with the A, that the A is over. So now of course the kids, particularily D17, is looking for fault with me. I know that I am not perfect, but I do take responsibility for my faults and I do try to fix the mistakes I make.

Somehow, D17 seems to think that her father's lying to me to avoid conflict is o.k. and normal. Sometimes I think that he is trying to teach our children that it is o.k. to cheat and lie as long as you don't get caught.

Tonight I talk to SH again. I still don't have an appointment for WH, though.

There was some confusion with the appointment with SH and it didn't happen. It looks like my confirmation mail bounced back. Now I don't have an appointment until this Friday, but I was also able to make one for WH on the 27th.

Meanwhile, with WH now living next door with MIL we have lots more contact and I feel I am depositing some LUs without being clingy or needy. Good smells and groovy music coming from the kitchen and the table set in the garden, kids and MIL well-groomed and happy when WH gets home from work. Tonight I go to dinner with a colleague (male, single - no, not what you think, but maybe it will cros WH's mind) to finalize the details of a six-month educational project we are leading. Friday evening I give a book presentation and WH will take care of dinner for D17 and MIL as well as taking MIL to evening mass. D10 will go with her cousin to join my SIL at her holiday home over the weekend. I'm hoping to get in some RC with WH over the weekend, maybe mountainbiking and a film.

I also want to get in another R talk about EN --- in particular about domestic support. Before MB, I never really considered this an emotional need. I think that my neglect of this was a contributing factor to an environment that enabled WHs affair. Until WH goes no contact and gets through withdrawal, I think I should focus R talks on HIS needs. WS are so self-centered. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Any talk about my needs (need #1= honesty and openess) is probably viewed by him as a selfish demand.

At the end of the two weeks that WH is staying with MIL, I will once again ask for more details on his making NC with OW a reality. If there is no tangible change here, he's going to have to move back into his dark and lonely little appartment. At that point, with SH's go-ahead I'll play my last exposure card --- the top honcho of the bank group followed by more separated PLAN A.

losttranslation, the time difference often buries your posts. It seems like you're on a good path right now. I just wanted to pop in and give you a hug.


((((((((((((((lt))))))))))))))))))))

thanks grapegirl,

The hug is much appreciated! Sometimes I think I'm talking to myself. It's good to get some reassurance.
Even if I don't always get responses to my own thread, i can read on others in similar circumstances (like you!) and gain insight.
I like your signature. Do you like wine, too?

I had my second IC appointment with SH today. I told him that I had an appointment set up for WH on the 27th. We talked about me, my progress with Plan A, how I was doing, how the kids were doing.

SH says that I need to be sure that the kids realize that their father's behavior is not acceptable. It is NOT ok for spouses to lie to each other or keep secrets to keep the other spouse from getting angry or hurt. It is NOT ok to have an affair. WH is responsible for his A, not me. I am responsible for my own mistakes. My angry outbursts and disrespectful judgments when I discover another lie or secret are also not acceptable. I am learning a new way to deal with my anger and disappointment and I hope to avoid making the same mistakes in the future.

SH said I should hold off exposure to WH's big boss until after SH has spoken with WH on the 27th.

Another thing he said I should think about is what I should say if WH rejects SH's suggestions. I should ask WH if what Steve said makes sense to him. hopefully he will say yes. Then I should say, "Well if it makes sense, then shouldn't we at least try it? Shouldn't we experiment with this? If the very best solution for our children, for me, and for you is for us to be in love again, shouldn't we give this a try?"

Meanwhile, I'm feeling much more stabile. This separated Plan A has been good for my self esteem. I really feel I am making progress on self improvement and if I can make these things into new habits, I really think that I can make these changes permanent.

Monday I have an appointment with the psychiatrist. He will check to make sure that I'm doing ok with my medications. It seems to working fine and I am not experiencing any bad side effects. He doesn't really understand why I want to stay married to a man that has betrayed me and made me so miserable, but he is willing to back me up as long as I can keep my stability.

I am still hopeful.

Plan A continues to go well with WH living next door at MIL. I have the impression that WH not only sees some of the changes I've made, but is also feeling hopeful about the future of our marriage.

Still, SIL comes back from her vacation on Sunday and WH is supposed to move back into his dark, lonely little appartment across town. I wonder if this looms over his head at all? He is such a conflict avoider. Despite separation, it has become quite difficult for him to spend much time with OW --- too many informants and its always been important for WH to put on a good facade. I think the A has simply become more trouble than its worth. Will he muster enough courage to transfer OW to another bank branch so he can move back home to his family? You'd think that would be easier than keeping up two households ... he'll have to go back to doing his own cleaning, cooking, laundry, affection, admiration, SF ... all things I've been taking care of of these two weeks. I hope that the shock and reality of going without this all really hits him in the face this time.

