Lets be honest...all of us snoop, some install computer software to monitor activity...some use voice activator recorders...some have even hired PI's.

Has anyone had a third party make a call to your home and leave a message to the tune of "Thought you might want to know that your spouse is seeing onother person" and then use that to get your WS to some clean. My WH is possibly comeing honme this weekend but I am not sure that NC has occurred. He is still protecting his email/cell phone activity from me. It might be that he is just trying to prove a point that snooping in a marriage is not OK. And that I can't control him.

Anyhow has anyone faked a call or email, etc to call their WS's bluff?

Snooping/exposure and being deceitful/lying are two completely different concepts.

Is he saying there has been NC and he wants to reconcile with you? Then, there's a need for a NC letter. Even from the beginning when I was in PLAN A, my FWH knew the NC letter was an expectation.

One of the major goals in RECOVERY is RADICAL HONESTY. I don't see how TRUE RECOVERY can commence with you being dishonest.

Mimi It's not likely I would stoop this low. Just putting my feelers out. No my WH has not said that NC is in place. The odd thing about a NC letter is that this woman really isn't reciprocating my WH's advances. The time they have spent together has been minimal and never just the two of them.
My husband has done all of the pursueing. So anyone have any suggestions how this NC letter/email would sound?
If he stops contacting her she may well assume that he finally got a life.

Not gonna work. If he is unwilling to go NC and open up his cell phone records, passwords, et al to you, then you confronting him with a bogus message isn't going to make him come clean. He'll just deny.

The fact that he's hiding cell records and what all is proof enough to me that NC is not on his list of priorities. At least, as far as you know, the OW isn't cooperating with his little fantasy life.

I think your best bet is a full court press Plan A.

~ Snow

Homer, snooping in a marriage *IS* ok. Tell your H that no one has the right to the privacy to destroy another behind their back. PERIOD. There is nothing unethical about snooping when you have valid suspicions.

You can't put snooping in the same category as lying. And no, I wouldn't lie and tell my spouse that someone called and busted him. If he were truly guilty, I would get the evidence honestly and bust him that way.

Why not put some spyware on his computer? Have you tried that?

JMC I adopted PORH early on in plan A on the advice of Mel, and K. My transparency made Squid feel bad about her artifice ( she has said since).

But I did constantly verify her statements by chekcing documents, phone messages, looking for evidence etc.

This is disclosure of unhealthy secrecy not invasion of privacy.

I still look at Squids phone bills etc, but now Squid hands them to me to open & read.

All blessings

If a couple is in the process of recovery then snooping is king of up in the air.

On one hand I can see the BS's need to snoop..........BUT...the WS should completely open with EVERYTHING.

Snooping without the WS's knowledge is seen as mutiny to the WS...while the BS's view is purely personal survival.

It also goes against being completely honest.

I snooped after we reconsiled.......but I only did so when my H was around to see me do it. He had no problem with it...because he had nothing to hide.

Everything is given up freely when there is nothing to hide.

Also.....the WS sometimes see the snooping as control. Like you are trying to keep them on a leash. That hinders recovery.....until the BS is in a comfortable enough position where they don't feel the need to snoop quite as often....or at all.

Lying or tricking someone into giving you information that you want or think you need to hear isn't going to make you feel any better.

Alot of the time the info that we the BS think we NEED in order to move on......doesn't necessarily have the impact that we think it does. Doesn't make us feel better or worse.

I realize this thread has tended more towards the snooping and basically having the WS be an open book.

But I find the simply stated title to be hypocritical. I have a hard time buying the idea of dishonesty by the BS as a method of discovery when it will be the very same BS who cries 'Liar!' in the face of the WS for quite some time.

Whereas I sometimes feel that the BS's sometimes opt for the defense of "well... you did it" I don't find that to be justification. If you truly want a behavior out of someone, seems a little counterproductive to exude an opposing behavior.

Just my thoughts on the title here.

I think the word hypocrite describes it quite aptly.

JCMH,

I say snoop to the max.

I have no problem with my w snooping on me.

The only secrets she'll find are
1) I'm snooping on her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
2) I'm posting on the MB forum.

Meanwhile, I find that she sneaks out after I'm asleep to go do a quicky with OM. (Which I would NEVER HAVE KNOWN IF I DIDN'T SNOOP!!)

C'mon the old "privacy" ruse is just a smoke-screen (or fog-screen).

I would say if he's not willing to open his cell records to you - permanently - don't allow him to come home.

But then again, I remember the 3rd thing my W doesn't know - is that I'm moving out tomorrow.

But in answer to your original question, well.... "maybe".

---------------
Hi Mel <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I hesitate to be like whatisname - the postman on "Cheers" - but ...

