Gramn:

What do you mean by this?



Try to "MAN UP"! We have confidence that you can fight and win this war against evil and destruction of two families. What they are doing is awful! Let HER leave if she wants to but not with your daughter!!

When she asks you to move out, simply tell her that you will not be moving out.

She is the one that is temporarily insane. You are not! You are the MAN WITH THE PLAN!!!

I really understand how you are feeling. I remember feeling crazy, too. However, you have got to fight those feelings that you are having.

Do you hear me, GRAMN???

Again, you've heard the exact phrase you should be using when she brings that up..."Look, I'm trying to save our marriage. I'm not going anywhere, and neither is my daughter. If you decide to leave, I can't stop you, but I won't condone your behavior either. I'm here, and I'm not going anywhere."

Just my thoughts. She wants you to move out so that she doesn't have to deal with the real world consequences of her affair. Don't let her convince you to leave. Make it clear to her that this is your HOME...it's where your marriage and your family is. If she leaves, she's abandoning all of that.

Mimi... I wasn't saying that I was thinking of moving out. I'm not. I'm just saying that I can not accept sitting at home while she is out with OM. That sort of thing is making me start to hate her, which is not a good place to be in.

GREAT... that you are not planning on moving out!

NOT GREAT... that you are starting to hate her!

Maybe time for PLAN B...

The problem is that I don't hear about you working on PLAN A.

What do you think are your WW's primary Emotional Needs?

What needs are the OM meeting for her?

Try to really THINK about this and get back to us on these questions so that we can work on your PLAN A for a few weeks.

Gramm, what do you say to her when she says she wants you to move out?

Maybe a little plan B would hurt. Tell her this calmly and matter of factly. No arguements no blaming but tell her.

"if you choose Y Guy over your family that is your CHOICE and I cannot stop you. But by doing so you are choosing to walk away from your family. I am not quiting on our family and have no intention on leaving. I will be here fighting to try to put this back together. Do what you must but you are doing it alone and by your own choice. If you stay you are staying to fight for your family. I cannot guarentee you that this would work out with us but we have not even tried to fix this. I cannot walk away knowing I at least did not try to keep our family together for the sake of Daughter. IF you can live with that I cannot stop you from making that decision, but it is yours to make."

She wants you to make it easy on her so she doesnt have to feel guilty for leaving/destroying your family. It was her choice to have the affair now it is on her to deal with the ugliness. It is ok to hate her a little. She hurt you. It is very normal. But dont act out on that anger. Go for a walk go do something where you can get that aggression out. As foolish and counterproductive as it sounds you have to be her support network now. As little as you may see it she is in conflict. I am sure a large part of her WANTS to stay but she just doesnt see how it can be different. You have to show her it can and start right now.
If she really wanted out that bad she would already be gone. You may have to actually push her out to realize it. Put the pressure on the relationship by sending the letter. You put the fantasy under the light of day and it does not shine so brightly. It becomes real world where people are hurt and jobs are lost.

Gee, TA, tell us how you really feel! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I have to take exception to your statements. First, after practicing law for almost 20 years now, I can guarantee you that I have dealt with a significant number of attorneys - right now, the corporation for which I work has over 150 attorneys worldwide and this is not the first major corporation for which I have worked. In my previous life, I was also a litigator which means that I dealt with at least one opposing counsel on every case and my average case load each year was 75 cases.

As with any other profession there are the good, the bad and the ugly. Some are really lousy and deserve the trash that you and others heap on the profession as a whole. Others are absolutely fantastic and are, unfortunately, castigated because of their not so stellar peers. I agree that many lawyers leave alot to be desired - but would like to think that I do not fall in that group.

Also, too, lawyers provide advice, they are do not make decisions. They are there to provide the information necessary for the client to make decisions based upon the level of risk the client is willing to take on. Lawyers are NOT there to make decisions for the client. If you were on trial for captial murder, knew you were guilty and the prosecutor offered you a plea of 8-10 years, would you want a lawyer to answer for you and say, "No"? I sure as heck wouldn't - I'd want to make that decision myself. (I am personally familiar with an instance where this happened and the case went to trial. Half way throught the trial, the prosecutor offered a plea of 25 to life. This time the client made the decision. Now he's spending 25 to life when he could been spending 8-10. BTW, he's only 19.