WH talks to SH on Monday, the day he's supposed to move back out! WH is so good at avoiding issues that he could probably succeed in talking about the weather to a MC for an hour! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Anyone else have experience on a WS's session with SH?

I'm feeling a bit down and burnt out today.

I am beginning to realze that Prince Charming and Skunkypoo may have been sneaking around together as long as 4 years.
I am wondering if I am not feeling a bit too optimistic about this MB stuff. I'm doing a great Plan A now, but I am wondering if it will be enough to get the Prince to go NC. He's been in the habit of cake eating for too long.

Maybe he will never be completely honest and treat me like a true partner and agree to a POJA. Maybe I am just living on false hopes. Maybe Prince Charming never really was the man I thought he was.

How much hope should I invest in Prince Charming's talk with SH?

Any FWS out there ever talk to SH while still in C with OP, still in the fog?

am wondering if I am not feeling a bit too optimistic about this MB stuff. I'm doing a great Plan A now, but I am wondering if it will be enough to get the Prince to go NC. He's been in the habit of cake eating for too long.

are you forgetting here that that WHOLE reason it is called plan A because it is actually followed by a plan B...

cake-eaters.....spouses especially who live on the fringe live in a fantasy that people will just accept that this is the way things are and they can go on being friends forever....

friends don't really treat people this way...and stay close to them....

Plan B be is a huge huge independant stance that says..
I control nothing you do...nothing..
but I am in total control of what I allow in my universe...

what about sunday cooking something hubby loves...that smells good cooking all day...then packing it for him to take when he LEAVES>>>>>>>>

or planning a little party Sunday eve...or a outing so no one is there to send him off and wish him on his way......and certainly don't THANK him for doing what he should have done.......

can you leave him a little wounded sunday night...obviously OW is not sooo great that he has really left..
she is most likely mundane and known..........

ARK

What is Skunkypoo like? you can imagine. She is nothing special, nothing. I think that what Prince Charming loves about her is that she thinks he walks on water and farts flowers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Yesterday should have been Prince Charming's appointment with SH. We started calling at the appointed time and continued for two hours, always getting the answering machine.

This is so dissapointing. I was really looking forward to SH insight on exactly where WH is. Now I have canceled my own appointment for Thursday. Laurie's next appointment that will work for Prince Charming is not until Tuesday the 5th of July. I have requested a follow-up appointment for myself on Thursday or Friday. So this whole thing has been postponed for a week. This is tough for me. I was so looking forward to more clarity and hoping to be another step closer to WH establishing NC with Skunypoo.

Meanwhile, Prince Charming has also not yet moved out from MIL back into his dark and lonely bachelor pad. I think that I have been spoiling him too much. His birthday is on Thursday.

So what shall I do? Should I do nothing? Should I let him stay at least until our appointments with SH next week?

On the one side I am afraid that Prince Charming will think that this is how it will always be... Me Plan Aing my bum off, him retreating to his appartment at MIL's whenever faced with conflict .... or just plain running off for a few days to escape his family and marriage responsibilities.

On the other side, it is just one more week. I should then have input on Steve as to whether or not to expose to Prince Charmings top boss, and when I should go into Plan B.
Whatever action I then take, it would have even more of an impact because of a good, solid Plan A.

Other news? WH noticed all the holiday broshures laying around the house and asked me what my plans were for a summer vacation. D17 is going with her boyfriend and his parents for a week to their vacation home, then she works for a month at an international summer school as a language tutor. I said that I was yet undecided, but was considering Mallorca or the Catalonian coast of France. He asked if he could join D10 and I!!

This is all so confusing! He claims that the A is over. I believe that the PA is over, but contact does continue and so does an EA I believe. There is still a lot of unaccountable time and Prince Charming is still guarding secrets. I do not feel safe with him at all...guarding my heart at all times.

LT, I don't see what more you can do but keep on with yoru plan right now.

VERY disappointing about SH's appointment. I would wait for his assessment before deciding on plan B. Your WH really is a cake eater... I hate that.

Have you exposed LT ? Not clear from the posts I've read.

bOb,

I've exposed to family and friends. Prince Charming and Skunkypoo work at a bank branch where he is the boss. The personell adminstrator, who would be responsible for a branch transfer for Skunkypoo should she request that, is one of our closest mutual friends. It was he that first revealed to me that all the times the WH said he was working late, he wasn't. He was with Skunkypoo.

My last exposure card would be the top boss of the bank. This is a man that Prince Charming has always admired and respected. He is a christian, ver family-oriented man. Prince Charming would be deeply shamed were I to do this. I talked to SH about this and he said I should wait on this one until he has talked to Prince Charming.

I am slowly realizing that this affair was long term. Prince Charming shows no true remorse towards me. It seems that he is not ashamed of the deed, only that people know now. Because he is so concerned about appearances and his reputation, it seems he no longer dares to be seen with Skunkypoo pretending that they are just friends...since they still have contact at work the EA continues and they are probably just sneakier about spending time together.

