Thanks FG and SD. I'm trying to manage this EN stuff. I probably went too far going along with the Lingerie shopping, and now feel like a chump, but I can keep trying.
Maybe I'll make us dinner on the grill tonight.

You will feel like a chump a lot of the time. It is the part that sucks the most. You keep giving and giving and they keep taking. But what you dont give them is the EASY way out. That little excuse that justifies what they have done. IT is the torment she has to endure. She probably just expected you were as miserable as her and just wanted out. In her twisted mind she was doing you a favor and saving you the hurt (standard script). Her anger is just showing her frustration that you are not going along with her plan. You do care and she was not prepared for that.

In the end I just viewed Plan A as the unguarded self. Take the time to get to know yourself and show your best side. She did love you at one point and if you can be that guy again she probably will see it. She would never admit to that now but she would already be gone otherwise.

Yeah she may be an alien with really bad PMS but your wife is still in their somewhere. If you drop your walls and let yourself shine through I am pretty sure she will do the same....with time AND once the Y_guy is comepletely out of the picture. It will become a fade in fade out ritual or as the long timers refer to it as the Roller Coaster. I think most will tell you it is two years of that. The longer you are in to it the longer between downs but they still happen.

There probably are worse roads yet to come. She will have to completely break down and lose it. Like an addict hitting bottom. The bad part is you send her there and will be blamed for it. That anger is misdirected and will probably be pointed at herself eventually which is a whole nother phase to this. Read up on the grieving process. It will give you insight to your own and her feelings and how they come about.

Gee I'm looking forward to that roller coaster. As if my life doesn't suck enough now...

-I invited her to come to the playground with baby and I. She declined. BUt baby asked her to go too. She had to think something about that.

I got us a pizza for dinner. That was a good move.

-I decided to stay at my parents 1 night this weekend. (THe night she has plans with her girlfriends) The reason? Baby has NEVER slept without her mom in the house before. I think it might be beneficial with a judge at some point if she can't say "BUT SHE HAS NEVER slept without me". Wife also said that I messed up her weekend plans by coming back after 1 night. I said "what plans?" and she said "well, I wanted to make some and now I can't". So, maybe that will work out OK.

right now, She closed herself in her room to discuss things with OM on the phone.

cool, now the OM can visit!

Gramm, what in the world kind of plans does she have that would require you to leave your home? That makes no sense. And your D is going to have to learn to sleep without her M.

I would again implore you to insist that your W not carry on her sleazy affair frm your home. Go in the room and ask her to have a little bit of respect for you and your D and to not carry on her affair from your home. She can leave to go talk to the OM. You are making it way too easy for her to normalize this affair from the comforts of her home. You are accommodating her affair.

The fake kind?

I get what you're saying about condoning it. I can't allow that.

Gramn,

Melody is right. Do not accomodate her affair. Yes, having daughter with you will be helpful in court. But more helpful would be that your WW left to be with OM, and you and daughter stayed home. Your WW is frantic to have that alone time with OM. So, she will do a lot of things to make that happen, even running off for the weekend.

So, you stay there...set up your boundaries. "When" she leaves for the weekend, since you runied her plans, then it would be good if you can prove that she was with OM. That way, you will be able to in court say that your wife left for the weekend to be with OM...while you and baby were at home.

My wife did a similat thing. She was in nursing school...not much time off. She had moved out 4 months earlier and gotten an apartment in order to be with the OM. So, Christmas comes around and she has like a week off of work...and no school. She had spent very little time with the kids in the fall do to her "busy" schedule (hard to balance work, studying, school and an OM...kids kind of get i nthe way of all of that!!). So, what does she do with her first extensive time off? She goes to Florida for 4 days to meet OM and his family. Oh, man...the judge LOVED that one!

These are the kinds of things you need evidence of, and you need her to do. That is why you hold your ground. You are in no hurry...she is!! And so, everytime you "ruin" her plans, she will just be more frantic to get her fix. And she will begin to do stupid things...things that will hurt her in court. I nthe meantime, you come off as looking like daddy-of-the-year. Which you should be anyway.

Set boundaries. Enforce them. Meet needs. Take care of yoru daughter. Do what you can to get custody. And get intel on when she goes to see the OM. If you can do all of this, and document it...she will be digging herself a HUGE hole!!

In His arms.

In spite of the best evidence, I am worried because my daughter is 2. Even my lawyer said that dads are doing much better in custody cases these days, BUT very young children are almost always given to the mother. So I guess I have to document A LOT of stuff.

-Last night, daughter woke up crying around 3:30 am. Wife and I both come into the room to comfort her. Wife goes to bring her to bed with her when daughter yells "daddy" and points to my bed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> So, she slept a few hrs next to me. I'm sure Wife didn't like that...

-Discussing living arangments yesterday, we talked about the possibility of "joint custody" which is fine with me, as long as daughter spends 1/2 her nights with me. Well, to Wife that was crazy! A child needs to live with her mother... I'm being selfish and only thinking of me... BUT, if she wants to leave and take the girl, that is fine, apparently...

