First, Gramn you are doing great! You are becoming a hero for your M and your DD!

I find this so disgusting that the CEO of YMCA (C as in Christian)would be allowed by the board to get away with this until threatened with exposure. Grrr...I can see why WAT sees so much hyopcrisy in Christianity. BTW, I AM a Christian and MY church did act when I exposed my FWH.

Keep up the good work, Gramn!

(((( Gramn )))) Do not listen to her. Do not make ANY calls on Y Guy's behalf. They did this to themselves. They are to blame, not you.

When WW tells you to *fix it* say I am trying to fix my marriage !! Hang tough, you can do this.

Asking God for strength for Gramn.

Car

Thanks for the support. I don't feel guilty at all to OM. He SHOULD be fired! My company isn't Christian at all, but if I had an affair with a client, I'd be fired too!
I do feel somewhat bad for his family though.

No, my main concern is that "Is this doing any good???". It seems like this is taking forever and making us all crazy. And so far, I see no benefits. OM & Wife are still communicating. SHe has basically moved out with our daughter to be a guest in some woman's house. THis all just totally seems hopeless.

This battle is lonely, Gramn. I have told you that. And the things you are feeling are natural. And many times, they dont seem like they are the right thing to do. But you will learn that they are. Many times, you will want to believe your wife, or believe that if you give in, she will give in. You must understand one thing about affairs...appeasement never gets you what you want. Why?

Well, think about it a minute. What is an affair? It is selfishness and entitlement on steroids!! The Taker is in its full glory. So, you offer appeasement and what will the Taker do? Take, of course. Will the Taker give back? Of course not. Remember, she feels she is entitled to the affair, entitled to you getting Y-Guy's job back, entitled to have your daughter fulltime, entitled to you supporting her, etc. She believes right now that all those things are her birthright.

The only way to deal with that is to not give it to her. She will jump up and down like a 16 year old girl who's dad just said she cant stay out late with Johnny. "It isnt fair. You dont love me. If you loved me, then you would..." Affairs are the epitomy of childish behavior.

The Y-Guy is not your business!! Your NUMBER ONE PRIORITY is to save your family! His family is his business. If you were in a burning building and could only go into one room and save the people in it, which one would it be...

Room 1: Y-Guy's wife and kids
Room 2: Your daughter

Tough choice huh? But a no brainer. You go for your daughter. Stop worrying about Y-Guy's family!! Everyone on here has told you that it isnt your business, nor your fault.

Exposure has had its desired effect. There is trouble in affair land. They are not happy. Your wife wants things back to where they were...all lovey-dovey.

But guess what is going on with Y-Guy? He is having to find a new job, deal with his wife...and deal with your wife. He is in crisis mode! He has to do something about his job sitch. He has to deal with his wife. Guess who ends up getting table scraps?? That's right...your wife!!

Also, as the OM continues in this mess, he will have to point the finger at someone. And it wont be at himself! So who do you think gets the blame? Of sure, you will Gramn. But in the end, he will look at your wife and wonder why he ever got mixed up with her. She will be more trouble than she was worth. My bet is on Y-Guy showing her the door in very short order. He has no time to support two women. Shoot, he doesnt even have a job to do so right now!! He doesnt have time to hear about your wife's problems and advise her on what to do about you, when he has a wife at home that is tearing him a new one!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Fantasy time is over!! Welcome back to reality!

But Gramn, you have secured the high ground. You are calling the shots now. Do not give up your hard fought gains. Do not give in, nor give up. Even when you feel like that you cannot go another step.

The next issue to deal with is your daughter. Your wife may be stupid enough to cash in that retirement stuff and go for the apartment. That is kind of what my wife did. She took about half of the proceeds of the sale of our home, and moved into an apartment (I wasnt prepared for that...didnt know she had plans on leaving). But within three months, she was declaring bankruptcy. A month later, she was asking the OM for help with her rent. A month later, she was on my doorstep wanting to talk about reconciliation.

WSs do some ver dumb thing. Your wife lives in fantasy world, where she believes you and OM will take care of her. Yeah, right!! OM has no ability to (hence, her wanting you to get his job back). And you have no intention in helping her. So go ahead...cash it in. Get the apartment. Try to furnish it (dont let the furniture go from your home, Gramn). Try to pay for the utilities. Within a month, late notices will come. A month later, she will be borrowing money from relatives or friends. A month later?? Stuff starts being cut off!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now, this is GOOD for your wife because it may be what has to happen to get her to come out of the fog. But think about this for a sec. Do you want your daughter in that mess?

That is why your number one priority now, besides not LBing...is to make sure that your daughter stays in her home. If your wife gets the apartment and then tries to take your daughter and her stuff...you refuse. You hold onto that girl and tell her she can go...but everything and everyone else stays. You have the right to do that, Gramn!! And then go to your attorney and make sure things get filed at that point so you can attempt to secure custody. At that point, she can come visit your daughter...but you will not let her leave until the issue is settled in the courts.

