1) Go get your daughter. Take care of your daughter yourself the rest of the weekend.

2) tell the police or one of her parents about her threat of suicide. She should be evalutated professionally. Or call her bluff on this because it is never to be taken lightly. Do whatever you do calmly, firmly, but with loving concern. Be the sane one.

She should not have taken your daughter with her to apartment hunt or when she threatened suicide. I have to wonder why you let her take your D after saying that.

It seems like having a record of her threat would be more in your favor than not. Another plus for reporting your concern.

You are too willing to let her walk all over you. You should never have tried to get Y-guys job back as if this is your fault. Your thinking on this got all screwed up. Please listen to Believer, Mel, MM, LH etc.. They've been right on with their advice to you.

Remember you are not the unstable, evil, crazy one here.

Break this down:

She is either suicidal or not.
Gramn can call the cops or not.

(Assume WW not suicidal.)

Not suicidal + no cops = nothing. Baby is OK.
Not suicidal + cops = WW gets a wake up call not to threaten suicide. If she goes nuts in front of the cops, good for Gramn. Baby is OK.

(Assume WW actually suicidal.)

Suicidal + cops = WW cools heels under observation. Good for Gramn, good for WW. Baby is OK.
Suicidal + no cops = ???

The only possible outcome which has an unknown outcome for the baby includes not calling the cops.

Gramn, this is going *by the book.* You are a better man than most to face this situation like you have. I have a great deal of hope for you.

Gramn, bay, we love you and are concerned about you. We're not trying to beat up on you, okay?

This Suicide Threat very well could be real. Even if not, she is waaaaay over the edge to even be saying such a thing. She truly thought she had something "special" with YGuy, and that's now not quite the possibility she thought it was. She feels almost like you did when you discovered the affair. She now sees that YGuy cares more for his wife, and is desperate. And she hasn't been the most rational person through this all.

Now is the time to be calm and cool and firm. You should go get your daughter. Bring the police or a friend, heck, have him in the car with a video camera if you have to, to document everything in case she wigs out and becomes violent. But your daughter is what matters now. She needs to be somewhere safe and secure, and that is in your arms. Don't push that responsability off on a family friend!

This isn't LB'ing. This is deep concern, plain & simple. You can tell her, plainly, calmly and simply, that you are deeply worried about her and your DD with what she revealed before she left. She cannot fight that. She said it.


slh

I will see what I can do.

It seems like having a record of her threat would be more in your favor than not. Another plus for reporting your concern.

Just thought this should be highlighted -- it's an excellent point, Trix!


slh

I called the Suicide Prevention Line.

They had good advice. THey told me to ask the friend to take away her sleeping pills. I called the woman and she said that she would.

If the police came, they would just ask her "Are you suicidal?" I dont think that would be very effective, especially if she's at these people's 4th of July party.

Gramn, be strong. I am praying for you. Please let us know that your DD is ok. Please consider going to get her and not leave her in the care of your WW.

Don't back down Gramn, you are doing heroically well.

Gramn, Hon, wouldn't your 2 yo be happier with you at home than at an adult's 4th of July party?

She's still so small. I have one that age, will be three soon.

You are doing good. Really. Just continue being strong for that Little One.

{{{GRAMN}}}


slh

Gramm-

I am going to be a bit blunt because this sitch requires it. What is the absolute worst possible outcome? Your WW commits suicide and hurts your DD in some way. Would you ever be able to forgive yourself? I am only saying this because we do not know how she will act. It's more likely that she would just harm herself, but we are making a lot of assumptions and there is no way to know. I would hate for you to do nothing and the worst happens.

And, as you would like to save your M, caring for your WW, and DD, when she is not capable of doing so herself (fog/WD) is part of that. It is not your responsibility to determine if she is serious, leave that to the professionals. The best case scenario is that at least your DD is not with her while she is saying these crazy things. WW probably feels absolutely devastated by OM's rejection. And she is not in a place, yet, to accept you. She has lost a lot of her friends and her parents are not thrilled with her. I believe Dr. Harley states suicidal ideation is not uncommon for WS during WD and when coming to terms with the mess they have created.

I urge you to consider this the way you did exposure. MM told you to consider scenarios and possible outcomes and then reactions to those outcomes. If harm comes to DD or WW, what would you feel/how would you react? OK, now, any horrifying outcome that involves either of them being hurt is avoidable.