Actually, "hypocrite" comes from the greek word for "Actor".
I believe Greek actors often wore masks during their performances.
It means, in short, "A person who pretends to be somebody he isn't."

But Harley says in Plan A "Act cheerful even if you don't feel like it."
So "hypocracy" is advocated here - in the pure sence of the word.

What was that postman's name anyway, sat on the bar stool next to the fat guy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm sure it wasn't ....

-AD

Now AD, professing to have beliefs you don't practice, is a far, far stretch from putting on a cheerful face when you feel down, son! Pretending to be another person is not the same as hiding negative feelings. You get a tomato for that one! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Well Mel, is it a nice fresh warm, [color:"red"]VINERIPE, Truck-red[/color] tomato?

I'll take it, sliced, with a little salt please. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

...with a bowl of turnip greens and and bowl of black-eyed peas on the side.

It's a TEXAS TOMATO!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well, I'll take it anyway. Thanks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I bluffed like a world class poker player to get some info, but I think a fake answering machine message is going too far.

It would be honest to just state, "I have reason to believe that you're still in contact with OW". Then you have the challenge of not letting him sidetrack you with how or what you know.

AD, I believe you're talking about Cliff Claven.

Dobie

Thanks to all for your replies. I know that the concept of a fake phone message is really out there and I agree that it is somewhat hypocritical....And since we are talking tomatoes....getting my WH to open up and be honest is like...well....getting juice out of a tomatoe...and even a Texas one at that.

I think it is the desperation in me that comes up with these ideas. I must say tho I have never smashed my car into his,
or sent things to the OW, or anything remotely like that, as some of the oldtime MB'rs have. ; )

Low and behold last night my WH (?FWH) came home for the 8th night out of the past 10 after being out with BIL whom I adore. We actually had a 30 minute conversation about STUFF!! Just a normal chat like we used to. That hasn't happened in 8 months. He seemed relaxed to be home for the first time in a very long time. He even slept in which is very unusual, normally up by 5:30 and biting at the bit to leave. Funny thing came up in the convo. He mentioned a neighbor and that he had had a dream in the past that I have something going on with this neighbor. I laughed and said "Be careful what you dream about, because I dream about you having an affair and look what happened" He didn't respond but I could see the wheels turning.

I will continue to snoop and no doubt over time he will start to loosen his grip. So if he is being less then honest about the recovery thing I am bound to find out.

Thanks again everyone

JCMHomer:

Yes, I've done "whatever" needed to be done.

Why?
Cause my W became an expert liar, deceiver, actress and manipulator During her 2+ yr stint as a WS.

WS's and the OP's play this "GAME" hard:
Hence the only way to beat these tactics is to be willing to "play even harder".

[In fact, I really think your "scheme" of having a fake call on answering machine is clever].

Cause that's how I got some of my information (by being Less than honest about what I really did or did not know).

Next:
Someone earlier mentioned Radical Honesty and its place In Recovery.

All true.

However, those rules are FOR Recovery .

If the A is still Ongoing (or there is contact, ect) ....then YOU are NOT In recovery ...hence it doesn't apply (IMO).

The Goal is to end the A ....then get to healing.
Can't be putting the cart before the horse now.

Everyone knows you can't use these principles or even logic, when dealing with these illogical WS's.
To expect them to work BEFORE the A is over, is to invite only MORE frustration on yourself.

You can't be expected to play "fair" ....when NOTHING about this entire situation is FAIR .
As Tina Turner might sing "What's FAIR Got To Do With It, got to do with IT"???

In addition,
You know what they say about Love & War?
Well, infidelity in a M = both love and war.

NOT saying become a total liar yourself.(about your intentions, feelings, ect)
Simply that playing a little underhanded (to get to the truth) and thereby GETTING TO the "saving the marriage" part .....is often times necessary.

If any don't agree, then your WS must have seen the light a whole lot faster than mine ever did.
So I'm pleased for you that you never had to "go there".

(To be clear):
I used this type of tactic a couple of times only. [and nothing to this extreme]
But it worked for me, so I'd use them again if need be.

Suppose like most things here ....it all comes down to personal perspective.
A deceiver cannot hold me accountable for using their own tricks, schemes and angles against them.

Yes, in an ideal world "tricking" a spouse wouldn't be necessary.
But in my ideal world; I never would have needed to come Here in the first place.
Unfortunately, I've ended up doing and being a whole host of things I never thought I'd do or be as a result of my W's cheating and lying.

Judge me if you want ....but I'm satisfied with the results.
**************

If you chose to take the high ground, I applaude you for doing so. Glad it worked for YOU!