Gramm, you are right, she will hold it against you for a short while, but guess what? That won't break up your marriage. An affair WILL. This affair is going to destroy your marriage unless you get to work and do everything in your power to break it up. You cannot afford to accommodate your many fears right now. The most effective method of busting up an affair is EXPOSURE. Your marriage can and will survive some temporary anger from your wife, it WON'T survive an affair.

Secondly, if he has talked to 2 board members, he has hand picked some sympathetic ones and spun the story to them. That means they likely have a fake story. And while you are sitting here dithering around spinning your wheels, he is being allowed to spin the story. If you contact the board, you ensure that the CORRECT story gets out there and it gets to everyone.

You don't know how they will react to your exposure. As far as you know, they will warn him or lay him off. Either way, your exposure will make the affair very very uncomfortable for him. Exposure takes all the fun out the affair because it forces the infidel to explain himself. when forced to explain an affair, the light of reality becomes to shine in as the infidel hears how ridiculous he sounds to normal people. An affair cannot last long in the light of day.

Just look at your W, GRamm, and how exposure has caused her so much trouble. She is losing friends and is forced to explain and justify herself. This puts GREAT PRESSURE on an affair.

And you should keep this pressure up before they have a chance to regroup and recover a little bit. The longer you wait, the better able they are equipped to handle it.

Gramm, there is risk in everything, but you don't seem to understand what the GREATEST risk really is right now. And it is the affair. Not EXPOSURE. If you don't take a risk to break up this affair, then you should be very scared. Scared of losing your wife to an affair, because you weren't willing to do the hard stuff.

Gramn

Listen to Melody.... Every word in her post is "dead on".

You are "thinking" yourself into inaction that is very harmful to your cause... saving your marriage. People encouraging your to Expose are a combination of well read MB "believers" and people who exposed with positive results, and lastly, (this group includes me) people who should have exposed hard and heavy, who didn't, and it took months longer to get the affair to end.

Please reconsider your stance on the letters to the Y.

Best wishes,
SD

Gramn - Please don't make me give you a cyber-slap. You went to Victoria's Secret with your wife, and she bought stuff to wear while being with the OM? And then you watched your daughter so your wife could be out with the OM?

But you don't want to send the letter to the Y?

Gramn, if you expose Y Guy, what's your wife going to do? Leave you? Have an affair?

Buddy, I wish I could go back and drop the bomb on *my* OM.

He isn't going to look so romantic to her, applying for unemployment benefits and scrambling around trying to explain his actions.

Best of luck, I am really pulling for you.

You've got some good points here...
I can't argue that...

I'm so sick of this whole thing.

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Latest story... Wife wants to know if I'd like to take the baby to my parents place for a few days this weekend. I don't mind taking her there for a little while, even overnight, but the whole weekend? She says that she has no plans yet, but I'm sure I know what she'd like to plan while I'm gone. Well, I will not take off all weekend. She can watch our daughter saturday night and sunday. See her do anything "romantic" while watching the baby...

Are you on crack? HELL NO! Of course you won't go to your parents with the baby so she can freely rut with the hawg without your interference. Tell her this is your home and you are not leaving it so she can openly carry on her affair. Tell her that you expect her to stop carrying on her affair while you love together and you are very hurt that she would even consider such a cruel act. Tell her that it is very disrespectful to you and D for her to carry on her affair right under your nose from your OWN HOME.

Tell her that you will not be accommodating her affair in any way shape or form. You will not babysit, nor will you allow her daughter to be left with a sitter while she carries on an affair. For her to even ask such a thing is grossly disrespectful to you and your child. Tell her this, Gramm.

Quit acting like her requests are normal.

Melody, I agree with all that. I DO NOT act like her requests are normal. BUT, she does not REQUEST anything. She just goes out with "the girls" or "a group" to get away from me. I know that some of those times, she is even telling the truth.. And how can I not stay with my daughter? Sure, i can sometimes go out for a night to force her to stay home, but even then, I don't know what she is doing while the baby is asleep in the other room.

I have said (and will say again) that OM is NOT WELCOME in our house. BUT, I can't be there 24/7. That is why this is so frustrating.
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Feelin Groovy... Please check your email account. There was a problem with your package...

Gramn,

That is why you have to put pressure on the relationship. She is using you right now figuring well if he wont leave I am just going to go about my business like he doesnt exist. It is maddening.

Take the chance and take the next step. Put pressue on HIM. Take the risk. Everything you said above is a "what if". The only things certain is if you keep going down this path you are going to make yourself nuts.

Stop and think. How would you feel if someone came to you and said "oh by the way, some crackpot is going to call or send a letter saying I am having an affair with his wife. It is true, I left my wife and have a relationship with this women but this guy is insane."

