It was really mentally hard to get to this point, but I suggest you get your plan together and do the same as soon as possible. It is a MASSIVE load off of my mind... Go for it!
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Today, I would like to send a little note to OM.
Any specific advice on what it should say?

I'm thinking of something like this:

Dear Y Guy,
Obviously, I know about your Affair with my wife. My family may have problems, but I will fight for them. Please break off ALL CONTACT with her and any my family.

-Gramn

W a recent pic of my family attached at my Daughter's birthday party.
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That is a first draft. How can I make it better?

Gramn,

Day two...

The note sounds fine. No threats. Just a simple message, as you stated it.

On the OMW, as we talked about right after you talked to her, I was pretty sure she was going to call OM. They all do. A hit that hard just cant wait for some people.

That being said, I think she may come around in a day or so and you will then know which direction she is initially going to head. I would call her today and ask her how she is, point her to this web site, as well as Dr. Harley's book Surviving an Affair. Tell her what you are about, namely having the affair end and recovering your marriage. Remind her that the two of you will be able to work well together in order to make sure they do separate.

Now, has there been any other interaction with your wife? Did you sleep in your bed last night? What is she saying to you??

Hi Gramn:

I think I can speak from being in the same position as the OMW. I relied on my H for financial support at the time of his A. In disagreement with Mel on this one, I think agreeing not to go to the Y is a good bargaining point with her. She can rely on him for spousal support, divorce or not. In my separation agreement, my FWH was legally bound to pay me spousal support for the rest of my life because I had relied on him monetarily for so long... Also, their children depend on him for the salary he receives from the Y since she makes no money.. He will be desperate to keep that job... She will be desperate for him to keep it.

I agree that she may come around. She is likely in shock since this is such a major trauma for her. She can hardly believe that her H has done this to her. Wanting to abandon her and her children? Try to talk to her about MB as the others have said.

Mimi, I was not aware that a spouse could obtain spousal support for life, that is a new one on me. My issue is that he is not in a position to have to bargain at all on this point and I am concerned that it impairs his position.

Exposing him at the Y closes one more avenue from which they can carry on the affair. It would put great pressure on the affair to end by removing the Y as a refuge for the infidels. They couldn't very well continue to meet at the Y if everyone knew about it. Exposure would close that loop effectively.

You guys:

This is where I am going with this.

From a strategic point of view, the FINANCIAL REALITY of this MAY do more to breakup the A at this point than FURTHER EXPOSURE.

The key is for Gramn to make it clear that he will not provide spousal support to his WW since she has been involved in an A. I'm not sure if he can really pull this off legally in his state though. At least, he can make it clear that he will seek custody of his child. Therefore, she will not receive child support. Y Guy will have to support his wife and children on his salary. So what will they live on? LOVE???? That's what they may be thinking.

REALITY HAS TO HIT FOR THEM TODAY! THE FINANCIAL REALITY OF THIS IS A BIGGY!!!!

OK, I have no problem exposing him to the Y, but I'll see what happens with his wife first. We'll meet again soon (we plan on meeting tonight) I'll tell her about this site and stuff, and stress that getting them broken up is the most important thing. I will gladly tell the Y, but I'll save that "card" for now.

If we divorce, here is what will happen:
- This is a "no fault" state so we split our assets down the middle
- Evidence of things like Affairs can effect spousal support. So hypothetically, they might have ordered me to pay $500 per month to her. After I show them my evidence, they might order me to pay her $100 per month.
- We both say that we'd want a fair custody arrangement, but I don't trust her. If I ever piss her off, like when I told her that I wanted the bed last night, she is quick to flip out and say "I am going to get FULL CUSTODY!" I think it will be hard to convince the court to give me full custody, as they usually give it to the Mom...

It will be hard for an adulterous wife to get full custody. Did you read the e-book for divorcing fathers that Mortarman told you about?

What was the OM's reaction when the OMW confronted him? Did he vow to end the affair? Or he is acting like your wife and vowing to continue the affair?

