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Wow LT, I am impressed. I think you both made a lot of progress. See emotionally he was already out of the house. Moving his physical self just demonstrated where he already was. Keep up the good work and give extra hugs to your daughter. She sounds like a smart girl and one who still wants to see her father come home. Very proud of both of you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> take care, L.
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write your plan B letter..
consider a stellar plan A for two weeks or so..
then Plan B him TOTALLY..
I would think would be my plan...
enough waffling
enough running when the going gets rough...
and most importantly..enough chaos and hurt and yo-yoing to the daughter..(children)
the line is drawn he does NOT come back till he commits and ceases contact....
that is YOUR boundary
his choice remains his without your control and input..
plan B is ALL about what is tolerable in YOUR world...
work has been rough these last two weeks....
puhleeese......
excellent job NOT taking the bait and powerstruggling the trip to India and the dinners out with the girls...he would have been so happy if you had...gotten him off the hook..
I am sorry he so stubborn...
also consider in your plan b ways to remove yourself if only somewhat and slightly from the care taking of his parents....
please know I am not talking about abandonement or any such thing...but this is a boundary you need and deserve...
why should you take care of his parents so he can go out to eat with women.....
you need to show your strength on this as well...
calmly and with grace...
but it is NOT reasonable for him to maintain expectations of you to do this as he accuses you of unreasonable expectations on him
ARK
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write your plan B letter..
consider a stellar plan A for two weeks or so..
then Plan B him TOTALLY..
I would think would be my plan...
enough waffling
enough running when the going gets rough...
and most importantly..enough chaos and hurt and yo-yoing to the daughter..(children)
the line is drawn he does NOT come back till he commits and ceases contact....
that is YOUR boundary
his choice remains his without your control and input.. I get it. This is where I am moving. plan B is ALL about what is tolerable in YOUR world... I get this, too. I'm reaching my goals. I've proven to myself that I can make positive changes in myself and make them a permanent part of my foundation. I expect to be treated with the respect that a Christian man owes his wife, his life partner, no more, no less. work has been rough these last two weeks....
puhleeese...... No kidding. Life with him has been rough for the last 4 years. excellent job NOT taking the bait and powerstruggling the trip to India and the dinners out with the girls...he would have been so happy if you had...gotten him off the hook.. ark^^, somehow I see this as my own personal success. A little sign post that i am learning and changing. Learning to pull back from power struggles, pick my battles, remain focused on priorities, and let go of the rest. It's a HUGE lesson in self discipline for me. I am sorry he so stubborn... I think this is something that he will never change and I must accept. Still, today was the first day in our entire life together that he ever attempted a self-motivated apology. Now THAT is a giant, giant step and one that I would like to take to heart... if I could just trust him. also consider in your plan b ways to remove yourself if only somewhat and slightly from the care taking of his parents.... This is a tough one. For one thing there is the logistics: our house, MIL's house, and our garden are all one estate. WH already has used the excuse of caring for MIL in the absence of SIL (neighboring house) as an excuse to move back in... whilst leaving with D10 during SIL vacation away assuming that I, of course take care of it all. What the hell am I writing?! I get it...I get it, I get it. If he really moved in to look after MIL, why didn't he? Why did I end up for 4 days alone with her while he was off romping with our children. 2x4s needed here! Duh! please know I am not talking about abandonement or any such thing...but this is a boundary you need and deserve...
why should you take care of his parents so he can go out to eat with women.....
you need to show your strength on this as well...
calmly and with grace...
but it is NOT reasonable for him to maintain expectations of you to do this as he accuses you of unreasonable expectations on him many thanks ark^^, many thanks. I'm still tweeking my Plan B letter and have received some good, contructive critisizm here already. I will work on it more and post it again, probably on Tuesday. If you can, please look in and give your input. I am consulting with SH. I feel mature enough for Plan B, now, but still have some stamina. I'm feeling detached enough to wait for the time that will bring the greatest impact with WH. Do you know what I mean? I'm already sitting back and drinking tea... well, at least some times.
Me BS 44
XH 45
M 20 years
D19
D12
DDay 11.29.04
Separated 12.29.04
Plan A 24.02.05
Plan B 10.9.05
Plan D 2.2.06
Divorce 13.6.06
OW - former friend and D12's x-godmother (Skunkypoo)
OWH - philander, XH's former best friend (still shares skunkypoo with XH)
Anger = drinking a rat poison and waiting/wishing the rat would notice you drink it and the rat die from it.