Only Gramn can make the decisions that are best for him and the level of risk he is willing to accept given his situation. While he may not have considerable wealth right now, a judgement could follow him for the rest of his life, prevent him from getting any type of credit, whatsoever, etc.

Regards,

Brit's Brat

Beg to differ - bankruptcy does not offer protection from civil judgments. Also, they recently amended the bankruptcy laws to make them more restrictive as to what debts will and will not be discharged.

Regards,

Brit's Brat

I say that this is my house too, and I am not leaving my daughter or my family.
---------------------------
On the EN, I've had a lot of problems figuring it out. She doesn't want to talk about that, and the EN that I am trying to fill seem to make no difference.
Some EN are very difficult to fill.

FINANCIAL SUPPORT:, then I should be getting a better job. There are not that many good jobs around here. (My current one isn't that bad!) Sure, I have applied for other openings, but that can take a long time.

PUNCTUALITY & MEMORY are very important to her. She gts very annoyed if she tells me to be somewhere at 4:15 and I get there at 4:17. I have been trying to be better at this one.

ANNOYING HABITS: I try to avoid these. She seems easilly annoyed sometimes.

DOMESTIC SUPPORT: She wants me to keep the place clean, even when she leaves her areas a mess. It's tiring, but I always try...

CONVERSATION: I'm always there to listen, but I get tired of being yelled at.

Now she is saying on the phone that because I won't move out, she is taking the baby to a neighbors place.

Don't back down! She is trying to get you to back down! The important thing is for YOU NOT TO LEAVE!

STAY IN THE FIGHT!

Sounds like she is becoming desperate. She has NO PLAN! Obviously the Y GUY can't help her..

What ENs is the OM meeting?

I wish I knew.

She's just all freaked out saying that unless I stay somewhere else for the rest of the week, that she'll find a place to stay with the baby. This is really freaking me out. What good does "Staying in the Fight" do if she doens't stick around??

Stand strong, Gramn.

I personally think you should send your letter to the leadership at the Y, maybe even hand deliver it today. The sooner you break down the affair, the sooner she might start seeing things from a different perspective. The leadership at the Y will create job strife for this man, and he will bail on your WW. Just my .02.

Good, luck, man. I will pray for you.

FAR

What does your atty say?

Gramn:

It's the standard WS script. My H left me for the OW. Same as MM's wife and many others. When he left, he knew that he did it at his own choosing and it was not alright with me. He left knowing that I WANTED THE MARRIAGE. He didn't. It is important that she knows that this is not OK with you and that SHE is destroying the family and that you do not ENABLE this DESTRUCTION of two families.

It will not help her in court, regarding the custody of your child, for the judge to hear that she abandoned you while you were fignting to maintain your family and your household. If she leaves on her own accord, to be with the OM, there's a good chance that she will not be awarded alimony or spousal support...

You understand, GRAMN?

How will going along with her help things?

If she leaves, it doesn't mean that your marriage is over.

My FWH ended almost begging me to reconcile with him.

Believe me, she does not want to leave, she is probably just bluffing. Stand your ground and calmly tell her you won't be leaving your home and neither will your daughter. You have done nothing wrong and have no desire to seperate. If she wants to leave, you will certainly be sad, but you can't stop her.

Don't let her take your daughter!

Gramn, Mimi is right, there is NO CAUSE for alarm in her leaving. It will just make things more difficult for her. It is part of the process don't sweat it. In fact, if she forfeits the comforts of her home, it will make it harder to carry on the fantasy.

Ditto, MEL.

Let her go- but not with the baby!

[b]Like Steve Harley told me "your wife NEEDS to SUFFER the consequences of HER actions."


I hope she HURTS like HELL.

Steve said NOT to suggest any AD or any drugs to make her feel LESS PAIN.

She NEEDS to HIT ROCK BOTTOM.

She's getting there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

That is the main thing here. I can respect the idea of giving my wife "space" or whatever, but I dont want her to take the baby, and she is adamant that if she is leaving, then the baby is coming with her.

For now, she has backed down. I said that I'd stay out of her way. We'll see how it goes. I don't think it's really anyting that I've done that is bothering her, it's just the general idea of having to face me that she can't stand.

I dont' think she and OM have discussed living together yet. My lawyer made it clear that if she and he DO live together, then I stop paying any spousal support.

She seems to think that when she files, she can set some custody and living arrangment conditions. For instance telling me where she'll live or what the baby will do. From what my lawyer said, it doesn't work like that.