Hello...who sounds crazy. There is no credible way to cover it up.

Sure your wife will probably be pissed and blame you if he dumps her. That will happen anyway cause I bet his wife will want to reconcile eventually. Or even he will. The important thing she will realize he was not Prince Charming and now she is alone and responsible for the breakup of a family

Turning up the heat will only force out the reality of the fantasy sooner and end your torment. Even if it ends up being over (and the shoe shopping puts a big if into it) then you can begin to recover. Right now you are spinning your wheels. Time to take some action and get on with your life. Force her hand...you are making it too easy to continue this right in your face. She has to make some tough choices and is buying time.

Whether you send this letter or not is up to you but you have to make a stand somehow. You are not a doormat, babysitter, or her gopher.

Tell her in a firm but calm manner. MAKE HER MAKE THE decisions. Ask her WHAT HER INTENTIONS are because you feel you and your daughter deserve to know. Reinforce that you are not leaving but it is time she makes up her mind on what she wants to do.

Yes she may move out. I highly doubt she can remove your daughter from YOUR home without some court order. She cannot just take her somewhere else. She is part of your home and your wife chooses to leave that home. I know I was interested in this because my in laws live out of town and my daughters were up there when I had my D Day. I wanted to be sure they COULDNT STAY there and would be brought home. This is HER choice to abandon the two of you for Y Guy. By the way he wont be so interested in taking care of another needy soul when his family will have some needs.

You may even want to tell her your intentions or hopes (yes again). You are hoping that she will stay and focus solely on your healing your family. This would mean NC with Y guy and really working on your problems so that you could be possibly be a functioning family again. You know there are problems but want to work at fixing them and cannot do that with Y guy in the picture. Tell her you cannot quit on your family without giving it everything you have. She and you daughter are that important to you.

You cannot keep going on like this...it is abusive.

Also....start suggesting YOURSELF that you could go grocery shopping as a family. Yeah it will be a little weird and uncomfortable but it may be possible one of the things she needs is companionship.

Do you/ did you do much together in terms of fun as a family. Children tend to take that away since you are preoccupied with their needs.

How bout this. See if your parents will take your child for the weekend and YOU spend time with her. I know it sounds crazy and will not be what she wants but try it. Go do something you both enjoy. Rollerblade, bike, movies. What you used to do prior to the child.

Just some thoughts on meeting needs. Again you probably have a million excuses on why this wont work but you will never know unless you take the chance.

I sure can't keep going on like this.

If she does what she says, this is what she will do: She will file for divorce as soon as possible. In her filing, she will (maybe) specify a new address. She will try and find a place to live. An apartment or whatever. She will try to take the baby. (She will not leave without the baby) Apparently, either of us can take the baby or do whatever we want until there is a court order. (As long as we do not leave the local area.)

Even if Wife takes baby, I will be sure that baby stays with me at our house 1/2 the time.

SO, on one hand, I don't want her to leave. It is hard to meet EN or negotiate things when she is not here. I also do NOT want her to take the baby AT ALL, as that could screw up custody stuff later.

On the other hand, the existing status quo can't stay this way. It is insulting and stressful.

Amen!!!!!!!!

Something like that is a good idea. Nonthreatening, but something that requires companionship. I'll have to think of things that are necessary, but could be done by a group.



This has been a problem in our marriage for the last year, long before OM came along. To me, couples activites are an important EN. I guess she does all of her fun activities during the afternoon at the Y, while I am at work. I always want us to do activities as a couple or family, and she is almost never interested. (Besides meals, occasional shopping and watching TV) I read her a list of couples' activities from Dr. Harley's book a month or two ago to see if we could get some ideas. She was either uninterested or said they were "too expensive" to EVERYTHING on that list. I would say something like "Lets go walk at the park" and she would say "You and baby go."

Now, she is usually not even willing to watch TV or eat with me. But when she is out with her new "friends" now, she goes to political rallies or watches wrestling. THings that would normally bore her.

Good thoughts by all. But I have a slightly twisted view of this...

First, you must continue to outline that her meeting or being with OM is unacceptable. I agree with this. You must also say that consider it wrong that she leaves the home to be with him...at any time.

But...her being with the OM for a few days...while hurtful to you, is also helpful to you. Yes, I hope she doesnt do it. But if she does, let's look at the positive. She wants you to leave with daughter so she can carry on an affair in your home. (by the way, you did document this, right??). Now, you say you wont. That you find it unacceptable. And that you and daughter will be there as a family, as she should be.

