Gramn -

Have you looked at all on the internet for the laws about divorce in your state? I looked and found ALL kinds of information.

Of course, this is no substitute for legal advice, but it looks to me that you DO live in a fault state, and adultery is one of the things listed.

Also it looks more like your state requires you to agree on things before the dissolution. Counseling and a parenting plan are required.

I think you are in pretty good shape. Stay calm.

Interesting...

I have looked online some, but I should do more.

Here is a question... Whenever I tell someone about the affair, should I tell Wife that I told them? She has been shocked a few times now that I talked to certain people. Would it be better if she knew that they knew?

Great Gramm. It seems that you are on the ball. I would suggest that you not tell her about everyone that you've told. It is a good idea to keep her guessing as to what you are up to. The less she knows about your actions and plans, the better. It is important to keep her off balance, if you can.

I am pulling and praying for you!

Gramn - Please spend some time reading on line about the divorce laws. I was surprised, as California is a no fault state.

There is even a child support calculator. Hmmmmmm. I wonder what a guy working at the Y would have to pay for 3 teens?

And who knows if your wife is being honest with her attorney? The attorney may have told her that adultery doesn't look good in a dissolution.

There is too much up in the air now. I agree with MM - don't let her know anything about the other job.

I think, the less you tell your wife, the better. You don't have to be open with her right now. After all, she is a threat to you and the marriage.

Good point. I should just shut up...

I was told Ohio is a no fault state by that last lawyer... I'll have to check.

I think the Dissolution idea is off the table. We would have had to agree to this divorce and to all of the terms...

Gramn -

Here is one I read, plus 7 others that said the same, unless the law has changed:

How may a marriage be terminated or ended in Ohio?
In Ohio, the only way a marriage can be terminated is through court actions of divorce, dissolution, annulment, the death of one of the parties or a presumption of death (a common law presumption of death requires an unexplained continuous absence from the home for a full seven years).
What is the difference between "divorce," "dissolution," and "annulment"?
A "divorce" is the legal separation and termination of the marital relationship by the judgment of a court which may be granted only upon a finding by the court that certain "grounds" for divorce exist. A divorce puts an end to the marital relationship.
A "dissolution" of marriage is a form of no fault termination of the marriage relationship where both parties have agreed upon all of the terms of the termination (such as division of marital property, spousal support, parental rights and responsibilities, child support, etc.) and are requesting that the court terminate the marriage and approve the agreement between the parties. The basic advantages of a dissolution are that it is not adversarial in nature (i.e. the parties have already agreed upon every aspect of the termination); there is no plaintiff or defendant; it is not a "divorce"; and the court does not have to make any of the decisions it would have to make in a contested divorce. Additionally, it is usually concluded faster than a divorce action.
An "annulment" is a decree from a court determining that the marriage is legally invalid because of some defect that existed at the time the marriage was entered into. An annulment decree declares that a marital status never existed, unlike a divorce decree that terminates a marriage. The grounds for an annulment include: an underage marriage; bigamy (i.e. one of the parties has another living spouse); mental incompetence of one of the parties; fraud; duress and nonconsummation of the marriage (which may include impotency).
What is necessary in order to obtain a divorce in Ohio?
In Ohio, in order to grant a divorce, the trial court must find:

that the plaintiff (the person filing the divorce complaint) has been a resident of the State of Ohio for at least 6 months immediately prior to the filing of the complaint and a resident of the county in which the divorce has been filed for at least 90 days or that the plaintiff for at least 6 months immediately prior to the filing of the complaint and that the defendant spouse has been a resident of the county in which the divorce has been filed for at least 90 days; and
that "grounds" (legal reasons) for divorce exist for the granting of the divorce.
What are "grounds" or legal reasons for divorce in Ohio?
Ohio law permits the granting of a divorce only upon a finding by the court that there are statutory grounds to terminate the marriage. There must be testimony by the plaintiff and a corroborating witness (or an admission by the other spouse) as to these specific grounds.
Ohio has both "no-fault" and "fault" grounds for divorce. The "no-fault" grounds include "incompatibility" and "living separate and apart without cohabitation for one year." There are nine "fault " grounds in Ohio. These "fault" grounds include:

