hAHA, IT'S HARD not to react when she calls me at work all freaked out telling me that she wants me out of the house!

One of the reasons that she did not move out is that she said that her friends are not returning her calls! I feel bad for her... (sort of)

-----------------------------------------
Oh, another thing...
The Lawyer's opinion on the letters:
DON'T Send them! Why? Because once we divorce, it will cost me less if OM can support her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> That is lawyer logic I guess...

Is your mission to save money, or to save your marriage???

Send the letters to the Y.

JMHO
SD

I don't know your state laws but in mine, alimony/spousal support (if she were to qualify) is paid regardless if she is living with someone or not. Further more, it has absolutely no affect on child support. Basically, I don't see how this could have an impact on what you legally would be required to pay in a divorce situation, unless you not in a no-fault state..... Which then, if you were to file with her being at fault, the likelyhood of any type of shared parenting plan of an infant would be about zero.

You've received some great advice from many people who have been there and done that. My advice is to move quickly in taking that advice. Keep on the offensive rather than becoming defensive.

Did you ask your lawyer what your rights would be if she took the baby and ran?

I just put that in there as an anecdote. Of course I don't think of it like that at all.

I was really surprised about something. I went to the lawyer today ready to file. (Following MortarMan's advice and to see if I could get temp. custody.) Well, apparently it doesn't work like that in Ohio. Neither of us can claim custody until one files and the other responds. There is no way to get it quickly by filing first. Whoever files first does not really benefit anyone.

Gramn - Settle down, and when you talk to her again, give her the speech that groovy suggested. Don't argue or threaten - just calmly let her know that you are standing for your family.

To me it sounds like she is freaking out. Do't let her get you excited. Be a broken record.

Gramn - I'm standing for my family.

Mrs: Get out of here, or I'll take the baby.

Gramn: I want us to work on fixing this.

Mrs: I'll move in with OM.

Gramn: Nonetheless, I'm standing for my family.

Mrs: I hate you, I never loved you, I'm moving to a neighbor with the baby.

Gramn: I want us to work on fixing this.

Whatever phrase you choose that is pro-family, just keep repeating it, using nonetheless, furthermore, etc. It is a way of not heating up the conflict.

Gramn:

In terms of your thought process, why did you say this?



Are you saying that her friends need to support her in her destruction of two families?

Like I said to you before, "MAN UP"!

In the long run, your WW will respect and value you for this.....

Believer, that is basically the conversation that we just had. She was screaming and crying while I calmly defended our family.


No, I'm just sad to see her hurting. Sure she has done terrible things, but it is still hard to see her in pain. I'm not helping her call people to bunk with or anything...

I disagree with this. I live in a no-fault state, where it is similar to what you say. I was divorced about 5 years ago and advised by an atty similar to you. But the reality of the matter was that whoever filed first was on the offense and whoever answered was on the defense. So legally, on paper, it doesn't matter but in reality it matters more than you think.

For instance, many Judges will simply enter the 1st filing as a temporary order until the case can be heard. If she were to file 1st, that temporary order would be you paying some God aweful amount of money and hardly any custody, it happened to me. Then a month later, another hearing, get some things worked out and others continue until final resolution which can be months and months and in my case years.

First off, I've followed your thread Gramm, but haven't responded before. You are getting the best advice from some of the veterans here. Sounds like you're doing the right things. She will be all over the map, especially because she's not getting her way. Tantrum, anyone?

When she's feeling sorry for herself because her friends don't WANT her at their houses and whines to you, just say something like, "Well, I know it's hard to hear, but I want you home with your family."

Hang in there --
Shellybird
P.S. TA - CHILL OUT. You do not need to denigrate Gramm to make your points. You don't need to bludgeon someone to help them. Any worthwhile messages you have get lost in the vitrolic way you express them!

Send the letters and look at it this way. What if they help break up the affair and you wife comes to her senses and is back with you. Will OM really pursue this...No cause who would defend him especially if WW is back with you. She knows the facts.

That is pretty much the best case.