But then she goes out and decides to just go be with him somewhere for those few days, leaving you and daughter at home. Do you know what that does for you legally?? It is the same as a triple in baseball. It will show that she puts her sexual needs before her daughter and before her family. That is against the law...and that is a major hit against her. My wife knows that if we ever went to court again, that she carries that stygma as a person that would put another person ahead of her children...that she would put an immoral sexual relationship ahead of her kids. A HUGE negative for the judge!!

So, while you would hope she wakes up, let's look at this realistically. She is in the "run" phase of this. She is doing everything she can to get with the OM. She is meeting him, and probably having sex already. But she wants more. She wants to be with him more...she wants to legitimize it. She is addicted and needs more of her fix. So, she will begin to be more brazen, more open as she tries to get it. She HAS to have it, in her mind.

And we all know that any person in a position like hers, that "needs" something that bad...will make huge mistakes in order to get it. We have seen women on crack sell their babies for more crack. I watched my wife act very similar with our kids.

This is all to your advantage. You cannot stop them from hooking up. There will be more, and she will most probably try or make it to being with him in some capacity. I firmly believe that as long as you do not leave, that she is going to. Especially if OM bolts on his wife. But, the key to this is...how in the world is the OM going to meet all of her needs? Interesting enough, you are meeting some of her needs (hence, the trip to the shoe store). She wants family. In a weird way, she wants you as family, as a friend, as a father. You are filling those needs.

But if she goes, and you hold onto the family home and her daughter...she will have to come visit her own home and her own daughter to get a fix. And that WILL NOT be enough.

All of a sudden, the Om is meeting the needs he is currently meeting, but he is woefully deficient in being able to meet the others that you meet and your daughter meets. He CANNOT meet all of her needs. You CAN!!! That is the point of Plan A...to meet those needs as best you can that the OM is meeting...so that she eventually sees that the only place possible to "get it all" is back home with you.

I think your wife has to run. I think she is going to have to go be with OM, if that is possible. Which is why I continue to argue the case that you have to make sure your daughter stays. This woman is like that crack woman...willing to even sell her baby. Your wife is capable of puttign the OM ahead of yoru daughter. You cannot allow your daughter into that environment.

So, in short...you DO NOT leave. You keep on script with her. You take the baby and be with her and care for her in her absence as she runs around. You document everything. If she tries to leave, you hold onto that child.

And when/if this goes to court, the jusge will see you..the responsible father maintaining the family home and taking care of your daughter....versus the immoral WW willing to leave, and wanting to take your daughter away from her home and subject her to this immoral lifestyle.

That is a homerun, Gramn. Ultimately, for your marriage, you may be very similar to mine. Steve Harley said that our marriage's greatest asset were our kids and the fact they were still with me. The OM NEVER had a chance to establish some kind of legitimacy by acting like a "dad" with my kids. My wife used to complain that "if you loved me, you would let the kids go out to dinner a few times with me and OM...so we could see how things might be." I know, total fog talk. But, to a WW, having the kids there helps them stay in the affair.

Not having her kids or her family home or the other things only you can provide...will be the death toll on that relationship. That is why you must stay on script...you must stay in that house...and you must maintain your daughter with you. More important even than exposing tto the Y board is doing these three things. And, oh yeah....document, document, document. You might even start covertly recording your conversations with her. I did. Very helpful in court when she says "I never said that."

She is setting her self up for a big fall. You are now in the position of power if you do this right. And that relationship will end, as long as you take care of business. Count on it!!

In His arms.

Interesting take on this, MM.

Stick around and let her leave for a few days if that is what she wants.
\
When I told her that I did not plan to leave all weekend, she said that her plans would be ruined. I wonder what she was planning anyway? I wonder what she will do if I stick around? Hmm...
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After thinking about it, I KNOW what she'll do. Besides being all pissed off, which is not important, she will continue her "late night out" pattern. Going out in the evening and returning late, making me "babysit".

Oh, and don't worry I've got all this in my journal.

Gramm, listen to MM! Secure your finances and file for custody of your child!

Our son was an OTR Truck driver. One Saturday night, his wife and her OM informed the OM's BW that they were "in love". Not knowing this, my H stopped by their house the next morning and asked if we could have the kids for the day. He thought DiL was acting "funny" (probably because the OM was hiding in the bedroom), but she agreed and let him bring the boys to our house.

We spent an enjoyable day with the boys. I had to run to WalMart for a few minutes, and when I got back, H said, "(OM's W's name) wants you to call her." He got up from the kitchen table and went into the family room. I already had a kind of weird feeling about why she would be calling me, which was reinforced when 3-yr-old DGS#1 said, "My mama said 'Don't tell Grandpa about (OM's name)'." So, I called the OM's wife and she told me everything. I then called DS. He told me to keep the boys with us, and to call our lawyer. We called the lawyer, and he filed for divorce and temp custody on Monday (the next day).