Yes, Prince Charming is a major cake eater and a conflict avoider to the 10th degree. I am trying to make his continued contact with Skunkypoo a bigger conflict than recommitting 100% to our marriage. It would help greatly if there was more outside pressure on him to go NC.

Skunkypoo's husband has resigned himself to the situation and says now he doesn't have to feel guilty about having affairs himself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Skunkypoo's husband has resigned himself to the situation and says now he doesn't have to feel guilty about having affairs himself.

* shakes head *

Soooo.... Plan A continues.

Tomorrow is Prince Charming's b-day, but since both daughters are gone today and tomorrow on school field trips, I invited the entire in-law family over for dinner last night to celebrate. It was a pleasant, relaxed little dinner party for 10 people.

Strange that before the A, my ability to throw a fab dinner party (due to chef training)with seemingly little effort was something that Prince Charming was always so appreciative. When the a was in full swing (but I didn't know it) he would always complain and criticize about how unnecessary and elaborate those dinner parties were. Could it be that he felt guilty because Skunkypoo was often sitting at our table and he was shagging her the whole time behind my back?

I really get disgusted with both of them just thinking about that. I just try not to go there with my thoughts while cooking. I turn up some groov'n music and enjoy the smells and textures...

After everyone left, Iturned on some Diana Krall, lit some candles and gave Prince Charming a massage.

Tonight I plan an R talk though. I want to make sure that I still expect him to establish NC and will ask him lots of questions about what he is doing about a transfer for one of them. If he needs to pay skunkypoo off to transfer, we can do that. Anything. He need to prove to me that he has made it clear to her that absolutely no contact is desired. Ever. Forever. Once he does that we can discuss under what terms he can move back in.

He is currently reading HNHN. I can't believe it. When I gave him the book in his language, I asked him to read chapters 1,2, and 10. When I asked him how he was doing with the book, I was surprised to hear that he liked it, and is planning to read the whole thing.

So perhaps the postponing of the SH appointment is not such a bad thing. Perhaps Prince Charming will have read more of the book before his appointment with SH on Tuesday. Hopefully what SH says to him will make some sense.

I then have my next appointment with SH on Thrusday. Steve should be able to give me more insight, a timeline, and a plan of further action.

That's some serious plan A-ing!

It's great he is reading HNHN. If I gave a copy to my WH he'd just use it to make his R with the OW better! LOL.

Alph.

I am surprised here, too, Alph. Prince Charming seems to think that relationship books and MC are useless.... and I, too, think they often are.

The thing about MB that is different is the self-improvement that empowers a willing spouse to make positive personal changes independent of whether or not the other spouse is cooperative.

SH's back door approach worked well. Prince Charming noticed changes that were beneficial to him --- upon my request to support these changes that feel so good, he agreed. The HNHN book is very sympathetic towards WS and even my hardcore foggy Prince Charming finds it worthwhile reading.

Every chapter begins with the WS view of things and I can imagine they might feel that they are finally understood by someone other than their affair partner. Then Harley goes on to demonstrate how the A is ultimately destined to failure and the M a rewarding option worth pursuing.

I see it as positive that WH is reading this, but I'm not getting my hopes up high that this will actually change anything. Aliens are thick headed and it takes a while for human speak to sink in. I'm sure that initially, he will onlybe interested in reading about the EN/ENs that I failed meeting. BUT if I can get the chance to fulfill those...???

The omelette is not able to fulfill all of WH needs. She can't replace you, your children, your history together... no way!

So, Lost...

You gonna spill the beans on the romantic meal or what?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

The romantic meal ended up not so romantic, but it was still funny, anyway.

I got MIL fed and sent off to bed.

We were expecting the kids home at 7 in the evening from their respective school field trips. They were supposed to come fed and tired.

They arrived late and Prince Charming and I had already started eating. D10 came home really charged with LOTS to talk about and she is such an expressive story-teller. The food they got over the last two days was TERRIBLE and since they went to McDonald's for dinner, she refused to eat anything. She was starving, but didn't like anything I had cooked, so I made her some apricot dumplings. Then D17 came home and brought her boyfriend along. The same story...awful food the last two days and she is starving.BF had already eaten at home, but he never says no to another meal at our place. D17 didn't feel like eating what I had already cooked, so I made them Bratwurst, fried potatoes, and a salad. Then MIL came over thinking she had woke up late from her afternoon nap and was hungry and was quite happy to share in the romantic meal that I had cooked for Prince Charming. She was particularily amused by the heart-shaped ravioli! Everyone did partake in dessert though. Then after reading with D10 before going to bed, I thought I'd cuddle with her for just a moment. Then I was out like a light. When I woke up, everyone including Prince Charming had left...

Such is life at Chez Jewels! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> That's what happens when you love to cook. Your kids end up super, super picky and your house is always full at mealtime!