Redhat
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Morning LT, Wanted to see how you were doing and see that Ark has posted 2 u. That's great. Work with her. She is one super MBer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> L.
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Morning LT, Wanted to see how you were doing and see that Ark has posted 2 u. That's great. Work with her. She is one super MBer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> L. Yes, Ark is great, and so are you. Several vets have been extremely helpful and encouraging. It's nice to have more than one fairy godmother!
Me BS 44
XH 45
M 20 years
D19
D12
DDay 11.29.04
Separated 12.29.04
Plan A 24.02.05
Plan B 10.9.05
Plan D 2.2.06
Divorce 13.6.06
OW - former friend and D12's x-godmother (Skunkypoo)
OWH - philander, XH's former best friend (still shares skunkypoo with XH)
Anger = drinking a rat poison and waiting/wishing the rat would notice you drink it and the rat die from it.
Redhat
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I don't know why I didn't think of this before. Our lawyer is on the board of directors at WH's bank! We are friends, our children are friends. She has given me legal advice on seperation and divorce, but she knows I want to save my marriage and she is a friend of my marraiage. I paid her a visit yesterday. She is going to go to the head boss of the bank and demand that WH and Skunkypoo be seperated in different bank branches!!!
We had a long good talk. 14 years ago her husband also had an affair and they were separated for an entire year. Now they have a GREAT marriage! She knows the head boss of the bank and he is a very wise man, a dedicated family man. He lost his first wife and mother of his children to cancer and remarried a wonderful woman that helped him raise his children. They have now been married for 25 years. My lawyer says she would be very surprised if he did not comply.
Me BS 44
XH 45
M 20 years
D19
D12
DDay 11.29.04
Separated 12.29.04
Plan A 24.02.05
Plan B 10.9.05
Plan D 2.2.06
Divorce 13.6.06
OW - former friend and D12's x-godmother (Skunkypoo)
OWH - philander, XH's former best friend (still shares skunkypoo with XH)
Anger = drinking a rat poison and waiting/wishing the rat would notice you drink it and the rat die from it.
Redhat
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W/b nice if that can work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
All the best,
L.
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I painted my living room today. WH always insited on white walls. I painted them a soft apricot, except for the half wall to the kitchen... that is now a deep terracotta color. It looks great!!! WH will hate it... but who cares, he doesn't live here anymore and hasn't for 6 months. 6 Months!!!
On Sunday WH, D10, and I leave for a week to Mallorca. WH's obligatory family holiday ... should I sleep with him or not? That has been the only part of our M that has remained fairly good, but I busted him with Skunkypoo again last Friday. I kind of think I should do everything to make this holiday really fun and relaxing for him. Kinbd of a grand finale to a good Plan A. He will get socked a Plan B here real soon. Next appointment with SH for WH is August 1st. Mine is August 5th, I expect SH to give the go ahead for Plan B.
Thoughts?
Last edited by losttranslation; 07/21/05 08:18 AM.
Me BS 44
XH 45
M 20 years
D19
D12
DDay 11.29.04
Separated 12.29.04
Plan A 24.02.05
Plan B 10.9.05
Plan D 2.2.06
Divorce 13.6.06
OW - former friend and D12's x-godmother (Skunkypoo)
OWH - philander, XH's former best friend (still shares skunkypoo with XH)
Anger = drinking a rat poison and waiting/wishing the rat would notice you drink it and the rat die from it.
Redhat
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Our trip to Spain was lovely! Plenty of SF.
Now back in reality sets in. WH refused to keep his appointment with SH on the 1st, so I took it. WH also said he plans to go out to dinner with our 2 girlfriends with out me wheter I like it or not. He is also planning to go to India for 3 weeks in November whether I like it or not.
I told him we ne to talk about this and come up with solutions where we are BOTH enthusiastic. I can not be that he makes decisions independently that make him satisfied, but make me feel grossly disrespected. He agreed, but didn't want to talk immediately. WH also said he would talk to SH one more time.
Despite it all, Steve Harley sees us making progress.
Me BS 44
XH 45
M 20 years
D19
D12
DDay 11.29.04
Separated 12.29.04
Plan A 24.02.05
Plan B 10.9.05
Plan D 2.2.06
Divorce 13.6.06
OW - former friend and D12's x-godmother (Skunkypoo)
OWH - philander, XH's former best friend (still shares skunkypoo with XH)
Anger = drinking a rat poison and waiting/wishing the rat would notice you drink it and the rat die from it.