Also discussed this morning. (Well, I talked and she yelled):
-People she told are appauled that I make her sleep on the fold out bed! (She can sleep wherever she wants)

-I am a horrible person for keeping her in the house. (She can move out any time she wants, even taking the daughter if she agrees to 1/2 custody)

-She threatens to get FULL CUSTODY in court

-I am bad for not agreeing to sell our "poisoned" house and split the proceeds, or at least "Buy her out" so she can afford to move out.

-I am lying to people and saying that OM caused our break up. He didn't! Wife's wanting to leave has nothing to do with OM. She "left" me because she doesn't love me.

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I know that much of this is not really worth repeating, or believing, but I figured that I'd post it anyway.

Yes, a lot of guys are getting custody now. My wife and I were discussing that last night. And yes...you need to do a lot of work, especially since hse is so young!

Sorry to hear your daughter was upset. But the rest of the story was great. It shows that even she knows the truth and knows who is the stable one in her life. Keep going. Believe me, the evaluators will see this out of her!!

2x4 time....Why in the world are you still doing this?? You are helping her, you are enabling her, you are justifying her affair. And, you are also making her believe in her foggy mnd that whan you say you are for the family, that you dont really mean it. What happened to the script? You CANNOT talk about divorce, custody, or anything else liek that with her. She wants to talk about splitting up. You must only talk about staying together. Come on Gramn...this did not help you! Also, why would you want joint custody and 1/2 time. First, judges rarely allow this (one judge said that if the two parents could do this, then they would have the ability to save the marriage...1/2 time custody in 99% of the cases does not work!!). Second, why in the world would you allow your daughter to be subjected to that mess 1/2 the time. Of couse, you dont discuss divorce etc with your WW. But if you did, it would continue to be "our family stays together. If yo uchoose to leave the family, I cannot stop you. But the family stays together, in oru family home." Period!

Waaahhh. Who cares?

You have it exactly right. Which goes back to the "the family stays together...we cant stop you from leaving" script.

And? Isnt that what she said above...that your daughter needs to be with her mother? Sounds liek full custody to me? All fog talk, babble. Whatever. Ignore it.

Gramn, you have got to stop with the discussion of divorce. When she does start in, go to the script and dont come off of it. It will seem crazy to her, and will anger her! But, you must be 100% a rock for her and your daughter. No deviations. The family and the marriage stay together.

In His arms.

-I am bad for not agreeing to sell our "poisoned" house and split the proceeds, or at least "Buy her out" so she can afford to move out.

-I am lying to people and saying that OM caused our break up. He didn't! Wife's wanting to leave has nothing to do with OM. She "left" me because she doesn't love me.

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I know that much of this is not really worth repeating, or believing, but I figured that I'd post it anyway. [/quote]

Gramn:

An alien cannot engage in a logical discussion with you!

Repeat: SHE IS AN ALIEN! SHE IS AN ALIEN!

An important part of your PLAN A will be to "MAN UP". I think that gaining her respect will make you more attractive to her. Also, it seems like it will be an important life change for you. She somehow thinks that she can manipulate you. WHY, GRAMN? It is not necessary for you to be "nice" all the time especially when your WW is being deceitful and vicious.

All the divorce talk is hard to ignore. It's pracctically all she talks about. And of course even when she is not talking about it, it is still there, simmering. If I ignore it, she gives me the "You're living in a fantasy world" type speach.

I try to say a lot of things like "This house belongs to OUR FAMILY" or other pro family stuff. Not that it gets through.
It seems that even if she DOES break up with OM and give us a chance (which seems like a very remote possibility right now)
that we will be totally F'ed up with debt, multiple apartments and everything else.

The Judge in my case has NEVER ordered 50/50 custody. As MM said, typically if y'all can't agree on it then y'all won't be able to maintain the communication required to that level of interaction with each other. That being said, you're left with trying for custody if it comes down to it. And from what I read she is begging you to take custody through her actions. MM and others have great eyes and he's shared their vision with you, are you seeing what they see.

A plan has been laid out and you must follow it. No LB or DJ, but NO ENABLING......PERIOD...... No divorce talk or custody talks, that's what attorneys are for.

Gramn:

Read over my previous post to you....

Your WW is so standard by the WS Script. She sounds no different at all from my FWH. She sounds like many of the WSes here.

It's up to you, Gramn whether or not you want to MAN UP for the fight or do you want to hand her over to the Y-GUY or whomever on a silver platter. She probably won't end up with the Y-GUY....

Gramn, she is trying to manipulate you, to play you into going along with what she wants...

If it's hard to listen to her, leave the room, GRAMN. Put on your WALKMAN, start humming a song, go for a walk. Trying to convince her or reason with her about anything will be like beating your head up against the wall....

Her main goal is to get to her drug source at this point...

MAN UP, GRAMN!!! Evidencing your PERSONAL POWER is the LOVING thing for you to do at this point. In the long run, she will see this.. Not now, when she is ADDICTED...