If WW is crying wolf, then you need to call her bluff and this being on record is good in the event of S or D. If she is not (and there is no way for you to know), then you are getting her much-needed assistance and protecting your DD.

I do not want you to ever say,"If only..." Part of loving her is protecting her from herself during this trying time.

Hi Gramn,

I, like many others I see, am following your story, in fact, I have spent my entire day (literally) reading ALL of your posts. I thought perhaps I might offer a different perspective on your situation...I am a total "newbie" as you can see by my reg. date, so please all of you veterans, straigten me out if I say something wrong here...

First, I'll give you a short bio so you know exactly how my perspective may be a fresh one for you. You see, I am a just barely formly wayward wife(age 35)...DDay April 26, 2005...NC June 20, 2005, yep that's right tomorrow will be 2 weeks to the day of no contact. So yes, I'm still in the "fog" at least partially...I cannot tell you how very much your story has cleared some, if not all, of my fog... thank you from the bottom of my heart...trust me, my WONDERFUL husband(age 38) thanks you too. And though she doesn't know it, my 5 year old daughter is incredibly grateful as well.

See, I am already reading SAA and know that I do not want to be apart from my husband, but I'm still in the withdrawal stage, and I was having a really tough time with it(see my post Wayward Wife Needs Support under GQ2 if you want to know specifics). I was still "on the fence" so to speak...seeing a psychic to hear what I wanted to hear--"he(the OM) loves you so much", "you are 'meant to be'"...(I'm a Christian, and have never believed in such nonsense-fog/addiction clouds EVERYTHING!), thinking about contacting him, talking to my best friend about my feelings of "love" for him, our "connection" and "fate", etc..

As today has gone on, I have related your story to my husband, and as I did so I began to really open up to him...telling him how the psychic said that I should leave him, that she said he had threatened the other man(he didn't, though he shoulda, coulda, woulda exposed us and all our crap...) and that she also said that he had been repeatedly unfaithful to me in our marriage(also not true)-she's gifted, eh? Anyway, I vowed to never see her again...she is a huge threat to the security of our family...I now see that so clearly. I also told him the passwords to both of my email accounts-(one soley started for the OM), as well as the password to my cell phone...Today, because of your story, all of the incredible advice given to you, and, of course, the Grace of God, I would gladly lay bare to my husband anything and everything that I or he can think of. I also told him that he didn't have to reveal if/how he is/was "spying" on me...I want to be accountable to him, and because I'm still in withdrawal, I want him/our family to have the advantage of catching me if I slip up. I'm human, I'll have bad days and good days, I'm sure.

I have been able to see how selfish my actions were and how I tried to destroy my precious family. For what? A cowardly OM who cared so much for me that at the first sign of reality/daylight "tucked tail and ran", leaving me high and dry...Intimacy? I THINK NOT!!!

Just 16 days ago, I was telling him that if I had to choose between he and my spouse, that I would choose him...what a fool I would have been, for so many reasons. Please know that I was in just as deep as your wife, if not deeper, if you read my thread, you'll see the small town history that I shared with the OM, that I believed to be my "soulmate" just a mere few days ago. Like all WSes, I could have explained just how in love that we were, and that ours was "UNIQUE", the stuff that storybooks are made of. Guess what, storybooks feature great heros, and great heros DO NOT become romantically involved with married people! It digusts me now to think of how I devalued and emasculated my husband to the OM. Now, a quote that keeps popping into my head in regard my husband is, "there is nothing so strong as gentleness and nothing so gentle as real strength"...

My husband had just begun to put Plan A to use, I admire him so much for doing the research, buying SAA and HN/HN and for caring enough about me and the good of our family to fight for all that we were and will become...What A Man...what an incredibly smart, strong, good man! Gramn, I want you to know that I NEVER thought I'd feel like that about him, in fact, around 16 days or so ago, I asked him for a legal separation...he said NO, God Bless Him!!! I told him constantly how the other man was so much more masculine than him, etc. Guess who I think is more manly now???

I'll never forget the night that I came out of the bathroom and found my husband on his knees praying, how I scoffed at him and couldn't wait to ridicule him to the OM for it. When I told the OM about it, it was the beginning of the end, the OM didn't make fun of him like I thought he would, he said, "Wow, this guy REALLY does love you!"...Thank you God for all the mysterious ways in which you work!

