I am amazed at the hostility towards OP.

I for one believe that very little time is spent with overt hostility in most of the posts here towards the OP

wasted energy expenditure of hostility has no part in plan A or plan B...so while it certainly blips on the radar screen and certainly holds value in assisting BS muddle through this...it's not something that a lot of time is spent on here.....

..but it would be almost cruel to deny BS their feelings AND deny that the OP don't deserve hostile feelings....

OP are hostile entities to a marriage...their actions spent with the WS are also a direct attact on the safety both financially and emotionally of the BS and even more importantly all children involved...

they are not powerless victims forced to be a third party innerloper.....they are innerlopers...and are actively engaging in destructive behavior...inspite of the WS..they also choose their route...

either marriage and marriage vows mean something or they don't...
one can not claim to value marriage EXCEPT when they find themselves involved with a married person and then suddenly "his or her" marriage is different.

"his or her" marriage was already over before I the OP showed up

"his or her" marriage is seperate from what we have...

"i the OP didn't take or break vows...the WS did"

etc etc etc...

even the history of weddings....in society....is more than ugly bridesmaids dresses, a chicken dinner, and some drunk man slobbering in to a microphone ...or even the YMCA dance

It is a call for the community to come out and support people in their marriage...most christian marriages infact include the statement...what God has joined let no man put asunder...most wedding ceremonies are in churches are public...meaning anyone can attend the religious part....

we are called to support people in marriage...
not assist in its destruction
not assist in society's undermining and demeaning view of it...
NOT to turn it in to a state that only has meaning between the people who spoke the vows...we need people to support us in our marriages that are outside of our marriage...what we don't need is people to intrude and destroy that space...

denying the role of OP in the destruction of a marriage...denies the onus of responsibility we all have in standing up for the importance of marriage...if we undermine the OP role...we undermine our own role in not playing a part in tearing down marriages....

and you guys know that I am not a save every marriage at every and any cost...but I also know that I will take no part in destroying anyones marriage...either in word or action...and I believe we are all called to do the same....

OP are wrong in what they do...no matter if the WS begs and pleads till the cows come home..they still have the opportunity to say no...and they choose not to..

and their choice hold grave consequences....as it should...for what they do is destructive....that's not a judgement...that's a fact....

ARK^^

I think it is very healthy to feel anger towards folks who do cruel things, BS or not. Decent people are supposed to be outraged at injustice, no matter who it happens to; no matter who commits the act of cruelty. I feel anger towards other folks' OP's and WS' because of the cruelty they pile on the BS and family. One doesn't have to be the target of cruelty to feel outraged at injustice. Cruelty should outrage everyone, whether it happens to them or their neighbor. That has nothing to do with recovery, or lack thereof, but with simple common decency.

Ark,

That was sooo good! I never thought about all of that before in that way. For once the feelings that I have towards FOW really make sense to me now and why I have them. And now that it has almost been a year that we have been recovering I think of her less and less. If we don't have a sighting then I do even better.

I think you are right about not seeing many hostile posts about OP. I hardly read that many other than maybe someone feeling bad about a sighting or something of that nature. But it is normal to feel bad about seeing someone or something that has hurt you and your children so badly.


HINY

Ark, what you wrote explains my feelings perfectly. Before H had his A I felt that way. I have always disliked people who get into others' Ms under the guise of, "Well, they were already having problems in their M. If it was a good M then the WS wouldn't be so unhappy." Every M goes through difficulty and wouldn't it be great if people would support the M instead of using the difficulty as an opportunity to tear it down.

Oddly enough we were talking about this very subject in MC yesterday. Our OW was a predator. As many of you know H and I were having a very difficult, stressful year because of sicknesses and deaths. I knew the bi***. She knew me and my children. She moved in for the kill probably within a month of H's dad's death. It somehow made me feel a bit better knowing she was the active pursuer and the one who kept encouraging H to go for it when he wanted to stop before it turned PA. I never let him off the hook, but my hate went to her. In MC I talked about how over the past few months I am now grieving even more the fact that he went forward with the PA. I am focusing more intensely on him now.