OK, I am really tring to listen to all of this.
Of course, it's not always so clear cut on the "battle field".

How would you suggest handling this common situation:
She wants to go out to do something with her girlfriends (and get away from me and the house.) I don't know that she is seeing OM. I sometimes know that she is not, other times I suspect that she may be. What should I do about that? Even if she is lying to me, it's a DJ if I say "You can't go out with him" when she is claiming to be doing something else.
Even if she claimed that she IS going to do something with him, how can I stop her? I guess I just record that she is leaving her daughter at home another night? Do I tell her that it is inappropriate to be going out at night when her daughter needs her?

Anyway, it can be confusing.

If she is so upsset by sleeping on a couch tell her she is more than welcome to move back inthe bedroom with you. But you are not leaving.

Werent you on the couch before this. She left your bed for a new one. Now she should sleep on it. I guess it isnt that comfortable for her.

Listen to EVERYONE. Plain and simple dont be an [censored] and tell her what she is going to do but rather tell her you are choosing to stay with your family. End of discussion. You cant stop her from doing anything. Ultimately she will hit bottom and need someone. This is going to end badly for her. She doesnt see it and neither do you at this point but most of us can tell you from experience she is going to hit bottom.

Gramn - I have been told time and time again that time is on the BS's side. I KNOW THE PAIN YOU ARE IN. I FEEL THE HELPLESSNESS YOU HAVE. I am sitting on my knowledge, gathering data. I have done nothing but confront WW once - she denied, and now believes that she has smokescreened me. Meanwhile - I gather lots and lots of data. I am waiting on consultation from SH, but I can see that the time is not going to hurt my situation. I record, every night, how much she drinks. She is drowning feelings in the evening - and that will help my case if this goes to a custody battle. A won custody battle - according to MM and other seasoned vets - will possibly save my marriage.

I am not chastising. We - you and I - are right in the middle of this and unsure each moment as to what we are doing is the right choice. COUNTERINTUITIVE. That is a word I have seen here a lot. And we need to understand that we are so close to the fire that we can not see where we are in it. We have backup (the whole fire department, old seasoned vets) in the air and on the ground watching our every move, and calling in our moves to us on the radio. If they tell us to walk through this wall of flames - it may be our only way out. We feel like we are walking into our death - but they can see that the flames are only for ten feet - then there is a safe clearing beyond.

Okay - sometimes I feel like God takes over me and starts telling me and others things - and I am not a part of it. I do not know if I was writing for you or for me in the last paragraph - but it was on the screen before I knew what was coming out.

Stepping aside now.

Blessings to you, brother.

FAR

Yes it can and I can appreciate that as a member of the been there done that club but once you have a plan it doesn't have to be so hard. You know what to say, just say it.


You can't stop her nor do you necessarily wish to stop her. I would simply say what you've already been told to say:

""You are free to leave and do what you want. I dont want you to, but I cannot stop you. I am standing for our marriage and our family and I'll be here with our daughter when you return."""


Pretty much...... If you can get some other intel, that would be awesome too. Document...Document...Document...


NO..NOPE....NADA.... What would the point be? BY chastizing her, you would simply be making a withdrawal and we are only interested in deposits.

I do also hope that you've modified your plans to stay home for the weekend.......

FAR is on target. I remember not wanting to buy what the folks here were telling me. However, MY WAY sure wasn't working.

I know it is so hard to believe that your W is acting so deviously. However, I had to come to terms with the reality of it all. I guess, I am saying that it is important for you as the BS to stay out of HER FOG. That's what this forum does for you. She tries to convince you that it is really her and what she is saying is reasonable. (Sorry, BROKEN RECORD COMING..) However, SHE IS NO LONGER YOUR WIFE...SHE IS AN ALIEN...

I really can speak from experience because my FWH is finally himself again. It has taken a full two years for the FOG to be COMPLETELY gone. He can't remember the person he was during the A. It was like he was LOST IN SPACE and now he is back.

THE FOG IS REAL!!

It is important for you to find ways to maintain your own reality and sanity as hard as that can be....

Assume that she is in constant contact with the OM and, if not, she wants to be with him. This is your reality right now....

I'm so sorry that you have to go through this. I'm sorry for all of us. I HATE THIS. That's what keeps me here on the forum, joining in the war against infidelity.....

OK, here is the latest...

Wife asks what I'm doing this weekend.

I tell her "My plan is the same. I will take baby to see my parents tongiht and be back tomorrow".

She says, "Well, I'll be gone all weekend. You should too!."

And I said "Well, We will be here when you get back."

she said "Well, I don't want you there! Why don't you just GO!"

So I say "I thought you were going to be gone all weekend?"

And She says "Well, I might want to come and go as necessary to pick up things"...
-----------------------------------------
Obviously, I'll have to be home as much as possible...

Gramn, BE THERE and be sure you and the baby are having a GREAT TIME without your WW.