I predict your wife will make a move in some direction in the next 7 days. Hang tough. See if you can get more intel. Prepare for the worst. Your wife doesnt know it yet, though. She doesnt know that she is actually very close to waking up.

In His arms.

Stop your daughter from going! Now. Your wife is setting up residence somewhere else with your daughter. If you continue to allow this, she will be gone. If your wife wants to sleep at a friends house, that is fine. Your daughter sleeps in her bed. You have every right to enforce that. And a judge will not fault you for doing that.

The benefits are happening. The craziness is evidence that it is working. If there was no craziness, I would tell you that your marriage is over. but instead, the mess just signals that your wife is just like every other WW in the fog.

In His arms.

Yes, it is. Your main goal is was to bust the affair. If the affair is still going on, your M has no chance. Thus, the good here is that the affair is experiencing some turbulence, which is exactly what your actions were meant to accomplish. Again, remember, a necessary condition for your M to survive, if it is to survive, is the end of the affair.


Yes, there are benefits. The affair is crumbling. What is wrong is that you expect things to get much better too soon. You have only started to expose about two weeks ago, that is not "forever". It will take months if not years to mend your M. You have put in the right causes into motion. Be a little more patient. Hard I know, but must be done.

The plans seem to be fine, except for this part about my daughter. I'm sure that I can at the VERY least, get favorable custody once the divorce stuff is ruled on, but it seems that it is nearly impossible for me to get custody until then, unless she is violent or something. I am very unhappy that she has taken our daugher out of her home to be a guest in someone else's house with her. But, I have to keep working, and don't want to start a tug-of-war. (WHich she would literally do). Even if I were to force her to leave the girl with me, I would not be able to stay with her all day. She could still take her from a day care or whatever.

Well, if it comes down to it, you've had repeated threats of suicide from your wife...which seems to me to be valid reasons to insist that your daughter stay with you...and if need be, go to the police to request that they bring your daughter home.

I know that the Suicide talk is freaky to me too. When I talked to the Suicide Prevention person, I asked what the cops would do. They would just ask my wife "Are you suicidal?" If the person said "no" they couldn't do anything.

My wife is smart (if crazed) there is no way she'd fall for that, especially with other people around.

So you have a tape recorder? It's been talked about for a while and in an instance such as this, it would work wonders. It's a little harder to deny what is said on tape. Further more, I would recommend for your own knowledge that you contact the police administration department, annon. if you wish, to find out how the system truly works. If someone is in an altered mental state, then they may not have the choice of simply saying 'NO'.

They could have asked my mother a million times if she was still suicidal and she would have said 'NO' a million times. But that didn't change the fact that I had the power of choosing where she went from there. In my state one can be held for 48hours for simply making a threat of suicide to be evaluated.

I have a tape recorder right here and have tried taping phone calls, but it is harder than you'd think. I don't think I have anything that good on record yet.

Every time I talk to her now she says this "WHo have you called? You need to fix this!".

Of course, I'm not motivated at all to fix this. If the Y wants to enforce their own policies, what can I do about it?
She really thinks that if I call enough people that I can get this turned around.

She is sort of in shock. She won't even look at our out of control phone bill, or even see the councilor tonight. (I had to cancel the appointment)

This is good!! Stay with this.

Which was your intent.

So, go to phone company and set the phone up so you have to enter a code for long distance. Then she will be able to make local calls...no long distance. If it is the cell phone, let her know that she can no longer go over minutes like that and if she does, she must pay for it...or the phone will have to be turned off. This is not LBing. It is being financially responsible.

She isnt ready for a counselor yet. The only counselor she will listen to right now is one that will justify her actions, which you dont need. So, it is probably better that she doesnt go. And...guess what? You document her not going to counselor, okay? Why? Because you will continue going to the counselor and she wont. Who looks more responsible to the judge.

Now, on what you wrote about your daughter above...I just have to bring out a small 2x4. Gramn...you are continuing to argue for your limitations. You MUST do the right thing...and God WILL provide. If you think it is okay for your daughter to go into that environment, then let her go. But if you think, as I believe you do, that it is totally inappropriate and maybe even dangerous (suicide threats) for your daughter to leave with your wife, then you should be willing to do whatever it takes to make sure she doesnt go. You have every bit of rights as your wife has. Just as she has a right to take her...you have a right to keep her. And the law will look favorably on you, because you arent the one trying to move your daughter into a messed up environment.

In Virginia, there are criteria written into the law for judges to follow on custody cases. I believe almost all states follow this same criteria, or something very similar. Here is Virginia's:


Here is where you start. Find out what your state has for this kind of guidance. And then figure out where you stand, and what you need to shore up. Write it all out...it will be helpful to your attorney.

I will say it again Gramn...do whatever it takes to protect your daughter!

