All good stuff you are getting from these folks Gramn. I only have a minute right now, as I am headed to a meeting. But the question about keeping the baby away from her is answered like this...

My wife was a SAHM until right before the affair. I liked the idea of her with the kids. She was there everyday, and did the day-to-day stuff for them until I got home from work.

But, during the affair, that wasnt my wife. If this person that looked like my wife could continue to make such poort choices, then how could I trust her to make the right choices for my kids. I couldnt.

The only way I could guarantee that my kids were kept in the same environment and being taught the same things that her and I brought them up on was to not let them leave with her. That didnt mean that she couldnt see them. She went out and got a condo...one that would not accomodate three children...which helped me keep them because I still had the house with the three bedrooms.

The kids could spend the night anytime she wanted them...except school nights. I laid down the law on that one. She could come get them after school (had to let me know first) and keep them for the evening. But they had to be back by 8:30pm so they could get ready for school. Weekends? they could spend the night, as long as she made sure they got to their scheduled events (baseball practices, swim practices, etc).

Gramn, I set all of this up without ever having a piece of paper or seeing a judge. How? Because I took the initiative, filed for custody (but never pushed it forward)...and then denied her any of the household finances or taking the kids. If she wanted to leave the family, she would have to leave the family. The family, and the family possessions, stayed for those that wanted to remain in the family.

I never denied her one time to see or talk to the kids. I set up a separate line with a distinctive ring during Plan B, so that if she wanted to call the kids, I didnt have to answer. The kids knew when they heard that sound, that it was Mom calling them.

I also made it very clear that if the OM came near our kids ONE time, that I would file immediately for supervised visitation for her!!

Now she wasnt happy with any of this, but she really had no ability to argue. She was sleeping around. She had left us. She was living an immoral life. And in the great Commonwealth of Virginia, there are laws against adultery, abandonment and the like!!

All the while I was drawing these boundaries, except when I went to Plan B...I was Plan Aing her. How? Well, several times she got really sick and had called from ehr apartment to talk to the kids. I heard she was sick, got a babysitter for my kids...and I showed up at her door (I called ahead oftime to make sure the OM wouldnt be there...that would have been a bad seen if he had of!). And I brought food, medicine, videos, etc and took care of her.

Do you see? Protecting your family and your child doesnt mean that your marriage is over or you cant Plan A your wife. Boundaries are NOT love busters!

So, do NOT let that child leave with your wife. Do not agree to any splitting of assets, dont even discuss divorce. Make it clear to her and everyone that you want to save this marriage. But make it also very clear that as long as she continues in this immoral behavior, that you will fight to save your family and protect your child.

Do not ever lose sight of this Gramn!!

In His arms.

Mortarman...

I think we've got the same idea here. It's just the exeution that has me confused. I'll talk to this lawyer today and see what he can say.
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Here is part of my Dilemma: This job I'm interviewing for is in CHICAGO, about 6 hrs from here. I don't know whether I'll get it or not, and if I do, what will that do to this marriage/custody stuff? We have no attachments to the town we're in now, but OBVIOUSLY, wife does not currently want to leave here. (because of her "support network")
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Oh, and I'll be back on Monday, which might be when I launch my "Omaha Beach Invasion"

My guess is that if you get offered the job AND you've exposed the A, the OM will be happy as all get out 2 see you and your W move 6 hours away.

-ol' 2long

I agree with 2Long on this.

I'm dittoing the need to make it clear to the lawyer that you want reconcilation if possible.

I had a bad experience with a big-time local lawyer that was unwilling to hear this. I did better with a small-time lawyer who was willing to do whatever I asked for a lower fee.

Ok, Wife told me about her Lawyer appointment...

This guy is telling her that we should go for a dissolution. (sp?)

It'll save us money, blah blah blah

I told her that maybe that would be OK if we could see a list of terms that we'd need ot agree upon, and if we actually agreed upon them.


-----------------------
She called me from our town's small downtown and told me about this. I heard her talking to somone about putting coins in the meter. She said it was her friend Kathryn... Yeah right...
I scouted around downtown, but didn't see them in any of the usual restaurants.