another spouse living at the time of marriage (bigamy);
willful absence of a party from the marital home for one year;
adultery;
extreme cruelty (defined as "acts conduct calculated to destroy the peace of mind and happiness of one of the parties to the marriage");
fraudulent contract (i.e. a party was induced to enter the marriage as a result of a fraudulent representation that materially affects the essential elements of the marriage;
gross neglect of duty (i.e. acts that constitute an omission to perform a legal duty, such as a failure to support the family);
habitual drunkenness;
imprisonment of the adverse party in a state or federal institution at the time of the filing of the complaint; and
an out-of-state divorce.
How is a divorce case started in Ohio?
A divorce case is commenced by the filing of a "complaint." The spouse who files the complaint is called the "plaintiff." The other spouse is called the "defendant." The complaint must allege that the plaintiff has resided in the State of Ohio for the statutorily required period of time (6 months) immediately prior to the filing of the complaint; must indicate the date and place of marriage along with the name and birth dates of any minor children; there must be an allegation of at least one of the statutory grounds for divorce, and; it must contain a demand for the relief being requested from the court.
"Service" of the complaint must be made on the defendant in order to bring him or her within the jurisdiction of the court. There are several methods of service available, even if the defendant spouse lives in a state other than Ohio.
The defendant spouse should then file an "answer" to the complaint, admitting or denying the allegations in the complaint. If the defendant denies the allegations he/she may also raise any defenses he/she has. Additionally, the defendant spouse may also file a "counterclaim" asserting any claim he/she has against the plaintiff spouse for divorce or for a "legal separation."
If the defendant spouse files a counterclaim, the plaintiff must file a "reply," either admitting or denying the allegations contained in the counterclaim and raising any defenses that the plaintiff may have.
What if the defendant spouse cannot be located or evades service of the complaint?
Where the current residence of the defendant is unknown, "constructive" service may be had on him/her by publication. Service by publication permits the court to commence the case and rule on the status of the marriage and the marital property located within the state. Unless the defendant has been personally served or has voluntarily entered an appearance in the case, however, the court cannot rule on property outside the state and cannot make a ruling on spousal support.
What is the defendant is served with the complaint but does not file an answer or otherwise make an appearance in the case?
The court rules in Ohio preclude the granting of a default judgment in a divorce case. Instead, where the defendant has been personally served but has failed to file an answer or otherwise appear, the plaintiff must merely present sufficient evidence to establish a prima facie case to allow the court to grant the divorce and rule on the division of property, parental rights and responsibilities regarding the children and any support orders.
What happens after the filing of the complaint and answer/counterclaim?
During the pendency of the divorce case, either party can request temporary orders for child support, spousal support (alimony), parental rights and responsibilities (commonly referred to as temporary custody or visitation rights), and any other temporary order that may be called for in a particular case such as a temporary restraining order restraining one or both spouses from removing the children from the jurisdiction of the court or restraining one or both spouses from harassing, threatening or physically abusing the other.
Additionally, during this time the parties can request that the court order psychological or psychiatric evaluations of the parties and/or the children to aid the court in making determinations with regard to the parental rights and responsibilities concerning the children. Home studies can be requested to help the court in determining the living conditions of the parties and how those conditions may affect the children. Discovery procedures, such as interrogatories and depositions, can be engaged in that would aid the parties in determining what assets are involved in the case, what plans the parties have for the children and any other matters that are relevant to the divorce action. Experts may be retained to appraise property and businesses.
The court will probably hold one or more pretrials during this time in an attempt to determine whether a mutually agreeable resolution of the case can be had and, if not, what the issues are that will have to be determined at trial. If the case cannot be resolved, the court will set dates for the conclusion of the discovery procedures, for the production of expert reports and evaluations and for the date of the final hearing (trial).
Can the children's interests be protected?
A "guardian ad litem" (GAL) can be appointed by the court at the request of either party or upon the court's own motion to represent the interests of the minor children of the parties. The GAL is usually an attorney familiar with domestic relations law and his/her job is to act in the best interests of the children. The parties will generally be required to pay the fees of the GAL based upon their ability to pay. The GAL will be asked to make recommendations to the court and will have considerable influence when it comes time for the court to make determinations relating to the children.
Is there a right to a jury trial in a divorce case?
No. Ohio does not permit jury trials in divorce cases. If the case goes to trial, the judge will make the final determinations.
What are the major legal issues in a divorce case?
Generally, the major issues in divorce cases are, the issue of the grounds for the divorce itself, parental rights and responsibilities (commonly known as custody, child support, visitation), spousal support (commonly called alimony), and the division of the marital property and debts of the parties.
How does the judge make a final decision?
Both parties will provide the judge with information and documentation regarding all of the issues relevant to the case. The court will have any of the various expert reports that may have been ordered during the time that the case has been pending. The court will hold hearings and a trial where the parties present witnesses, including expert witnesses, testimony and any other evidence that is properly admitted at the time of trial. The judge will consider the recommendations of the guardian ad litem, if one has been appointed. The judge may interview the children if requested or if he/she feels it would be beneficial to do so. The judge is then required to make a decision based on the evidence presented and the law. While the judge has some discretion, he/she must comply with the law.
What if I'm not happy with the final decision of the judge?
A party who is not satisfied with the final decision of the trial judge has a right to appeal the decision to the Court of Appeals. Appeals are relatively expensive ($10,000.00 - $15,000.00 is not unusual) and there is no guaranty that an appeal will be successful. Generally, the only matters that can be appealed are that the judge has abused his/her discretion or that the judge has misapplied the law in making the final determination. An appeal is not a new trial. It is a wholly different type of procedure and is strictly a legal proceeding. No witnesses or evidence are presented. An appeal is based solely on the proceedings had in the trial court and whether or not substantial justice was done.
Last modified: January 17, 2005 - 09:54 AM