Redhat
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WH refused to keep his appointment with SH on the 1st, so I took it. WH also said he plans to go out to dinner with our 2 girlfriends with out me wheter I like it or not. He is also planning to go to India for 3 weeks in November whether I like it or not.
I told him we ne to talk about this and come up with solutions where we are BOTH enthusiastic. I can not be that he makes decisions independently that make him satisfied, but make me feel grossly disrespected. He agreed, but didn't want to talk immediately. WH also said he would talk to SH one more time. WH still has not initiated the above conversation and has also not mentioned another appointment with SH. So, last night while WH was in the kitchen with me while I was preparing our dinner, I said that I would like to have the conversation we have been postponing. He said he didn't want to do it today, that he wanted to do it tomorrow. Then he said that he wanted D10 to sleep over with him at his mother's place. I said no, if he wanted to spend the night with D10, he could do so here. He said, no, he wanted D10 over with him. I said, I didn't want D10 feeling like a yo-yo or think it was fun and normal that he was living over at his mother's. He stormed out, saying that I was using D10 to manipulate him and he was not going to put up with this sh***. This morning he called from work and said he wanted to talk tonight. I am expecting the worst and feeling panicked again. Was I using D10 to manipulate him? D10 was dissapointed that I didn't let her spend the night with him. I'd like to try to POJA the above two items, but part of me thinks, what's the use of POJA with a foggy WH still in contact with the OP? Maybe if we successfully came to a solution which made us both happy, it would motivate him to go NC with the OW and commit to recovering our marriage? What if he is not interested in negotiating anything? What if he asks for a divorce?
Me BS 44
XH 45
M 20 years
D19
D12
DDay 11.29.04
Separated 12.29.04
Plan A 24.02.05
Plan B 10.9.05
Plan D 2.2.06
Divorce 13.6.06
OW - former friend and D12's x-godmother (Skunkypoo)
OWH - philander, XH's former best friend (still shares skunkypoo with XH)
Anger = drinking a rat poison and waiting/wishing the rat would notice you drink it and the rat die from it.
Redhat
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Posts: 27,069
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Do you have your Plan B letter ready?
I would wait to see what he has to say, but if he is like my WH, it will be more of the same.
Included in the plan, should be how the frog prince is going to take care of MIL.
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believer, yes, I do have a plan b letter ready. You can see it on this link: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=2&fpart=2Do you think I was using D10 to manipulate or was I protecting her?
Me BS 44
XH 45
M 20 years
D19
D12
DDay 11.29.04
Separated 12.29.04
Plan A 24.02.05
Plan B 10.9.05
Plan D 2.2.06
Divorce 13.6.06
OW - former friend and D12's x-godmother (Skunkypoo)
OWH - philander, XH's former best friend (still shares skunkypoo with XH)
Anger = drinking a rat poison and waiting/wishing the rat would notice you drink it and the rat die from it.
Redhat
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,069
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I read your second Plan B letter. Needs to be much shorter, and leave out the references to him making your miserable. Post it on it's own thread, and see if folks will comment.
As far as your daughter, I don't think it makes much difference if she wants to sleep with him at MIL's. But that is just me.
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believer,
I've cut the letter shorter and posted it in that thread. Can you please take another look at it?
Thanks!
Me BS 44
XH 45
M 20 years
D19
D12
DDay 11.29.04
Separated 12.29.04
Plan A 24.02.05
Plan B 10.9.05
Plan D 2.2.06
Divorce 13.6.06
OW - former friend and D12's x-godmother (Skunkypoo)
OWH - philander, XH's former best friend (still shares skunkypoo with XH)
Anger = drinking a rat poison and waiting/wishing the rat would notice you drink it and the rat die from it.
Redhat
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,903
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This is my take on your letter IMVHO, take it for what it's worth. I chopped out some, and added some... Dear WH,
I love you, and have held onto hope that we could reignite that love in our M.
I want to sincerely apologize for any pain I may have caused by not making you feel appreciated or special. I have been and will continue to work on the things about myself that made our marriage an unhappy place for you and me .