In my thread the other day, I was searching for "closure" and the answer to why did the OM end things so abruptly? Reading your posts has made me truly understand this...WHO CARES WHY! It was wrong and I am lucky beyond belief... that's all the closure that I need.

Early this morning I read an e-book that my husband bought from another site and one of the neatest things that it said was, "if God said it, does it have to make sense to you?". I know that a lot of the things that you've learned from the folks on this site haven't made a whole lot of sense to you, but I can tell you from the WS perspective that every one of the Dr. Harley principles that they are "feeding" you would have worked on me and my "textbook" sleazy behavior. Marriage is an institution of God, and I guarantee you that He is on the side of any website that is working so hard to uphold what's in His Divine Plan.

I am writing to you for two reasons, one, to say thank you, and two, to show you how quick and realistic an "about face" can be. Everything that you have done has been dead on, and though I would have "hated" him at the time if my husband had had to do all the "reveals", I can promise you, without question, that I would have admired him and thanked him later. I am a hot head/control freak, so for me to say this is HUGE, but it is very true!!!

One of the wonderful people on this site posted something to me that hit home the other day about how my feelings about my husband would change, something about how that my husband was the one still standing here with his hand held out for me...so true...do that for your wife and family, you will be so glad that you did, no matter what the future holds for you.

I will continue to follow your story and pray for you...say a prayer for my family too if you will...we still have a long road ahead of us...I am not blind to the work we have before us. I now plan to stand beside my husband and fight for the marriage and family that God intended us to have.

You stay strong Gramn, keep hope alive...you are the Man in the White Hat here! You've got tons of people pulling for you(how amazing is MortarMan? In fact, aside to MortarMan...what an amazing servant God has in you, thank you for your part in pulling me back into the fold!). Most importantly Gramn, Jesus is on your side. I'll let you in on a secret, I've read His book and the good guys win in the end...you will get through this, no matter how dark it may seem now...I wish you and everyone God's Immaculate Will and Peace...

WWWondering

WWWwondering...
Wow, you read this all in one day?! I hope you are mainly reading the other posters excellent advice. I'm not that great of a writer myself, (Half the time I don't even correct all of the my spelling errors!)compared to some of the great inspirational messages that have been written to me here. One of Mortarman's posts actually made me cry!

But, I guess my life has become pretty interesting lately... (Too bad its not interesting in a "Vacation to Italy" kind of way) This all still seems sort of surreal to me.

I'm very glad that my story has somehow inspired you. Even if my life never recovers, I'm glad at least some good will have come from all of this.

And WWWondering, please spend a lot of time w your husband figuring out that EN stuff. That seems to be one of the keys to me that we had trouble with. Even if your husband is trying his best to meet your needs, make sure that you are communicating to him which are the MOST IMPORTANT needs...

----------------------------
Well, tonight I'm here alone and bored. I'm very annoyed that I drove all the way back here to be with Wife and practically as soon as I arrived, she took off with Daughter. I'll have to get her back tomorrow somehow.

OK, here is the latest.

Wife and Baby stayed with these aquintences last night. Apparently baby slept well, but wife had a terrible night.

Today, i told her to bring daughter here, so we can play/interact today.

That is fine, but she wants me to watch daughter tonight for a few hours. Why? So she can meet w YGuy again! Damn it!

I would get daughter and keep her safe at home. You know that the affair is crashing and burning.

Be sure to let Y-guy's wife know about the little tryst. In fact, I would let her know first thing today.

Call the Y-guys' wife! Please stop making it so dang easy for the infidels.

www...thank you. The Lord has put so many people in my life over the last few years that helped me thru my situation. I am so glad that my relationship with Him has deepened as it has. And I am amazed at what I can see and understand now, being so close to Him. It only makes me want to get closer.

I am glad you have come to help Gramn. I am more glad that you have chosen to follow the Lord in all of this. One note...never, ever talk to psychics again, okay? The Bible speaks about these people...and what they tell you only comes from one source...Satan.

I pray you and your husband find your way thru this. remember, once the fog clears, your husband will need your help as much as you need his.

Now, I will bow out of this threadjack. Gramn...listen to what is being said here by WWW. My wife's change was almost instantaneous as was WWW's.

In His arms.

Call Y-Guys wife AFTER you get your daughter. Then make sure you document. Document her continued adultery, continued putting the OM ahead of her daughter and her family.

She isnt sleeping well because she is in a bad place. You are not. Relax and just let her mind go crazy. In reality, you are going to have to wait for her next move in order to know fully what to do.