And it looks like there is a difference between a dissolution and divorce. In California, they are the same.

Crap, reading all that almost makes me want to try the dissolution!

Wife has been acting funny since seeing the lawyer. She knows that I told the people at the Y and several others, but instead of freaking out, she has ignored it. I think either the attorney told her not to freak out, (because it could hurt their case) OR she has some devious plan up her sleeve that she is waiting to launch.

I HATE THIS!

Gramn - If things were going her way, I think she would be freaking out. I think she is worried. Hang in there.

Well, I was listening in to her on the phone filling in a friend...

Apparently after I emailed Y-Guy's staff, he had to do "damage control" and gather the staff, telling them that this was a "messy divorce" and that they couldn't do anything about it.

But besides that, she kept going on about how he is the type of guy that she always wanted and never thought she could have and crap like that. Saying that my telling people what is going on showed my "true character"... What crap...

Gramn - Why would he have to do damage control? Didn't your wife say that they had told people at the Y that they were together?

Obviously that was a lie, or else these were other people. Not sure... She implied on the phone that these other employees were supportive. I don't know how much of that to believe. I made my note very respectful, but just becaues I sent it they probably think I'm crazy...

Nope Gramn I don't think they think you are crazy. I think she was lying. I don't think the people at the Y knew anything.

Don't make me give you a cyber-slap - the comment about you telling people about her affair showing your true character is just more WS B#llSh#t. And her saying he is the type of guy she has always wanted, but could never have is more of the same.

Please, please hang in there. You may not see it now, but they are running scared.

Well, you're right Believer. I don't see this at all. This all looks bad to me. I have trouble sleeping eating and concentrating. (Have not gotten much work done either) I know that she's miserable, but it seems that it's ME making her that way.

This morning she repeatedly asked me to move out. She said that her lawyer assured her that moving out would not hurt my chances at 50/50 custody. I don't believe her...

--------------------------------

On another topic, should I share my evidence with OMW? She wants copies, and I don't have a problem with that...

Why in the world should you even consider leaving your own home? Tell her you have no reason to go. If she wants to seperate, she knows where the door is. And she can't take the baby. She wants you to leave so she can carry on her affair without interference, while you pay the mortgage!


Sure, the affair is out in the open anyway, I can't think of any reason why not.

Next time she begs you to leave, tell her:

"Dear, I am commited to working on our marriage and have no intention of moving. If you want to seperate, I would be disappointed, but I can't stop you from leaving." BIG SMILE

Well, good. Do not believe her. She is lying to everyone. So is OM. My take on this...she is in a holding pattern waiting on your job sitch. If they were in a position to file, she wouldnt be asking you to move out, she wouldnt be waiting to file. Above, you were given the reasons to divorce. Are there any reasons in there that she can file on you? No there are not. That is why she is asking you to move out...so she has cause (abandonment). As long as you keep doing what you are doing, she has no right to file (or counterfile if you file). The only other way she could do it is she moves out and files for incompatibility (no fault) which usually means you have to be separated for 6 months. So, she could move out and then wait the 6 months. And? Well, that means she is guilty of adultery and abandonment. At the same time, Gramn will refuse for her to take their daughter or marital assets. And hopefully, Gramn has filed his own complaint on the grounds of adultery and asking for temporary custody of your daughter.

Steve Harley told me in my first session with him that for our marriage getting back together, my kids were my single greatest asset. That they were living with me meant that if she continued on with the OM, she would have to continue on in life without her kids.

This is HUGE for a woman, Gramn. In the fog, they will become VERY uncomfortable!! Missing her daughter. As the hearing comes up, the fog will feel very restrictive. In the case of my wife, it was the judge ordering me custody that blew the fog away. Nothing more real to a woman then having her children taken away from her. Especially a SAHM like my wife and your wife, Gramn.