Is dissolution/divorce what you want? Or do you want to reconcile your marriage? You should tell her what YOU want, and what YOU are willing to work towards. Don't just agree with her if that's not your plan.

I DID not agree!

I want to talk to my lawyer today, and of course my "big plan" is coming up...

According to what I read in your post, you told her "that would be ok". Sounded like agreemant to me, and will absolutely sound like agreemant to someone who wants to hear it.

I'm of the opinion that you be open and honest about that part of things at least....let her know that you're NOT willing to seek dissolution/divorce. That you'd RATHER work on fixing your marriage.

Sorry if I've misunderstood your post.

I was probably vague. She knows where I stand, as far as wanting to work things out.

What I mean is, I'll TALK to her about terms, but they'd better be very fair if she expects this dissolution to work.

I can't force her to stay married....

Well, we'll see what happens when I Out their relationship...

[b]Make it fast.

You already lost one Battle by NOT serving her first.

Stay 2-3 steps ahead of her.

Gramn:

You said:


No matter what she says or does stick with this.

You also said:


She is no different than any alien WS! Notice that many of our spouses wanted to end their marriage in order to be with the OP! Notice how many of us have RECOVERED our marriages.

My FWH told me the same stuff: "Face it, it's over"; "I never loved you". BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!!

STAND UP AND CONTINUE TO FIGHT! DO NOT LISTEN TO HER! STICK TO YOUR OWN PLAN!!

[b]Never listen to ONE word of what they say.

Good or Bad it is all Fogtalk.

I would convince myself when my wife said something good that we were making progress. In reality she was feeding me CAKE to keep me off her back.

You can start to Trust her about 2 years after you reconcile. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Did you check the hotels and motels?

What? Remember what we told you? If you want a divorce, then discuss divorce. If you dont, then dont discuss it, dont mention it, dont play along. You are about your marriage. Do you know what my standard line was for my wife when she wanted to bring this stuff up? "I do marriage, not divorce. If you want to discuss divorce, talk to my attorney. If you want to discuss our marriage, I am right here ready to listen."

Gramn, you need to stop this. No more discussing divorce, or agreeing on terms. She wants you to help her end the marriage, and keep it cheap for her. DO NOT MAKE IT EASY FOR HER!! If she wants to do it, she is going to have to do the hard work herself.

So, make the decision now! If you want your marriage, then divorce is not to be mentioned again.

Might be with OM for a little tryst. Who knows? Of course, you will be able to check later on to see what she sends him. Make sure you document this stuff. Your conversations, your observations. That way, when you see the email tonight saying "I loved the time we spent together this afternoon, blah, blah, blah..." then you can show the judge what she told you, and what she actually did.

Like I said, she is moving forward. She wants you to help out. Don't!

Oh, did she say anything more? Had she filed, or done any paperwork, or was she just there on a fact finding mission?

Personally, I say not to discuss it at all with her until after D-Day. If you come out of box tonight with I want to save the marriage, she may just push things forward while you are gone. And you come back to a RO and new locks on the house. I'd just say "We will discuss this when I get back on Monday." Which you will. But not i nthe way she thinks, huh?!?!

In His arms.

Some more stuff....

I used this book on this website as my guide. It was GREAT for getting me ready for the fight and understanding all of the nuiances.

click here: Fathers Winning Child Custody

------------------------------
Here is what this book will do for you (I know...because it did for me!!):
This will inform and help you learn How To :
· prepare well in advance for the evaluation & subsequent hearings.
· know what at ammunition to use and to look for that's effective, of which you may not have thought important.
· present your case & ammunition to the evaluator to advantage yourself with maximum impact.
· adequately defend against her accusations and to take the offensive.
· use tactics against her.
· win the psychological warfare.
· leverage things against her that you thought trivial or might not know are relative.
· know what mistakes not to make.
· know what things to do early on that greatly advantage your position.
· gain the upper hand.
· turn defeats into wins.
· know what the deciding factors are & what matters more & how to use the to your advantage.
· become and appear to be the better parent & the better alternative.
· get out of spinning your wheels if you find yourself constantly defending yourself against accusations &attacks, and from losing or looking bad.
· turn the tide & put her constantly on the defensive.
· effectively crush her psychologically or make her screw up & give you even more ammunition.
· organize & promote your side in the best light.