In February you said that you needed 2-3 months to decide whether or not you wanted to recommit to our marriage. Now six months have passed and you still have not made that decision. I have tolerated (lived with?) your indecision for so long because I wanted to show you that I still love you and our marriage can be saved. I think I have said and done everything I can. You still have not severed contact with OW or committed yourself to working together with me on our marriage. Living with this uncertainty is tortuous for me and for our children. The pain I feel at being betrayed every day rips me apart. I find my love for you dying. In order to preserve the love I still have for you and to stop this continued pain from overwhelming me, I can have no contact with you in anyway: no visits with you, telephone conversations, email, mail, or even seeing you. This is not a punishment; this is to protect the love that I still have for you and to give me a chance to heal from the wounds that your rejection of me and our marriage has inflicted on me. I can not heal in an environment where I feel I am treated with disrespect and my feelings flagrantly disregarded. This space will make it possible for me to wait until you sever contact with OW and are ready to work out a plan to recover our marriage that is mutually agreeable or decide to end our M. .
If you must contact me for legal or financial matters, I ask that you do this through our lawyer. I expect our current financial arrangements to remain the same. You can come and stay with the children every second weekend from Friday 6 PM until Sunday 6 PM and on Wednesday evenings from 5 PM until 7:30 PM: I will not be here. If changes or additional visitations are desired, I ask that you set a time and date in advance through your sister who has agreed to be an intermediary. I shall do the same.
WH, I have the greatest of confidence that we could build a wonderful marriage if we both committed to making it happen. I have learned so much these last few months and would like nothing better than to share it with you. Should there come a time when you feel you could commit wholly to building a new foundation with me, this is something that I would like to discuss with you. I hope that you will think hard on this and choose this commitment. In order to begin a discussion I would need some things form you though. I would need an arrangement where you have broken off with OW completely and can prove you have a plan in place to have no other contact with her for the rest of your life. I would need for you to have counseled with Steve Harley at least twice by yourself. And for all your communication (cell phones, email, etc.) to be transparent, i.e. you give me passwords and an ability to check. If you do, I would welcome a discussion with you about it. Until then, I ask that you respect my wish for no contact with you and give me a chance to heal in an environment that is safe for me.
I miss my best friend. I miss my life partner, my husband, the father of my children, my first and only true love. There is no one with whom I would rather spend my life. And should you choose D, or I have lost all love, we will hear from the lawyers. Probably the most important part I added was the VERY CLEAR path he needs to make to come back home. The steps back, the bare minimum. This needs to be laid out very clear and in precise steps so the WS can understand...
Last edited by StillHereMakingIt; 08/11/05 10:27 AM.
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance!
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oooops!!! That's right. Stupid me accidently sent one of my Plan B letter drafts to hubby. I wasn't quite ready for that. I wanted to give a couple of POJA convos a shot at success.
But guess what? WH has now promised NC with the OW!!!! They are still going to have to work together for a while until a transfer can be organized, but WH has committed to no contact with her outside of normal office hours. No coffee breaks, lunches, shared rides to and from work, or drinks with her after work. Not perfect, I know, but it is a step forward and he does see that NC is necessary for recovery.... AND he has committed to talking to Steve Harley again in two weeks and setting up and keeping to a time plan for going through the 3 steps of healing with me that SH says are necessary before recovery can begin.
AND we also agreed that when we have issues that need discussing he trys to run away and I end up cornering him. As a solution to this we did a POJA... When I face him with an issue that he doesn't want to talk about, I accept that we will not talk about it at that moment, but I have his permission to make him set a time and date for discussing the issue at hand. He obligates himself then to initiate the conversation at the agreed date and time. THIS is a BIG step forward for us!!!
We also began an attempt to find a joint agreement on his trip to India that we will continue next week. Meanwhile we did agree that on all his trips away in the future that he will call me at least once a day. This is another step forward.
It looks like I made one of my best mistakes ever!
Me BS 44
XH 45
M 20 years
D19
D12
DDay 11.29.04
Separated 12.29.04
Plan A 24.02.05
Plan B 10.9.05
Plan D 2.2.06
Divorce 13.6.06
OW - former friend and D12's x-godmother (Skunkypoo)
OWH - philander, XH's former best friend (still shares skunkypoo with XH)
Anger = drinking a rat poison and waiting/wishing the rat would notice you drink it and the rat die from it.
Redhat
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Posts: 4,140
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***WH has now promised NC with the OW!!!! They are still going to have to work together for a while***
LT -- I know you are very excited about what your WH has promised, but please, please, please be careful. What I have quoted above is *not* "NC". It's just a *promise* of NC. Big difference.