We were driving around last night and we passed this bar that is OW's favorite place. H barely noticed it. Suddenly I found myself going off on a tirade of spewing all sorts of venom at OW, mostly for not caring about my boys. It was about 10 mnutes woth of venting. So I guess I still hate her guts. I still wish her nothing but ill will. In time I'll get over that, but I ain't there yet. I agree about the sisterhood comment too. Doing this to another woman, another human, is beyond low. Unlike you Bob I've never fantasized about violence against OW, I just know I could humiliate the crap out of her given the opportunity. It's best to keep her out of our lives and in her scummy little world. CV

I feel tremendous unresolved anger towards the OW. Perhaps this is anger at my FWH that I am displacing onto her.

Whatever it is, it's there. I've gone to IC; prayed over & over; talked to myself; posted/read here extensively; read books on forgiveness. I am still stuck with it.

HT4J,

ME TOO! I ask for help with forgiveness everyday, it just isn't working. I think it may be one of those time things again that I hate so much. I just cant help it. FOW knew me and my children, saw us at family functions....pushing young son in a stroller...dancing and having a good time and still honed in on our M. Hard to not have hateful feelings towards someone that hurt your children anyway. I can't think of one mother that I know that doesn't instinctly protect their children. I think that is most of it for me. My children were hurt so badly, I tear up thinking of it still.

HINY

Hmmm I think the only anger I have towards OP stems from her continuos invasion of my house to plant little psycho presents (decapitated toys, toy arms, legs, photos). Talk about being sick in the head!
Appart from that she never has occupied much thought on my whole recovery process. Sometimes I actually feel some pitty for her.
She is not very bright (to all accounts she didn't even know where Mexico was in the map, neither Canada), she is getting rather old and is single and with a badly paying job. I saw her photo and well... I always thought she'd be prettier.

The person I was always mad at since D-Day was my FWH, because for one moment of insanity he had nearly switched us. Of course he always claimed that he regained his senses moments after all had happened and was so ashamed he foggified himself.
Still it took me years to forgive him, and I am not sure I am 100% there yet.
What can I say, I am a proud woman.

My anger can be traced to the fact that in the early days of this, before I found MBers, I confronted OM twice. On both occassions he had, what I regarded as a chance to be a man and be honest about what was going on. He failed on both occassions. I guess I should not have expected him to be a man. But nonetheless, as a result, I could care less about any ill effects my litigation will have on his life.



"the wheels are turning on the last train to Amsterdam"
Ray Wylie Hubbard

This is an intersting thread and I think to some degree or another, we all struggle a bit in this area.
My WW originally put 80% of blame for what happened on OM. So for me, it was easy to jump on that band wagon. Why?
It's as Cardor says in "Torn Assunder", it becomes far too easy to "excuse" your WS that it does to "forgive" them.
It finally dawned on me that I was falling in that trap too, and it severely hindered our recovery.
It wasn't till I came to the painful realization that "It takes two to tango", did the real work of recovery even start, for me.
This has been a sticking point in our recovery, as, it far to easy for WS to divert blame away from themselves, and thus, dilute the shame and guilt that they themselves must now endure.
The only true answer then, comes in the form of forgiveness for both. Very hard to do but it goes hand and hand with your own peace of mind. You can't have one without the other IMHO.
I, like bOb, carried weapons of destuction around with me looking for OM. He seemed to have enough sence to hide, as he moved to a friends house and rented a car for 6 mos. so I wouldn't recognise him LOL. At this point that's enough for me, for my own satisfaction. He made a laughing stock of himself in front of the one or two people who knew.(Including my WW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) Let OP go and focus on recovery and it will go much smother IMHO.
Jerry

***either marriage and marriage vows mean something or they don't...
one can not claim to value marriage EXCEPT when they find themselves involved with a married person and then suddenly "his or her" marriage is different.

"his or her" marriage was already over before I the OP showed up

"his or her" marriage is seperate from what we have...

"i the OP didn't take or break vows...the WS did"
etc etc etc...***

Ark, I so agree with this, and I have said the same myself. It amazes me that people who want their *own* marriages to be respected suddenly have NO respect for anyone else's, and honestly think that's okay!

An OP is an intruder and an invader. They know damn well they have no more right to crawl around inside someone else's marriage than they do to crawl around inside someone else's home.

Hiker, would you really not be angry at someone who broke into your home, messed with your things and took some of them away? If this has never happened to you, you have NO idea of how violated and enraged you are when you discover this.