I don't know. I think that maybe OMW did not ask him that question. All I know is that he lied at first then admitted that this affair was true.

WOW, GRAMN:

You sound great! You are in WARRIOR mode.

About the bed, JUST DO IT! Get in your bed. Let her deal with it. She can sleep there with you or not. You and WW are still married. That's the point here....

I agree with MEL about the child custody. Don't assume that it will be awarded to her given her adultery. In my state, adultery is legally considered to be a crime, BTW.

I don't think she would get full custody, even if she wanted it. I just don't want to get to that point...

Gramm, she is blowing smoke about the "full custody" thing. She is talking smack to manipulate you. She is not in a position to negotiate anything, so don't fall for it!

Mimi is right, go get in your bed and let her deal with it! You should not be ejected from your own damn bed so WW can carry out the pretense with her boyfriend that she is "seperated." Don't indulge her affair schemes anymore.

Also........does she have access to any savings or stock accounts? You might want to consider moving some money around so she doesn't plunder your accounts, Gramm. That is pretty common.

Well, I posted a long post here and it disappeared. So I guess I will summarize instead.

I think that Gramn should hold for 24-48 hours before making the next launch at the OM's work. I would continue notifying family and friends though.

Because money was the first thing that the OMW brought up and the WW brought up after exposure, I think that is a powerful weapon to be held back. One that all three of them (OM, WW and OMW) know that Gramn still has!

I am very interested in what was said between his wife and him this morning, as well as what the OMW tells him when he talks to her next.

In His arms.

We didn't say much this morning. She asked me if she should go forward trying to get a dissolution. I said, "you can try".

She might try and meet with her Lawyer again, but without an appointment, i doubt that she will.

She asked if she should put our house on the market. I said, "No, just wait and see what happens."

---------------------------------
I sent this message to OM:

Y Guy,
As you are aware, I uncovered your affair with WW.
My family may have problems, but I will fight for them.
NOW is your chance to do the right thing.
Break off ALL CONTACT with my wife.
-Gramn


I'll let you all know if I get a response...

Well, most post finally went thru and I see that I missed a couple...

One note here...stop talking about divorce. Stop talking about dividing things up. You protect your family. If she doesnt want to be a part of it, then she walks with nothing and has to fight to try to get some of it. Nothing leaves that house except her clothing without a court order, okay?? Especially your daughter.

But please stop dealing with her on divorce issues. As I told my wife everytime she wanted to talk about it..."I do marriage, I dont do divorce. Thus, we are not going to talk about that." And then I shut up!!

Before we went to the custody hearing, my wife said to me "I am under no illusion that you are going to get custody." Ten days later, I was ordered primary physical custody of our children.

Sure, you live in a state that does not have the AWESOME laws that we have in Virginia (such as if there is adultery, then NO spousal support can be asked for by the infidel. None. They get nothing in spousal support!!). But that e-book I sent you the link for isnt just for great states like Virginia. It can be used in varying degrees throughout the U.S. (and even other countries with similar laws).

While you do not talk to WW about divorce, custody and the like...you can come here in order to prepare yourself. Because knowing everything about this and manipulating the process to serve YOUR interests is what you should be all about.

You CAN get custody. You can do it. A lot of attorney's tell their clients that they cant because it is hard to do. It takes a lot of work. Work the attorney doesnt want to do for that $5000 retainer. What that e-book shows is what YOU can do in order to hand and open-and-shut case to your attorney.

Everytime I went to see my attorney, I asked him how we were doing and where we might be hurting. And then everything he told me that was a weakness, I went out and did or got the info for him to close that loophole. That book will show you how to do so.

The ladies dont need to go thru this process (unless you are married to a guy like me!!). But, if you silently build your case, all the while working on your marriage, then if she presses it forward toward divorce, she will be surprised and overwhelmed by the case against her. So will her attorney.