So, it is now Friday. Have you contacted your attorney? Have you begun the process of protecting your daughter and your family assets? Have you finished exposure?

Exposure needs to be finished ASAP? Why? Because you have some Plan Aing to do. Meeting needs. Showing her who you are and what she will be missing. Plan B will come up very quickly and you will need to have a good Plan A in place for her to remember.

Nope. Looks like OMW is not playing the game as you asked. Unless she is going to help or provide more info, then just leave it as it is right now.

I believe they are squirming. Anytime you are doing damage control means you are on the defensive, not the offensive. The Om doing damage control just means he is concentrating on battles that you started, you defined. The more you do this, the less likely they are able to make things happen on their own.

You have to press forward now Gramn. All the feelings you have are normal. Take care of yourself and your daughter. It may help you to go back and read success stories on here. Read all my threads since June 2002. You will see me posting the exact same things as you. And guess what? My wife was lying next to me last night, holding each other as we went to sleep.

The odds are in yoru favor. Researchers have proven this. You must remember that she is under the influence of an addiction. If she was an alcoholic, would you put much stake in the things she sais when she is wasted? Of course not. So dont expect much in the way of intelligence right now from your wife.

So far, the WW and OM are textbook cases. So, run this by the book Gramn.

In His arms.

I sooo agree with MM!

She is following the standard script. Sounds exactly like my FWH!!

Remember, as I told you before, my FWH BEGGED me to let him go. He also LIED and LIED and LIED to me..... He was so devious in his aim to keep his FIX going with the OW. He now seems to HATE her. This is to let you know how this is SCRIPTED and TYPICAL- as painful as it is.

I think she is trying to get you to ABANDON her. My FWH wanted me to AGREE to his leaving so that I wouldn't sue for abandonment. I read the laws of your state. They are the same as the laws here.

It might be good to speak with your medical dr. about antidepressants. They certainly helped me during the phase that you are going through, GRAMN.

HANG TOUGH, GRAMN! You can do this...

Gramn,

Didnt you mention that OM lied to your wife about telling his wife he didnt know if he loved your wife. But then told your wife that was not true.

What is to say he isnt lying about what he told people at the Y. MM is right...he is doing damage control to protect himself. Your wife is not his #1 priority.

My WW found this out quickly since they worked together. One of them had to leave their job. He told her he wasnt going anywhere and if anyone had to go it was her. She witnessed a selfish act and saw a side she hadnt seen before.

The lies they are both telling will catch up with them.

Send the letter in the other post to the Y's corporate offices. Their mission is to "Build strong kids, STRONG FAMILIES, and Strong communities. I dont think this dude upheld that mission very well. Send the letter to all levels at the Y so they HAVE to deal with it. Co-workers will just gossip. Directors will protect the organization.

You owe no one nothing at this point (OMW). Hit them with everything you have now. Yes the guy may lose his job but that was a circumstance of the poor choices he made. Tough S&^T. It is not you job to protect OMW and grant her wishes. If you give her your evidence she will show him and he will tell your wife exactly how you got it.

Even if he is telling people at the Y that you had a miserable marriage does that make it right. Most people will not be sympathetic toward them. The majority of the people that work at a Y are deeply religious. Adultry is a big no no. Just because someone has a bad marriage does not mean anyone would condone an affair. There is not a lot of damage control you can do to change moral character or religious beliefs. Yes you may be viewed as crazy. So what. You are only after what is right.

You really have to stop focusing on her actions and take action to protect yourself and your daughter.

On a happier note I sent the voice recorder last night to the address you gave me. It went out Fed ex ground so you wont have it until Monday. I missed the Overnight drop. I could only find one of them but that should do. I also dont have the manual but it is not that difficult. You may want to go to Olympus.com to get directions if you have trouble. It is a model VN-480. I hope it helps.

I have contacted the attorney. I'll speak to him monday, an have an Appointment Tuesday. (At least it's better than waiting until the 27th)

Wife has opened a new bank account to save herself some money. I convinced her... if you want us to pay the mortgage this month, you had better transfer something! She did...

Of course, next time I have some money that does not directly go to bills, it is going in MY account... I'll have to be sure that she can't access my 401K. that is the only other money I have... She turned her 401k into an IRA to use for attorney costs.

I know that she wouldn't leave the baby with me. I'm surprised that she hasn't tried to move with the baby to a friends house or something. (I don't want her to try that, but I'm not sure that I can stop her)

At this point, I'm having a hard time even talking to her. I'm trying to concentrate on our daughter and let her do whatever she wants to...