Now for the legal point of view. Take the RISK (key word) of doing nothing but sit around and watch her run around with Y Guy and drive you nuts so you save a few bucks on child support.

No offense to lawyers but they are like chicken little. You know the little guy in nursery rhymes that is insistant that the sky is falling. They will always give you the worst case. What are the odds of a guy who is divorcing with three kids about college age and a SAHW who may or may not have a job investing a lot of time and money to go after someone who doesnt really have a lot to begin with. Even when you just tell the truth.

Ask your lawyers these questions.

You are about to change your life and you control the direction. Life is about Risk so take it. I am not religious or any of that but here is a poem I found (again not like me) that I look at everyday. It is how I choose to live my life now.

To laugh is to risk appearing the fool.
To weep is to risk being called sentimental.
To reach out to another is to risk involvment.
to expose your feeling is to risk showing your true self.
to place your ideas and dream before the crowd is to risk being called naive.
To love is to risk not being loved in return.
To live is to risk dying.

To hope is to RISK despair,k and to try is to risk failure. But risks must be taken, because the greatest risk in life is to risk nothing. The person who risks nothing does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live. Chained by his certitudes, he is a slave. He's forfeited his freedom. Only the person who risks is truly free.

I think my biggest failure in my marriage was not taking any chances or risks. I was weak in my wifes eyes. I always played it safe. I didnt stand up and fight.

I still read this EVERY day at work it is right behind my monitor. I dont just read it I believe it.

You are at a crossroads in your life. You need to stand up and just do it. No one can tell you what it is you need to do exactly just trust yourself and take a chance that you are doing the right thing. If in the end you give it your all and it does work out I guarentee that you will be a better person for it. If you dont fight and worry about "what if" your life will become a "what if" full of regret.

I dont think TA is trying to be overly mean. It is too the point that a stand needs to be made. Some of the best advise I got from this board was people blasting me out of my own fog/coma and making me realize what needed to get done and what was important. At first I would be pissed but then you realize it may make sense.

In the end Gramn needs to figure out what he needs to do. Not what we say his lawyers etc. This board is full of opinions but you know what they say about opinions. They are like...

Listen to this Gramm...this is the truth!! And all the while, your WW and OM shack up, and your daughter establishes a new residence. Want to know the NUMBER ONE consideration a judge uses to decide where a child stays in a custody battle? Where do they live NOW? Who are the kids living with? If she gets out and spends 6-8 months or more with your daughter, you have a very long chance of getting her back, unless your wife does some things wrong.

By establishing the case on your grounds, while the child is still with you, then you can force the issue that the child needs to stay where she currently lives. You let her go...and you will have an uphill battle. You let your wife file first, and that judge will issue a temporary order after the two of you respond, and leave things as they are until the hearing...which could be months away.

I know!! I had custody of the kids. They were with me. Added to all the crazy stuff of the affair, the judge was not going to remove my kids from a home where they were functioning and being taken care of. Judges do not like risk (they are lawyers, after all). If the home they are in is a good one...they will stay there.

In His arms.

Well, this is the third person to tell me that the first filing doesn't matter (at least in this area). 2 very different lawyers and a Civil Judge. Even if she files first, it doesn't mean that whatever she asks for means anything unitl I file a response and all of this is reviewed.

That is correct, Gramn. It doesnt matter in that aspect.

What matters is where your daughter is when the judge makes his ruling. If you wait for her to move out and file, and she takes the baby...then you are fighting to get her back. And the judge will most likely issue a temporary order leaving her there until the full hearing. And by the time the full hearing comes around, as long as your wife doesnt do anything stupid, the judge will just leave your daughter where she is at.

So, the key to all of this isnt who files first and what position you are in...it is if you file first, before she has a chance to get her ducks in a row and get a place...then you can see the judge immediately and make the claim that your home is the family home and your daughter should remain there.

