To follow her, of course.

Mel:

Exactly what I was thinking-about the sitter!

Plus, assignment for tomorrow is to buy a carseat! What if there was an emergency?

Well, she told me that she is at Olive Garden. I told her that I wanted her to bring me a desert, and she read me the desert menu, so I think that she is there.

BUT, with whom?

Gramm, if you are still there, I would work on hiring a P.I. pronto to have her tailed. He will take pictures and then you will be prepared to bust her. Its too bad you couldn't have her tailed tonight, because I am wagering she is meeting him tonight.

By pronto, I don't mean tonight, of course. But starting as soon as you can this week.

Hey buddy hang in there. I have a feeling the end (or the true beginning) is near.

You have to keep it under control though. I know it is easier said than done. We have all been there and are here to listen and offer what we can. You get lots of advise on this board but you have to take what you can use. We all claim to have the same story and do for the most part but we all made our own mistakes along the way.

I know this will sound horrible and deceiptful on your part but you have to make her comfortable and not suspicious that you are on to her. You have to make it convienient so she relaxes on you. That is when mistakes are made. You have to make it seem like you dont have a care in the world and are 100% trusting of her.

My WW had every excuse in the book and even told me "I could never look at our children if I did anything like that...it is not in my character." When I got the Not in Love speech I accused her of having an affair. She told me "I had damaged her to much to be with another person". I believed all of that for about 2 minutes. I pretended to trust her and it ripped me up inside and consumed me. But I seceretly kept looking and looking and looking. The email is the best way in my opinion. Do you have a key logger or just her password to her new account. They could be sending Instant Messages through out the day and bypassing email. A key logger will let you see all the keystrokes that are made. Try eblaster. Also she may be on to you snooping so set up another account to email etc from.

I would suggest not following her. If you get caught she will know that you dont trust her and will leave to be with OM. You need to swallow your pride and fight fire with fire. You are lying and deceiving to protect your marriage and to me that is noble. Also if you catch her and the OM what are you going to do? At best you get to witness what you really dont want to see first had. At worst you get to act out your anger on the OM and your wife. Too many bad things can happen when you confront both of them. Most likely you will catch them together doing nothing and you will lose your cool and look like an [censored].

A PI can be a big waste of money. However the Wed night thing is very intriguing. It sounds like they are having trouble connecting since his return. A girls night out is a lame excuse to go out. Have you seen any emails for any of the "girls" discussing plans for Wednesday. If not hire the PI but you should be sure. I went out of town and missed the day they were together by one day. Overall it cost me about $1000.00 to get a video and her "running buddy" MAYBE kissing and him removing his running shorts in the car. WOW what a find. Eblaster costs $30 and I had my proof in about 2 days. Plus it is in writting. No way out of that one.


The big thing is keep cool and lay low. Trust me if she is on to you that you are on to her it will only prolong this and leave her with no option but to leave to be with him. That is why Plan A is so effective now. Dont give her a reason to go. Make it hard on her. I love the advise of the others. Put it back on her in a nice but firm way. "If it is that miserable for you...leave. I am choosing to really work at this". Make her do all the work to get it done.

I actually think your counselor is right to some extent. Sit down and really talk with her about her leaving. Tell her you dont want her to go but if she needs to it is her choice. Start discussing some of the issues you have to deal with. Custody, Lawyers, leases/mortgage, money. Again tell her you dont WANT her to go but you have to accept her choice. I am willing to bet this will freak her out. All of a sudden she will have responsibility. You are not leaving. It is her choice and she has to suffer the consequeces of her actions. You have parental rights as well. Be as tough as you can but gentle. No argueing. Just smile and say I am trying to understand what you want. Isnt that what the MC told you that you had to come to grips with. Reverse psycology can be a powerfull weapon.

As odd as this sounds YOU have the upper hand right now. You know her dirty little secret. You are in the driver seat. You can start to manipulate her. It is not revenge as much as using all you have to try to save the marriage. Once this is out in the open you MUST drop the sword but right now is the battle for your marriage. What is the saying...all is fair in love and war. You have to make it physically possible to see the Y Guy but mentally taxing on her to do so. A fine line

Ever see the Exorcist? Your wife is the girl whose neck spins around. She is possessed. Once you beat the devil (I hate to use religious examples) out of her she will be back but a broken version of her old self. You have to be there to help her out and get her through. Then you may actually start getting some of the things you need. It is a long road so be patient. You are just at the begining.

Thanks for all of that Feeling Groovy.

I AM using several spyware programs, but they are trials, so they have problems. That is how I got her new email account info though. I'll try your E-blaster tonight.