--------------------------
Here is the Table of Contents. I used this source over and over again to make my case the best it could be:

TABLE OF CONTENTS

CHAPTER 1 INTRODUCTION

CHAPTER 2 CASE HISTORY

CHAPTER 3 FIRST THINGS TO DO

CHAPTER 4 STOP THE DEFAULT IF YOU ARE SERVED

CHAPTER 5 YOUR ATTORNEY

CHAPTER 6 DON’T TURN YOUR BACK

CHAPTER 7 DOCUMENT EVERYTHING

CHAPTER 8 CAN YOU - SHOULD YOU

CHAPTER 9 BE MOTIVATED & DEDICATED

CHAPTER 10 DEVELOP AN ASSESSMENT

CHAPTER 11 IN GENERAL

CHAPTER 12 KNOW YOUR CHILD INSIDE & OUT

CHAPTER 13 WHO’S ON WHO’S SIDE

CHAPTER 14 THE RULES

CHAPTER 15 WARFARE

CHAPTER 16 WHAT YOU SHOULD DO

CHAPTER 17 EVALUATION IS THE KEY

CHAPTER 18 WHAT TO EXPECT IN EVALUATION

CHAPTER 19 EVALUATE THE EVALUATOR

CHAPTER 20 IF YOU LOSE THE EVALUATION

CHAPTER 21 WHAT IS MEDIATION

CHAPTER 22 THE HEARING WHAT TO EXPECT

CHAPTER 23 CONCLUSION

You've got some good points...

Personally, I say not to discuss it at all with her until after D-Day. If you come out of box tonight with I want to save the marriage, she may just push things forward while you are gone. And you come back to a RO and new locks on the house. I'd just say "We will discuss this when I get back on Monday." Which you will. But not i nthe way she thinks, huh?!?!

This is what I was thinking of. you said it better. I'll see if she still wants a peaceful dissolution once I drop the bomb. And even if she does, I'm not interested. I want to fix us.

These Lawyers all demand cash or check. (Her lawyer wants $2000 for a retainer!) Moving our accounts might be a good way to screw up her efforts.

This is all so crazy to me....
P.S. I'll find a copy of that book. Whether I need it or not, I'm sure it's got many good things that I should know to protect myself.

You said:

"I WANT TO FIX US!"

Make this your mantra. Keep repeating this to her.

No you wont!! You dont want a peaceful dissolution. You dont care if she wants one. You dont want a war either. And you dont care if she wants one. NEVER ever, unless you really do want a divorce, discuss the divorce with her. My wife wanted to many times to sit down and come up with a plan. I wouldnt do it. She was moving into her apartment, so she wanted a separation agreement. I gave her one, but instead of it saying that we had irreconscilible differences and the marriage could not be saved (like most do), I had put in there that we were separating in order to work on the marriage. I also put in there she wasnt allowed to date or do anything else like that since she was married. Of course, that agreement didnt fly with her.

See what I mean? Only talk about working on marriage, defending the family. Do not entertain her thoughts on dissolution. She tells you what she wants...you say nothign but "Sorry, I dont do divorce. I do marriage."

Kind of hard for her to fight without money. It will slow things waaayyy down. Did for me. That is why filing first and controlling the tempo is important. So you can bog the whole thing down, but still maintain your rights. So, when she wants to go and have the child with her, you have filed, you have dropped your retainer...and you refuse to do any divorce or splitting of things. Then let her try to pay attorney, try to push things forward...and try to provide a home acceptable to the court for her and child. Meantime, you push thru temporary custody and the judge sees that you and child are still maintaining the family home...and your wife is still welcome back there. Unless the judge is a big man-hater, this is an open and shut case.

Download the book fro mthat website. Read it on your trip!! Great book!

Mortar - for whatever reason you lurk around here and help us poor souls out - thank you!

FAR

Mortar - for whatever reason you lurk around here and help us poor souls out - thank you!

Amen to that.

I cannot tell you how many times your advice to others has been spot on for me.

You're a real gem, MM.


slh