In His arms.

Post deleted by Gramn

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I already have a copy of those custody guidelines for my state.

Now she is threatening that I can't see my daughter unless I help with this. (and I got it on tape)

She's really desperate.

And really, what could I even do?

You CAN'T do anything...and you should be telling her that.

You should also gently remind her that children are NOT negotiating chips.

Gramn:

I haven't been reading closely. However, I did notice that you were concerned about your WW being suicidal. If so, there is reason to be concerned about the safety of your daughter. Sometimes women want to take there children with them.

Take good and watchful care over this situation, Gramn

Gramn, calm down a minute. She is riding the rollercoaster...screaming all the way. Do not ride with her.

Now, you must forward her threat to your attorney. Keeping a child from its parent, without legal reasons, is a big no-no in court. Get this info to yoru attorney ASAP. He can use this to help show one of those guidelines I listed above...the one where it says which parent is most likely to make sure the other parent remians in the child's life. Your wife is using your daughter as a pawn. The judge WILL NOT like that!

On a personal front, your wife is using your daughter as a pawn in this. This is just another example of why your daughter does NOT belong with your wife. Your wife is willing to even use your daughter in order to make things right with the OM. Can you see this?

The days of your wife home taking care of your daughter are gone right now. I am sorry to say that, but things get tougher for you right now. I had to retire early, costing myself $3800 a month...because I could not afford one more deployment. I had to get home and take care of my kids. After I retired, I was unemployed for two months as I went thru the interview process for my new job. And I had criteria for that job. I needed to be able to have flexibility in order to be there everyday to send kids off to school/daycare and to be there to meet/pick them up in the afternoon.

I didnt like this. Things were so much easier when she was at home. But your wife isnt your wife right now. She is an alien. She is using your daughter...and will use your daughter in the future, in order to exact concessions from you.

This is the natural order of this, Gramn. They all do this. Such is the selfishness of affairs. You must combat this. Come up with a plan NOW on how YOU will take care of your daughter. Contact your attorney and seek further guidance on this. Then get your daughter from your wife (even if you have to do so under the guise of wanting to talk, or whatever) and do not let her go. You see, your wife threatening to keep your daughter from you is illegal and is using your daughter as a pawn. You getting yoru daughter and not letting her go until the courts decide is you being responsible in responding to a woman that is using her child as a pawn and has threatened sucide. There is nothign wrong with that.

Find a way to do this, Gramn. I did...when I didnt think I could do it. My MIL said she gave me a month and figured that I wouldnt be able to make it on my own with the kids. But I did. It was rough at first. A few days late to the bus. Late nights washing clothes. Exhausting! But, once I got the routine going (and a support group of a few people that could help me) then I began handling things very well.

By the way...even though she was POed at me...my wife did notice!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Gramn, she is making the move we expected. She is thrashing around...desparate. Your daughter is being thrown around also. Take her out of that TODAY! You can do it. You should do it.

In His arms.

Gramn-

As crazy as this all seems right now, as whacked out as your wife may be.....this is actually progress.

She's not in happy, happy, joyfully blissful affair land anymore......now she's in "Oh $hit this is the real world, I F-ed up" Land.....and so is Y-Guy.

Something like him being fired might pull a normal couple together, that were in a relationship that was built on honesty, not on the pain of others, and deceit. This is going to rip them apart....I guarantee it.....you just be ready to catch her when she falls.

As far as the suicide thing.....she's depressed because she knows the *A* is coming to an end (Either consciously or unconsciously). It is putting a serious cramp in Y-Guy's style, and he isn't going to put up with it for long.

Think about it, before you knew about the affair, I'm sure they talked of being together, of how perfect they were for each other, how fate must have brought them together (Gag)....but you know, stuff like that. Well, what do you think their meetings are like now?? Do you think they're all romantic?? Heck no they're not, they consist of Y-Guy bemoaning his fate and your wife vowing to have you *Fix* the damage with the Y. She's becoming desperate, because HE'S PULLING AWAY. This affair is going to come crashing around her ears in the very near future Gramn....you've done an excellent job, this is all going according to plan.

Call the local police department, and just ask them if there is any way to report that your wife is speaking of suicide, just so it will be on record. I don't know if they can or not....but try.

Also, stop her from taking that baby (2 year olds are still babies to me) out of that house!!! That is her home, and just because your WW is uncomfortable being there with you (Which, by the way, she's uncomfortable because she KNOWS she screwed up, and is having trouble facing you)doesn't mean your child should be uprooted.

BE FIRM......tell her NO, you are not taking the baby.

She needs to bottom out Gramn.....Y-Guy is going to dump her, and if she doesn't want to be at the house with you, then she needs to be without that little girl too. She needs to feel the consequences of her actions......THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT IS GOING TO SNAP HER OUT OF THIS!!!!!!!!!


-Caren