Of course you insist that it end immediately. That IS part of plan A. The whole intent is to END the AFFAIR....not to let it keep going on. And as long as you don't insist that it end, it WILL keep going on and on and on.

Expose...and not just to your wife, and OM's wife. Expose to both your family and your WW's. Expose to ANYONE who knows them both too...if it's work related, expose there too.

The intent is to make everyone aware of it. And that will prevent them from carrying it on in secret, which is the only way they know how to do it. Once everyone knows, and she is forced to see how wrong what she is doing is, it begins to destroy that fantasy aspect of it.

The whole intention of exposure and plan A IS to end the affair.

TA- yes, I know I'm new to this. That is why I keep coming back to write about all this.

Owl- Of course I want to end it, I was just saying that HOW I go about saying that is tricky. I guess there is no good way to accuse someone of cheating...

OK, I'm confused... I thought it worked like this:
Plan A: Tell spouse & OP's spouse. Deemand they break contact.
If this doesn't work, go to:
Plan B: Tell a ever widening group of Spouse and OP's associates to get them to put pressure on the affair.

I'm NOT an MB guru...I've applied a lot of the principles to things in my own situation, but we began recovery BEFORE I knew about MB.

But...here's MY understanding of Plan A and B:

Plan A: Identify as many of your WS's emotional needs, and begin working to fulfill those as best as possible. At the same time, work to end the affair. This means letting your spouse know how much what they're doing hurts you. And it often includes EXPOSING that affair to everyone who could potentially assist you in guiding your WS to end the affair.

Plan B: Used ONLY after plan A has failed most times. Plan B entails removing yourself from the situation as completely as possible, to safegaurd yourself. It also forces the OP to meet ALL of your WS's emotional needs, instead of just a select few. In other words, it puts the pressures of reality back into the affair relationship. Most of those relationships aren't capable of supporting that strain, and so this often leads to the end of the affair. Once the affair has ended, and the WS has made the choice to return to the BS, THEN reconciliation can begin, and contact between the spouses can resume.

That's my understanding at least.

Why have you not called Steve Harley?

Gramn,

You REALLY need to take this time to do two things. 1 prove beyond any doubt she is having the affair. Yes, there is no doubt but you have to have her trapped with no way out. No excuses. It must be exposed and ended. That will mean NO MORE Y membership. Non negotiable.

The other thing is you have to take this time to figure out what you REALLY want. You need to begin to get beyond this. She will need you to be there for her. It is the best way to let her know you are willing to fight for the marriange and not fight with her.

The way I was able to do this was to be honest with myself. Was I an ideal husband...No not at all. I would not have wanted to be with myself. Also, deep down you can say "how could you do this to me" or "I could never do that". I am willing to bet you have thought about what it would be like to have someone who "understands" you or loves you unconditionally. Once I was able to realize this I could forgive. Not forget. You have to learn from your mistakes.

I was 99.9% sure my wife would leave. how would someone who treated me like S**T ever want to stay. I saw all the mushiness and things I was missing that she had with the OM. I was just like you. We ALL were.

You need to stand up and be a man. It does not mean you coddle her and give in to her demands and there will be plenty. It means you being there for her as a shoulder to cry on and fight for your marriage. These are admirable qualities. You dont accept all the blame and you dont pass the blame either. You talk about how you feel and what was missing. She will blame you for everything. You take it but peacefully reminder her you made mistakes but did nothing to deserve her having an affair. That was her CHOICE. You are willing to work to get beyond that and try to recapture what you had. She wont let you initially but you have to be persistant. She will come around. If she doesnt then you are probably better off.

This will be the hardest thing you have ever done. Why should you be so selfless after what has been done. You need to be. You have to show her you are the knight in shining armor. The armor is a little rusty but it can be cleaned up.

Some people dont advocat telling the OMW. Why drag another innocent into this mess. If it were me however I would want to know. It also creates tension at both ends of the affair. She cannot run to OM cause OMW is on to him and watching every move. It exposes all the ugliness and hurt. Most of the women on here and experiences I have read tell me that men typically will NOT leave their wives for the other women. So much for her soul mate. When it is not convienient for him he will show his true colors and the fantasy dies.

Just use this time to make a better you. And dont wallow in the self pity. Stand up and fight. I am sure your wife will see how serious you are. My wife initally said she never knew I was so strong and cared for her that much. She would also say she just didnt know if she could ever feel that connection. It is all a very long roller coaster ride. 10 months in and we still take an occasional long ride down. But they are fewer and far between. And I was just as hopeless as you are now. Just listen to the people that have come through. I am still getting there and am now about 99.9% sure I will make it. There are no set timelies and no guarentees. But you can make yourself better and stronger from this experience. It is a cliche on here but many people will tell you I am not thankful for the affair and the hell I/we went through but I am thankful for how it has actually improved my marriage.

Another wonderful post from Feelin Groovy....

I would recommend ACTION now... not just reading and writing here.

Like TA has questioned, what about the session with Steve Harley?

Have you gathered all the information you need on the Y Guy?

BTW, your WW will try to instigate arguments with you in order to make you into the BAD GUY, in order to rationalize the A.

We are encouraging you not to adopt the role that she will try to place you in. Become the KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOR! Don't think about becoming that person. BECOME THAT PERSON!! Yes it is hard but it can be done.