The OP does the same thing. The BS's feelings of rage and violation are no different. Just because a WS was stupid enough to let the OP come in will not change the BS's feelings.
Mulan

Threads like this always make me go hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, because I wonder how in the world anger ever got such a bad rap? Don't people know that righteous anger is a good thing? I just thought everyone knew the difference between healthy anger and unhealthy anger. I think some have lumped ALL anger into the "unhealthy" category, which is a huge mistake. We should get angry at evil and injustice, that is a sign of human decency. There is no virtue or humanity in sitting by like a dead tree stump in the face of cruelty. Anger is not a bad thing!

Mel:

You and I are on the same wavelength. You call it "RIGHTEOUS" ANGER. I like that.

I was thinking that my anger is JUSTIFIABLE, REASONABLE AND EXPECTED! My ANGER towards the FOW just IS....

She tried to destroy me and my family. She would do it again if she could. She is open about her distaste for MARRIAGE. "I am his WOMAN, you are his WIFE". YUK!!!

I am certain that she will eventually "BURN IN HELL"!!

I agree with you MelodyLane...

I think anger is good. We need anger to get past certain things in life.

I also have to say that YES, I am angry at the OP. She knew my WH was married and continued the affair. Of course my WH is the one that had the commitment but I think him and her are both equally to blame for the distruction of my marriage. I have nothing good to say about either of them and hope that one day they will get what they deserve. Maybe that won't be until they face judgement day in front of God.

Hi ML(haven't talked to you in a while),
Saw your reply and you said,

I would only add IMHO, unless that anger defaces YOUR virtue or humanity in such a way as to be DESTRUCTIVE to YOU. Then what? Doesn't low life OP then OWN you?
Where's the escape route? How do you own your own thoughts and feelings and hope for the future?
Food for thought.
Jerry

LOL

well hurtnheart

I was [color:"red"] waaaaaaaaay [/color] more angry at my husband. Just ask him !!! ~LOL~ In fact, there was very little anger remaining for the OW until she lied to me over the phone ... and then I felt angry for that lie.

Do you think I was wrong to be angry at her?

Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Jerry, escape from what? I think we should differentiate between healthy righteous anger and frivolous resentments. Unhealthy anger would be to nurse a grudge/resentment, but anger at cruel behavior is not unhealthy.

For example, I am angry at the pedophile who raped and killed poor Jessica Lundsford in Florida, but that is not an unhealthy anger. Does that mean I don't own my thoughts and feelings? Of course it doesn't. It just means, as a decent person, I am outraged at injustice.

Are you getting all this hurtnheart.LOL

If you don't mind my saying so,questions like these always surprise me because it's very clear.ALL anger stems from a source of pain and it's a surprise to you that when a person has sex with another married person who happens to be,say,YOUR husband that you would not feel anger? This OP is just as much to blame as the WS.

Yes my WH made some terrible choices and according to him,he was hurting too for whatever reasons he failed to talk to me about BUT,it's just as "nefarious" to coax another who is in pain and feed them lies or fantasies of a better life and that you are so much better than the spouse,etc,etc.Everytime the homewrecker spread her legs when WH was in town,she is to blame.Every time she hugged and kissed my husband when he got home from work,she was to blame.Everytime she answered his call,instead of saying "NO,You are a married man,you need to go get counseling with your W" or told him that she wanted to be with him(married man),she was to blame.As much as it was he who initiated or agreed to these actions.

Cmon.OP are NOT INNOCENT.The are both(WS/OP) responsible adults making selfish decisions.

All of this has probably already been said but I just had to jump to the end since this topic really gets my goat.

O

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! to all of your posts!

I am loving this!

"OUTRAGED BY INJUSTICE"! YES! YES!

O'GIRL, OMG, YOU SAID IT ALL!!!!!

Hil ML,
I feel your righteous anger unveiling itself here.
That's OK if it's Ok with you.
You said,
For example, I am angry at the pedophile who raped and killed poor Jessica Lundsford in Florida, but that is not an unhealthy anger.
ML, you're comparing apples with oranges here. Of course we are all outraged at such a despicable act! But the thing is , We will never have the right to sit in judgement! It is not our function on this earth. I can't expound too much or I'll get hit in the head with a 2x4 from WAT. LOL
The bottom line is, recovery is based entirely on forgiveness, not righteous anger. JMHO
Jerry

Oh man.The Judgement issue.

Stand back!

I wish I didn't have to go to work.Miss Mellie,go easy on him now.LOL