In the meantime, DiL figured out that we knew what she was up to and did NOT come to pick up the boys as she had earlier agreed. She called on the Monday morning and demanded to know when I was going to let her have her kids. I was polite and told her that DS said for the boys to stay with us, but that she was more than welcome to come to see the boys at our house. Now, she could have come got the boys if she had gotten an attorney and a court order, but she had no money, and OM sure wasn't going to pay for her lawyer.

I went NOWHERE with the boys until the judge signed off on the temp custody order, because she could have come up to me in a public place and just taken the boys. Coming to my house was another thing, altogether.

She did call the boys everyday, and I assured her that she could come visit the boys without any negative comments from me. She stayed away for almost a month, and then came crawling back to DS after OM dumped her. She never changed her ways, though, and DS eventually divorced her. She did get primary physical custody in the divorce, but later abandoned the kids with DS for 3 months after getting into trouble over stolen and forged checks. They tried reconciliation again, which failed. She then left the kids with DS to move to Texas with her new BF. DS filed for custody, things got nasty, and in the end, she finally agreed to give him sole physical custody. DS has remarried, and the kids are finally in a stable home.

Point is, you CAN get custody of your child. Secure your finances and file for custody FIRST. She will have to come up with enough money for a retainer, which can be hefty if the attorney knows that you will fight for custody, as will be evident by your filing first. So, if she has no money, that will limit her ability to fight you for custody.

So, she will have to come up with enough money to hire a lawyer, get a place to live...and all the associated expenses involved with setting up a new residence. Can she do this?

FILE and EXPOSE, Gramm!

She may leave for a few months! Mine was gone 5 months before she was ready to come home. Then satyed gone an additional 2 months until she actually did.

Ask her "What plans, honey? Maybe if you tell me what you might be wanting to do, maybe I can help you in some way." Of course, if she isnt trying to bring over the ladies gardening club for a weekend of teas...and she wants to be with OM in your house, then you say "That is not acceptable, honey. Yo uare my wife, and this is our house. I cannot stop you from doing this somewhere else, but this will not happen in our home. Yo uare free to leave and do what you want. I dont wnat you to, but I cannot stop you. I am standing for our marriage and our family." If you are ruining their little lovers weekend in your home and bed, then GREAT!!!

And you keep documenting, and keep racking up the time with your daughter. And I would add, that you probably should continue to get intel, intel that shows where she went on some/all of those nights. Intel on if they were meetings/SF with the OM. Will be a big difference if she is meeting with a group of her friends, over a meeting for sex with the OM.

Excellent!

I asked her this morning. And wow was she mad! "I don't want to be away from my daughter. It will be hard for me, but I thought that it would be a nice offer to let you take her away for the weekend"
She said that besides one of her friend's having a dinner friday night, that she had no plans. BUT she hoped to! (And I ruined them by saying that I'd be back Saturday night...)

Just come back and suggest that the three of you do something together instead. Tell you dont expect much but you enjoyed the shoe shopping and thought the three of you could do something together. Any activities in town this weekend. Carnivals/Fairs a playground to take the kid too. Make a day of something.

Do force it but offer. I think it is confusing as hell if she keeps pushing you away but you keep pulling her closer. Showing her that despite of everything she has done you still want her back. Reinforce the family aspect. You cant stop her from running but you make it difficult. Tug at her heart strings and make sure you are there for her.

It is uncomfortable as can be at first. It feels forced but in time it is natural. If she can see you can function as the idealic family how can anyone want anything else.

It is uncomfortable as can be at first. It feels forced but in time it is natural. If she can see you can function as the idealic family how can anyone want anything else.

This is from the Plan A "fake it till you make it" theory.

Begin planning activities that were "fun" for you and WW when you were courting... concerts, comedy clubs, picnics, whatever... and invite her along. If she declines, appear uneffected. Pay no attention to her response.

Ignore her anger. Speak only in subdued tones, and never commit LoveBusters. Speak only in firm tones when you are reassuring her you love her, you want the marriage, you want to work things out. Otherwise, disattached from her drama, and go about your business. Take your baby and go do things that are of at least passing interest. Stay busy and relieve yourself from the constant drama.

View her ONLY as an alien whose brain is missing, and stored somewhere on a mothership. Treat her accordingly, as if it's a stranger in your life, because while in the fog, she IS a stranger.

Stay calm, cool and undramatic at all times. Do NOT let her ruffle your feathers. Plan A is all about control of your own emotions, letting her only see the very BEST of you. Be that fun, charming, engaging gentleman she fell in love with.

All this will confuse the hell out of her! Be patient, and do your thing and watch her squirm! It works, Gramn, and you can do it!

SD