PLAN A involves NO LOVEBUSTING. That means NO DEMANDS. However, it is essential to NEGOTIATE a PLAN for her to end the A. That is once it is FULLY EXPOSED!!

You have gotten extremely valuable and helpful info. here.

Now it's time to GET TO WORK...

I'm trying to figure out what to do every day. And please don't think I'm ignoring the advice here. I take it seriously.

I want to talk to Steve after I have a little more info on the A. I don't want to spend the money and have him say "find out what is going on first". I KNOW that!

So, currently I'm trying to be the best husband I can be, meeting a few EN and not LBing while staying out of her way and not accusing her of anything (yet.)

Thanks again for the support.

Damn, TA, what the heck? I come here looking for advice and ideas, not to be crapped on. I already feel like [censored] to begin with.

On one hand you say I'm not taking your advice and playing detective, and on another you say that my "#1 job is to break up the affair". Isn't that the point of the "detective" stuff??

And as far as working on me vs being a good husband, I think that's all semantics. Of course I'm trying to work on me. Maybe considering that "being a good husband" is wrong...

Gramn,

I had to learn this the hard way myself.

You are in charge of your life. You can do whatever you like with the advice you get here. Unfortunately, some people here believe that just because they went to the trouble to cook up some advice for you that you owe it to them to follow it. You owe them nothing but your courtesy, and if they can't accept that - and respect your right to make your own choices - then they are out of line.

This is a public forum on the World Wide Web. Anybody in the entire world can post here. Some of them should just be ignored. Don't let one unpleasant person drive you away. There are a lot of very helpful and respectful people here.

-AD

Gramm, you are right on. Your strategy is to gather more evidence and by the end of next week, [I think] you can confront your W and expose to the OM's W. Expose to the OMW first and then confront your W. Let your W know that you have also told her and ask that she end the affair. She will likely refuse.

You do not threaten or tip your hand, but when she refuses to end the affair, you wait a few days and then start exposing to the other people on your list. I think at the top of your list should be the Y-Man's boss and from there, go down the list.

Whatever you do, don't forewarn her you are going to expose her, ok?

The idea is to bust up the affair and by doing that, she withdraws from the OM and comes back into the marriage as long as you continue to welcome her with your Plan A. See what I mean? That is the long term strategy. The first step in that strategy is busting up the affair, though.


You are doing just fine. Take it easy, take it slow. You are a man with a mission. Stay on the mission, soldier.

Plan B comes much much later, so don't even concern yourself with that right now.

I agree with Mel in thinking that you are doing great.

I notice the change in your mindset. You have a PLAN. That's a major shift for you....

Stay on Course, SOLDIER!

Don't let her steer you off.

Keep in touch with us.

Well, I'll keep checking in as I can.

Well, another day has passed and no new clues.
I'm wondering if she has just become more paranoid and has taken this "underground" so I won't find out about it, or if there is just not much to find?

2 minor developments:
She changed her cell phones voicemail access number. I can't listen to that any more.

She bought some shoes and said that she didnt. That is not affair related, but is dishonest...

Well, after getting along in the same house really well lately, she finally got crazy today. After noticing some of my email headings about "relationship rescue" type stuff, She was saying that she wanted me to leave. I said that that we'd work everything out. We need to know how we'll both make money and all that before we move anywere. and that maybe SHE might be the one to move out since she wants to seperate. Well that really got her flipped out. She took the baby and drove away. She came back about an hour later and hasn't really talked to me since.

I don't want ANY of us to leave. And I REALLY don't want her trying to take our daughter anywhere. Now, i don't think she wants to be forced out, but if she goes, then she wants to bring the baby...

Tell her she can't take the baby from your home. If she wants to separate, tell her you would rather work things out, but would hate to see her go. And like you said, if she wants to separate, then she has to be the one to leave, you and the baby aren't going anywhere. Be nice, smile sweetly and don't let her bait you into a fight, ok?

You are calm, cool, collected. A soldier with a mission.

By next Friday, if you haven't gleaned any new intelligence it might be a good idea to have that little discussion about her affair. What do you think?

I am proud of you for not letting her manipulate you into leaving your own home. You handled that very well!

gramm

you are doing well and handling her last attempt to manipulate you was very good. Have you noticed that when ever you begin to question her behaviour she starts to talk separation/blah blah blah?
This is a very well practised move IMHO...probably worked for some time ...maybe you need to ponder this point in regards to the overall relationship as well...has it been going on before the Affair??
Really great advice gramm that you are getting and its good to ask questions as well!
Remember, daughter DOES NOT leave home, her running off in hapless manner with her is EXACTLY why she should not take her in that frame of mind.
All the best, keep going on as you are youre doing ok

Well, based on an email I intercepted abut a week ago, I think Y Guy is back from his vacation today.

And, lest I forget, Wife was wearing a sexy new thong sticking out of her workout pants today. Now, she normally does wear thong underwear, but not necessarilly NEW, brightly colored, sticking out of the pants, ones!!

This is driving me crazy! What the hell can I do about this? If I show up at the Y, what would I find anyway? The two of them exercising? It's not like I can run around flinging open every coat closet and saying "A-HA!" I'll just look crazy!

I've still got the computer bugged, but that isn't doing me much good today!

So, as a last ditch plan, I "Forgot" my lunch at home. I'll unexpectedly go home at lunch and probably not find anything...