But with that waiting, there is still things to do:

Protect your daughter
Document
Get your financial and legal stuff in order
Continue to find ways to get info on the affair

As you have seen, this stuff works. It may be surreal (and I agree!!) but it is how this all works. So, please trust this stuff (MB) and that your wife isnt any different than any other WW. Okay?

Keep quiet about your plans. Bluff a little even. How? well here's an example...

WW: "I cant believe you were spying on my emails. Well, I am not going to use that anymore."

Gramn: "That's okay. I dont really need that anyway. There are other sources that I got most of my intel from anyway. Honey, you cannot do this in secret. I know what is going on."

And then be quiet. Dont say anything more. Dont tell her anything or answer her questions. I did this with my wife. And she ran around forever looking over her soulder...not knowing if I was listening to her calls in her apartment or was following her, or whatever.

Affairs cannot survive the light. If they are constantly worrying, they cant be having ver much fun.

One more thing...according to your previous posts, your wife does not have access to the kind of money it will take to get an apartment. keep it that way. Make sure she does not have access to your money or savings. Open a new account tomorrow and move everything there. This is legal, as she has threatened to leave, threatened suicide, etc. Do that now.

What other sources will she have to get money from in order to move? The OM? Parents? Who else do you think?

In His arms.

She might cash in part of her 401k for Apartment money.
She has had trouble finding a decent apartment in a decent area (for a decent price) though.

Gramn...(Thanks for your returned support...my H and I are working on our EN Questionaires right now...say a prayer that we are guided in the right direction)

Please don't get discouraged, stick with the plan, so far it has produced the exact results that the "vets" told you it would, you can't give up, keep forging ahead...if it were me, I would print out or just read and re-read MortarMan's posts...use the advice of others as inspiration, but it seems to me that MortarMan has "the other team's playbook" and is so adept at breaking it down for you play-by-play...glad to know that we had/and hopefully still have people like him in our military...God Bless the U.S.A.!

NOW, ARE ALL OF YOU "VETS" LISTENING?...I'm still so very new in my/our recovery that I'm afraid of giving the wrong advice...so please, if I do, let Gramn(and me)know...I really want to help, but I don't want to do more harm than good...

This is something that my husband did that worked on me...think it might work for Gramn too??? As the WS, you really are embarrassed/ashamed of your behavior once it is revealed(otherwise you wouldn't be hiding it, right?), but pride and all the other bad feelings that you are going through act as "blockers" for your "opening up" to your spouse(at least for me). My husband kinda of opened things up for me by saying, that he understood how our marriage was "ripe" for an affair to happen...he said that he knew that he had not been a "good" husband (he never mentioned that I had not been a "good" wife-though VERY true...he knew how fragile my state was).

Anyway, it was this environment that made me feel that I could begin to talk to him about what I had done(WSes are very self-centered, and love to talk about themselves and their super "unique" situations)...he opened the door a crack for me, held out his hand and slowly I began to reach for it little by little.

He also just left "Surviving an Affair" sitting around in the open without ever even suggesting that I read it...one night when I felt soooo...low, and was racking my brain for any way that I could ease my own pain, I began to read it of my own avail and my fog began to lift bit-by-bit...Baby steps in the right direction...Do you guys see something like that working for Gramn?

Gramn, I hope that God sees fit to use even a tiny tidbit of "my story" to help you in some way...I would be so very honored if He would use me in this way...if you have ANY questions about what the WW wife is "thinking" I'd be glad to shed any light that I can...but always check with the "pros" before taking any of my novice/possible fog filled advice. They are so right about this stuff...Affairs REALLY DON"T survive the light of day, no kidding!!!

One day I hope that your wife comes here to read as I have and is just as amazed as I have been about how very predictable the behavior that, trust me on this, she thought was so "unique" to her and her situation actually is...it's almost comical how identical that we all(WSes) are.

God is with you on this, and will move mountains for you if you let Him...take good care of you Gramn!

WWWondering

*Gramn, praying for you. Be strong, be bold.

*Wondering, you are such a blessing. Thank you for the input you are offering here. It's a side I had never seen and it is really a vision I needed to see. Bless you.

StillLovingHim

Wondering - Please, please keep posting. There are lots of us BS's here. We really have a very hard time explaining the WS's behavior. So talk away - your input is greatly needed.