Everything you talked about in your post was just stuff WH *said* he would do. Unless and until it ACTUALLY HAPPENS, do not get your hopes up. It almost sounds like he saw your Plan B letter, wants to keep you dangling at the end of that string, and told you everything you wanted to hear.
I am not trying to rain on your parade -- I'm really not. But WS will say ANYTHING to keep you hanging and waiting while they carry on their affair. Protect yourself and keep your guard up 100%. Do not believe a word he says - only believe what he actually does. Again, Big Difference.
I'll be the first one to admit it if I am wrong about this.
Mulan
Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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I know you are right, Mulan. I know he just said it. I do believe he intends to do it. I'll continue to protect myself. I've made clear boundaries that he seems to be respecting.
NC while still working together is not NC and he agreed that that must be the goal. He doesn't "get" it yet, but I truly feel it in my heart that he is getting close. If I listened to my heart instead of my head earlier, the A would not have been able to go on for so long.
Simone de Beauvoir said something on the order of, "In your youth you think with your head and feel with your heart, once you truly grow up it is the other way around".
Mulan my friend, thank you for the rain. I promise, I will be cautious.
P.S. WH just arrived in his office this morning and called me this minute to let me know his schedule so I can set up the appointment with Steve Harley for him!
Me BS 44
XH 45
M 20 years
D19
D12
DDay 11.29.04
Separated 12.29.04
Plan A 24.02.05
Plan B 10.9.05
Plan D 2.2.06
Divorce 13.6.06
OW - former friend and D12's x-godmother (Skunkypoo)
OWH - philander, XH's former best friend (still shares skunkypoo with XH)
Anger = drinking a rat poison and waiting/wishing the rat would notice you drink it and the rat die from it.
Redhat
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Posts: 748
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Posts: 748 |
I haven't been writing as much here lately. I've been adhering strictly to my plan A, working on myself and having success, discovering and setting my boundaries, being a lighthouse for my wayward spouse. We seemed to be making progress.
Unfortunately, just as Mulan predicted, Prince Charming was stringing me along so he could eat cake from both sides.
I've been avoiding going away on business trips for the last two years (actually panic attacks have often hindered me). Despite feeling anxious about it, I mustered the courage last weekend. I was invited to present my new book at a conference. WS encouraged me to go, but declined my offer to join me, saying he would stay and look after the kids. So what does he do? He goes out one night with our two girlfriends despite my saying I didn't feel comfortable about it and his promise to negotiate with me about it AND he went for "coffee" with the OW!!!!
I calmly and repectfully approached the subject. All of his promises after discovering my PBL draft had suddenly dissapeared and he was babbling a lot of entitled WS stuff. Prince Charming STILL puts the blame of his A on my neglecting his needs while pursuing a degree for which I was able to do most of the study from home within a year and a half. He STILL shows no remorse. He STILL continues at least an EA with OW (could also still occasionally be PA). he STILL thinks it is acceptable to fulfill his selfish needs in a way that cause me and our children to suffer. The worst babble came when I broached the subject of his breaking his promise for NC with Skunkypoo... "Why should poor Skunkypoo be the one to suffer because we are having marital problems." I could not bite my tongue on that one (but I didn't spew this time or during the entire conversation for that matter, I actually smiled slightly and looked him in the eyes), "Why should the children and I have to suffer because you are having problems with integrity."
Try and get it... WS names my work and education as the reason for his affair, yet he is glad to use it as an opportunity as well.
Am I ranting? I am furious!
I do my very best to meet his all his needs and i feel used, used , used. Has this formerly conscientious, loving, Christian man turned into a selfish tyrant for good?
In two hours Prince Charming finally has his twice postponed second counseltation with Steve Harley. After WS has digested this and discussed it with me, I will have a counseltation myself. I hope that SH gives me his go ahead to go dark. At this point, I am so fed up with this psychological torture, divorce sounds like a welcome relief.
Last edited by losttranslation; 08/24/05 10:02 AM.
Me BS 44
XH 45
M 20 years
D19
D12
DDay 11.29.04
Separated 12.29.04
Plan A 24.02.05
Plan B 10.9.05
Plan D 2.2.06
Divorce 13.6.06
OW - former friend and D12's x-godmother (Skunkypoo)
OWH - philander, XH's former best friend (still shares skunkypoo with XH)
Anger = drinking a rat poison and waiting/wishing the rat would notice you drink it and the rat die from it.
Redhat
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