I believe that forgiveness is for those that are repentant.

The FOW, in my case, is not!

She is evil. She does not believe that what she was doing was wrong and would begin the destructive process again today if she could.

I have forgiven my FWH because he is repentant, says he is sorry, shows me that he is sorry every day, tells me about what he did wrong, has strategies on what he has to do so that it will never happen again...

This is the forgiveness that is part of RECOVERY..

I will forgive the OW when she begs for my forgiveness.

Shinethrough

what do you do for a living?

just curious

Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

We will never have the right to sit in judgement! It is not our function on this earth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

you can NOT be serious....

If you lie to me...
I will judge you to be a liar
If you lie to other people
I will still judge you to be a liar

that is not a right..
it is a fact

And with other stuff....the feeling angry stuff....therapists are rolling in the doe...over people going to them for fixing or eradicating NORMAL feelings....

"please therapist help me NOT feel so angry over the person who engaged in actions that were a direct threat to my (known) life and my children's life..."
help me not to feel that way..
and when that works I will need therapy to learn how to feel again..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />




ARK^^

Jerry, we are COMMANDED to judge right from wrong. Our prisons are full of folks who cannot, and that is exactly where they should be. Righteous anger has nothing to do with recovery and should be differentiated from resentments and grudges. There is a huge difference. Decent people should ALWAYS be angry at injustice, there is nothing unhealthy about that.

I will always have righteous anger at cruel acts, regardless of whether it was directed at me or not. Recovery is never contingent upon forgiveness, as forgiveness may never come if the perpetrator does not want it.

PEP,
I feel from question like I'm being lured into a trap. LOL
I am a very blue collar worker for a very fundamental industry that has existed since the turn of the centure. LOL
If you truly want more, I will reply. But let me just say that I am not some kind of evangelist or minister and anything else that might be construed as noble in any way shape or form.
I suppose from my point of view, that you consider me as some kind of idiot. I, sometimes, must agree, that I fit the bill in every shape and size. HEHE, ask ML, she'll be glad to agree, I'm sure.
Blessings,
Jerry

jeezzzzzzzzzz

I withdraw the question ... nevermind

Pep

Naw, she won't! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think one of the reasons we become entrenched with anger at the OP....and not in the "forgiveness" mode is because for the most part...we never have the opportunity to work through that side of the issue. When we find forgiveness for our spouses...it's because we see/hear/feel the remorse, we have our questions answered, we get to talk about with them and we have ongoing contact which gives us the TIME to do it. The anger with the OP is often unresolved and unrepented...it makes moving past that far more difficult...even impossible for some.

But I fall on the side of those who say that affairs are preventable from EVERY side...not just the WS side. The WS gets the FIRST shot at it...but not the ONLY shot. *takes two to tango* There is a lack of integrity and ethics all around. EITHER the WS OR the OP could stop the affair and that leaves both equally responsible for the damage it causes.

Shining Through...everyone of us "sits in judgement" every day of our lives. We make snap judgments, calculated judgements, informed judgements...it's in fact VITAL for our survival that we do too. (That looks dangerous. This man is not a good marriage prospect. That woman is strange) Do you think when Moses came down from the mountain he reserved judgement? What we are NOT allowed to do is exact punishment (that's for our local law enforcement and ultimately God)...but nobody in the bible shies away from calling a sinner a sinner....and steering clear of their sorry asses so they don't get sucked into their chaos.

damn, she explained that good!

Post deleted by shinethrough

Don't worry about it ... no problem
Pep

Exactly my point(which I'm sur I did not expose concisely enough)
takes two to tango* There is a lack of integrity and ethics all around. EITHER the WS OR the OP could stop the affair and that leaves both equally responsible for the damage it causes.
I think that's exactly what I have been trying in my inempt way to say. It's just that ultimately, I am trying to say, what if culprit in any case decides to repent and asks for God's forgiveness, but never asks, for our? Who's forgiveness is more important. I feel, that Gosd's forgiveness is always going to be the one that counts. Does this make any sense. The OP in many cases may have asked for and received God's forgiveness, long before and if ever, OUR forgiveness.
Jerry

Jerry, you said:



I see your point. I can agree with this.

However, the FOW in my case was clear, at least when she was with my FWH, that she was not a Christian. She encouraged him to stop going to church with us so that he could be with her on Sundays while we went to church. YUK! Of course, he went along with her on this... He did his equal part as you say...

However, I really doubt that she has asked GOD for forgiveness. I do continue to pray for her though or else I do believe that she will burn in hell....

I think a truly remorseful person does apologize to their victim - if they even want forgiveness. Otherwise, they are likely not remorseful.

We should always be willing to forgive, if asked, but that doesn't mean that we don't become outraged at injustice. Decent people hate evil and are rightfully outraged at injustice. That does not preclude forgiveness if forgiveness is warranted.

mimi1254.
Good points,
But again I reiterate, Whose forgiveness really counts?
Ours or God's?
I guess it really hinge's on one's perspective. I wish you all blesings in your recovery,
Jerry

I think a truly remorseful person would seek both. If I harmed a person, their forgiveness would count very much and God would expect me to seek it and make amends. So, my answer is that they BOTH count very much, as it indicates the person's sincerity.

Hi Ml(you're not angry at me are you?)
YOu said: I think a truly remorseful person does apologize to their victim - if they even want forgiveness. Otherwise, they are likely not remorseful.
You see, their reemorse, if there is any, is not likely to be with us and is not nearly as important as is is with their God and Creator.
Without repentance for their sin, there can be no admitance, if you will, to Paradise. Do you think God would ever allow sin to enter His home? Of course not! So what OP feels about us, their disrespect for us, and marriage, is insigficant, compared to God's judgement. I hope I myself clear on this, b/c I am not the one to be a mouthpiece of what God wants. I only know what I feel, not what I KNOW.
Jerry

I think a sincerely remorseful person does feel remorseful towards their victim, otherwise I would question the sincerity of their "remorse." When I harm someone, I want to make amends and gain their forgiveness, because I have sinned against them AND against God. And if I am not even sincere, I know God would see through that. The bottom line is that we should use God's standard of forgiveness, which applies when the person is repentent and when they SEEK our forgiveness. Otherwise, there is nothing to forgive.

And of course I am not mad at ya, Jerry! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

^^^^^I already accepted your apology. See above^^^^^

Don't worry about it.

No worries.

Pep

mimi1254,
The true CREDIT to you is this plain and simple truth:
I really doubt that she has asked GOD for forgiveness. I do continue to pray for her though
Do you begin to see my point?
That's exactly what we are expected to do through Christ.
Jerry