I'm nervous about a lot of these sleuthing options that are expensive. NOT that I don't think my marriage is worth it, but because she is usually the one to look closely at the bills. If I paid a PI or got some fancy gadget, she would notice something on the bank or credit card statments. (Maybe I just need the right cover story)

I am good friends with the husband of one of the "Girls Night Out" women. I will ask him what he knows about it and see if it matches what my wife says.

P.S. This sucks. I'm stuck here feeling like crap and now I've got a crying baby who doesn't want to go to sleep...

fg, I should point out that he does have a keylogger on the computer and has for over a week now. He hasn't come up with anything concrete, which is why he needs to tail her or have her tailed. He has good reason to suspect they are together or are planning to get together soon. He is in dire need of some hard evidence right now to blow this affair wide open, and that is the immediate goal.

I am sorry you had a bad experience with a P.I., but many others here have had positive experiences, so I wouldn't be so quick to rule them out. I am not sure why you think she would leave to be with the OM. That doesn't usually happen in general and likely wouldn't happen here because the OM is married. Even so, it shouldn't be deterrent to investigation.


I am competely confused about this statement and wonder if you could elaborate? I don't know of Gramm doing any lying or deceiving?

I guess I lied by saying that I wouldn't check up on her any more.

She just called and is coming home already (with my desert). She couldn't have been at the restaurant for more than 40 minutes. So, I guess I didn't miss much if anything...

Gramm, do you have Actmon trial version on your computer? If you do, please email me because I have something to tell you that might resolve your problem. Did you know that many of the keyloggers will show a banner upon restart if they are in trial version?

As far as her girls night out, is there not someone you could get to tail her? Some friend? A relative? Also, you don't have to pay a P.I. on a credit card. You could pay him in cash so it wouldn't be traced.

Gramn:

I caught my FWH twice. Looking back on it, the first D-Day was the beginning of the end of his A. Yes, it was ugly. Yes, I was very upset. However, I had prepared myself. I was onto him kind of like you are. I had to see if for myself. I had been in denial too long. My denial enabled his A. Also, my denial of what seemed obvious to him made him think that I didn't care about him.

The exposure of the A made it start to seem ugly to my FWH. The fairy tale was over. They could no longer live in their romanticized dream world. I spoiled it for them. I am so thankful that I did it. So I don't necessarily agree with Feelin Groovy about finding them if you feel that you can control yourself.

Even though I had a PI, I found them myself. The PI helped me find out important info like exactly where she lived and worked, the kind of car she drives, her license no. and telephone no., etc. He also found out some other important secrets that my H had. You can save money by specifically telling them when you want their services and what for. He charged me by the hour. So, if you say, I need your assistance Wed. night, for example, that will save you. I paid cash, using some extra money I had saved.

I don't think catching her will keep her from leaving you if that is her plan. Nor will catching her cause her to leave you. Even if she leaves, exposure is essential.

I agree you are just beginning....

Hang in there....

All I was getting is that Gramn is feeling a little guilty about all the James Bond activity as I liked to call it. And to some extent he should but he is doing what he is doing for the sake of his marriage which I feel is a noble cause. A marriage should have trust, Not BLIND Trust but trust. Eventually he will have to get that level of trust back.

You know once this is out in the open his WW will go down that road and he will get the "how dare YOu" speech. Anything to deflect responsibilty. The answer is simple. You did what you did because you care enough and want to work this out. That is noble. Despite what has happened he is still willing to work it out.

I am just saying yeah it sucks but get er done. It is hard to let go of that saftey net but eventually you do have to quit spying and get on with life.

I am not totally against PI and think it is a better option than tailing her himself. Not much good can come of that for anyone.

Yes Gramn think of a reason to call her Girl Friends husband and just drop that they are going out. If you normally would not talk to him dont call. You have to cut out suspicious activity yourself. You will get what you are after. IT takes time and I know it feels like an eternity

I agree 100% no matter what the outcome the affair must be exposed. I think she is just looking for you to give her that final reason to leave so it appears to be your fault. The truth is it took both of you to get here but she is responsible for the affair and should own up to that.

A few other bits of advise. Not sure if you drink but now is a good time to stop. It is a temporary fix that will only get you in trouble. Make sure you are still active and working out. If you are like me your heart is jumping out of your chest all the time. If so go see a doctor and get meds. Most importantly take care of yourself and work on fixing you. Your daughter needs you to be strong and fight for your family.

You are referring to his wife here, right? She is the one having the affair, so I am presuming you mean that SHE is the one who will have to get back that level of trust, since she is the one who broke the trust. That won't be up to him.