My wife's attorney, at one point, had to take a 5 minute break to collect her thoughts because we just kept hammering her with information. Her case kept getting blown apart, and she had so much coming at her, she couldnt rescue it. My attorney laughed afterwards that he had never seen that attorney so confused, so lost (I attribute that to the Lord because I had people praying that her attorney would have a fog come down over her so she would not be able to adequately defend my wife...I do love Jesus!).

But, with the help of the Lord, and a lot of hard work on my part...my attorney skated thru that hearing...and I walked out with my kids. And, because of her losign the kids...I ended up walking out with my wife also.

So, get intel on what is going on now. Does your wife know about the emails and you monitoring? Is that source gone? Get info from OMW on what is going on there and plan for regular phonecalls/meetings to compare notes. What is your wife saying today?

Let's see how they all react. Then, you can launch the next round. And when you do, they will be further upset. They will begin to believe that every move they make, you answer with overwhelming force. It will be frustrating. But eventually, they should see that the only intelligent answer is surrender.

In His arms.

No. No. No. Never say this. If you want your marriage. Instead, when she asks like that, you say "I want our marriage, I want our family together." And then say nothing more. Do not say ANYTHING about divorce, or anything like that unless that is what you want. By saying what you said, then you are (in her world) saying that you agree with her to end the marriage. Stop this!

Better. But again, a better answer would be "No. The house isnt going on the market. This is our family home."

Very good! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I wanted to add one more thing. Why do you not say anything about divorce? Why should you keep repeating your script of "I want the marriage...I want you?"

You see, she is in the fog. One of the ways thru the fog is to stay on message. Over and over again I repeated the same mantra. It frustrated my wife for me to do that. It was as if I was ignoring her wants and needs. And in a way I was. But I was ignoring those wants and needs because they were immoral and destructive. Instead, I stayed on healthy and moral answers to her wants and needs. She used to say (Why cant you get it? You are so delusional. You are such an idiot...you cant even get the concept that most people understand, that this is over."

But guess what? I didnt defend myself. I didnt rationalize with her. I just said the script over and over.

There is no chance of having those converssations until the affair is over and so is withdrawal. So until then, it would be like talking sense to a drunk. So dont.

Stay on message. It is that continued beacon that will flash thru the fog and will help lead your wife out.

In His arms.

OK, so now she calls me back saying that she wants to file either for divorce or dissolution as soon as possible. I say to wait and we'll figure out things. The only things that she'd want to figure out are how to divide up the stuff.

She was also accusing me of being "sneaky" and saying that she thought I was planning something else...

I don't know about all of this... I know when I tell more people that it will get back to her. That is fine to a degree, but it also will put her even more against me...

Gramm
her questions are a relatively good sign ...if anything in this crap is good ... firstly her questioning her decision to separate then her want to divide assets - DOUBT, small but a start - ....... but your responses were not great!
Dont want dv dont say anything in ref to it.... say no I dont that...firmly steady voice..etc

Of course the OM fix is not around all the time so expect big swings in attitude. And sadly DO NOT TRUST her in anything!
Just remember she is not your wife right now but another person who has spent a lot of time & energy to decieve you and take what she could from you..... including your child.

Do resist the urge to bite back, it may be hard but give the reverse babble kind of answer if you feel you have to say anything. Confuses the H*ll out of them.

You are doing ok BUT listen to the experts here they are giving you wonderful advice.

I do think that if the OM goes away - NC or leaves etc - then you will find one very sorry wife. I feel theres a lot of hope here.

All the best mate

Good. But better would be "I dont do divorce. I will nto even discuss it. I want to save our marriage and family."

Of course. Count on being accused of a lot of other things, true or imagined. Come to think of it, werent you in Dallas in November 1963?

For now. For now. But she wasnt going to run straight back to you after yesterday anyway. What has she done. She is pushing harder for YOU to enable her to leave. She wants this done quickly before reality sets in. And she wants you to do it, or help her do it. That way, when it blows up later on, she can blame you. Dont you do it. You stay on message.