Most lawyers ASSUME that the woman will get custody, so they do not think outside of the box. So, a question for your attorney is "What if she tries to leave with the baby? Am I to get in a tug-o-war with my wife over the child? Do I grabe her and hold her and refuse that she leaves? If both of us are equal, then who says whether she stays or goes?" Have you read the e-book, Gramn?? Most of the laws in most states are the same on this stuff. You are going to have to do the work, and to make your attorney see that the standard answer is not acceptable to you...he must think outside of the box. I found an attorney who had great success in getting custody rights for the father. As a matter of fact, he was the guy on a switched baby battle here in Virginia a few years ago. The mother had her baby switched in the hospital. The couple that got her baby had died in a car accident right after finding out about the switch. The baby (both of them) were still alive. The mother wanted to keep the other couple's baby (the dead couple) and get her child back. In the middle of this battle...the bio dad of her child walked in wanting custody. My attorney represented him. And my attorney won full physical custody for him.

I had seen other attorneys. Most said what was possible, but tried to dissuade me from going those routes. But, those are my kids!!

Now, we have been talkign a lot about the divorce stuff. What about the exposure stuff? Are you done with that yet? It has gone on too long...you need that out now so you can move on with your Plan A.

In His arms.

Except for the board members thing, which I still dont' feel right about, I think everyone knows.

-Last night I was grocery shopping (which she had said she would do, but didnt') When I was about to check out, I got a call from her. She was furious that I'd told one of her friends. She wanted to rush to the friend's house right away to do "damage control"! My response... "Oh yeah, I told her a week ago. You didn't know? I told you that everyone would know. --You want me to rush home? I'll get there when I'm done at buying this food."

Gramm, if you listen to nothing else that anyone tells you, listen to Mortaman, myself, and others on this one. On paper it doesn't matter but in reality it matters alot. I've been on these boards since '01 when I went through my divorce (under a different name that I changed for privacy) and I was told the exact same thing you were. GUESS WHAT, IT MATTERED and I faught uphill for every hour with my children, for pretty much the exact reasons Mortaman expanded upon with you. Heck, I even counter-filed the next day and by the time we got to court weeks later it was already too late. I've also watched countless people get the exact same run around. It matters what you do and when you do it.

My X had verbally agreed to do shared 50/50 custody of our daughters, so when she filed what do you think she asked for? Well she asked for alimony, outragously high child support, and full custody. I counterfiled for what we had verbally agreed to. We had a "temporary order" hearing and to save time and money, the Judge basically gave her everything "temporarily" (except alimony) until we went through mediation and came back to court. Which by that time (6 months later) the pattern Mortaman eluded to had been established. In my case, we came to a 11th hour compromise. Had we not, I was prepared to fight but the likely hood of success was low. My X and I have been back to court MANY MANY times over the past 4 years and from personal experience let me tell you that the person on the OFFENSE has the cards highly stacked in their favor, especially on child issue's.

What part doesn't feel right? He works in a position of power at an organization who's mission is "To put Christian principles into practice through programs that build healthy spirit, mind, and body for all." As an organization they try to hire people who match their values. Does the "Y" guy match these values? Do they not have the right to know they have hired a man who prey's on innocent families and leaves destruction in his wake. If you don't stand up, who will? When he's tired of destroying your family, he'll move on to the next one under the pretenses of being a great leader. IMHO, lack of action here is condoning his behaviour plus I believe that the Board has the right to know what they hired.



Good for you........

Gramn,

As an attorney who went to law school (think of the large city north of you), is licensed to practice and has actually represented clients in the courts of the state in which you reside and in which you will be filing for D, I can tell you it does not matter who files first. My entire career (almost 20 years, now) I have represented Defendants. I never felt that put me or any of my clients at a disadvantage. In fact, I find it preferential to be in that role, because I find that most of the time, that Plaintiffs (the ones who file) don't tell their lawyers everything and, very often, come out with significant credibility issues.

Anectodally, yesterday, my neighbor had a hearing on Temporary Order Motions in her divorce case. She was the one who filed - her H has a raging porn addiction. Guess what? He got the house and their 2 teenage sons. She got support until September when the D, itself, will be heard. Yes, she filed first. He won.

Regards,

Brit's Brat