I agree very much that it is for a noble cause, but he has nothing to feel guilty about. I have been trying to convince him of this. There is nothing wrong with catching someone trying to destroy you behind your back. The police don't feel guilty when they catch drug dealers, that would be ridiculous. And Gramm would be ridiculous to feel guilty for protecting himself. It is not deceitful and it is not lying to catch someone lying and being deceitful.


Some here have done their own tailing with very good results, so I wouldn't discount it. Sure, a P.I. is probably better, but not everyone can afford it. I really like Mimi's idea to cut costs by pinpointing time frames to the P.I.

The spyware i use is called 007 Spy Software. It's good, but only owrks for the first hours that the computer has been turned on!

From my talks with my wife, one thing that, at least at this point, seems to be the case, is tht she is set on leaving me no matter if I expose this or not. Hopefully exposing this will turn things around, but I'm not so sure.

If I were to use a PI, I'd give him all of the info that I already have and just ask for a few blanks to be filled in.


Here is a question: IF this is just an EMOTIONAL affair, how would I get proof? It seems like it would be much harder to prove anything? I can't say, "AHA! You talked to that guy!"

I think you already have proof of an Emotional Affair with the E-mails. At the very least, there is an inappropriate, secret friendship. Do you think she can openly call his house and talk to him?

Don't worry about whether she'll leave or not. We'll see what happens.

You've got it on how to use the PI if that is your decision.

Gramm, I think she is just bluffing about leaving you in order to get you to back off and justify her single woman act. How would she support herself if she only works parttime? Is she independently wealthy? Does she have the money to get a house?

She hardly has any money besides mine. She expects us to divorce and for me to support her. (And she is looking for a better job)
---------------------------------------

Last night she sat down with me and wanted to know why I was being so paranoid. (Coming home for lunch, calling her at work, reading a book about affairs). She said"Do you think that the only reason that I am breaking up wiht you is another man?".... I just said that I was worried but kept if vague. She was especially upset that I called her boss at work. So, I have to be more discreet.

Gramm, I think her actions are not thought out at all. She is just a married woman trying to have a little fun, at your expense. Surely, she knows that even if divorced, you wouldn't have to support her. You would have to pay child support if she got the child. Maybe a small alimony for a while, but then she's on her own.

It's time to insert a little reality into her fantasy and put an end to this. I would try hard to get your evidence lined up and confront her. When you confront her, I would explain to her the facts, that you won't be supporting her in a divorce and that you would keep the baby. This is hoping that you would not want her to tear the baby from his own safe home for a sleazy affair.

Do you have plans to tail her/have her tailed on Wednesday?

Gramn:

I would ask her to stop referring to you as being paranoid. It's perfectly reasonable and acceptable for a husband to be concerned about his wife's actions particularly if those actions are destructive to the marriage. Tell her that you love her and have reason for concern about the status of your marriage. Why wouldn't you be concerned? She keeps saying that she plans to leave you. It would be more bizarre for you not to react.

I agree with Melody that she is trying to manipulate you and to get you to back off so that she continue to play with Y GUY. You are a WARRIOR, in a fight for your marriage and family. It is not OK for her to try to manipulate you with her alien thinking. It is not OK for her to expect alimony. It is not OK for her to assume that she would be able to leave and have custody of her baby when she is currently not acting in her child's best interest. She should be working to insure that your daughter grows up in a loving family with her father present in her life. What a tragedy it would be to lose you at such a young age! Right now your wife is certainly thinking selfishly as is the case with WSes.

So your mindset is: Wife, your actions indicate that you are not trustworthy and honest. Your goal is marital destruction. Therefore, I must do everything in my power to protect myself, my baby and my marriage. I will not lay down and let you walk all over me. I will stand tall and do the right thing.

Gramm-

Go to your local computer store, and look at the el-cheapo $9.99 CD software collection. You'll probably find a few cheap versions of spyware software that are actually full versions that do not display a banner. I think that mine was called XPCSpy or something like that...and it works fine.

On tailing the wife, or checking up on her. Do you have any friends from work or wherever that she might not recognize right away? Or that drive a vehicle that she wouldn't know?

If so, see if you can recruit one of THEM to help you out as needed. Heheh, guys like to think that they're James Bond, so it could be fun, and it they're smart, you'll be amazed at how well they can do.

It's a cheap alternative to a PI. Start checking the odometer on her car. If you know how far it is to the Y or wherever she's going, you can spot discrepancies in her story that way too. I THINK I remember you saying she changed the billing option on her phone...but you should still be able to get access to an online invoice as well...most companies have them.