Usually you can get the phone logs online before the paper bill comes.

Wow, I thought I could kill this thread, but last night at midnight I found out my gut was right.

Just a recap, if you want to read what has been going on, check out my thread on the EN board, How to Rebuild trust...

Things really seemed to be going good, we were getting somewhere, we talked about our future, I know this is all common talk with someone in an A.

She has admitted to having two different lives and being conflicted with it. One who wants to rebuild and the other who likes have no responsibilities.

I have helped her get on her feet from last week when she had 13NSF fees, negative 400 in her bank account, I stupidly helped her get a vehicle, which ironically is parked in OMs drive way.

Here is the lowdown: In the month of april there were 46 calls to his number, some his cell phone, 2 were to his parents house in dallas, some to his home phone. 60 in all I attributed to the two of them. In May they tapered off, 30 at most. I thought maybe it had died, the calls stopped all together the 21st and didnt resume the rest of the month. I dont have this months logs yet.

When we went in tuesday to help get her a vehicle we had to give the salesman references. She gave OMs address, I gave my moms. When she found out she could give family references, she changed to her moms. Freudian slip I think. She said he was my manager, I didn;t know we could give family, she said this to the salesman. She is living with her boss, she shoudl know her address pretty well. OM is not her manager, she just did reports for him. this sent off a red flag. On top of that, two sundays ago W decided to stay at our house for the first time. While I was using her phone, OM called in. I saw it, didnt say anythihng. She noticed the missed call when I got done with her phone, called voice mail and went outside.

When she came back in we sat down to eat, within 5 mins or so she began crying, I asked what was wrong she started talking about how maybe it was too soon to come back to the house, we had already spent the nights together in other places, but this was too tough, that she probably needed to leave. That maybe next weekend she woudl spend the weekend together over at my dads guest house. Which we did, and had SF that weekend. Part of me understood her emotions, but part said hmmm I bet this has to do with OM calling. Red flag again.

She was supposed to go to houston this weekend to help out her aunt, she just had back surgery, her kids werent helping her so W said she would go, W said to me she didnt want to and wanted to be at the lake, i.e. with me. I didn't believe it. I asked her that morning on her voice mail to take a Audio CD to a book Making Love Last a Lifetime, she emailed saying she got the message, she would take the CD. After lunch she emailed talking about some stuff, oh I forgot the CD, I may try and get it before I leave after work. BS I thought.

I came down to San Antonio because I wanted to drive by OMs new house and see if she was going to be there. It seemed like she would, I just had a feeling. Sure enough, around midnight I see her SUV in the driveway, I drive back by at 3:45am, still there. So much for helping her aunt out.

Where do i go from here, I am willing to work thru this, I do love my wife. I did something kinda rash and took off my ring and placed in in a piece of folded paper with the note I know and stuck in under the wiper. Probably too much, but I was really pissed.

Do I call the MIL and tell her if she knew about OM? Do I wait for W to call and tell her we can keep this a secret if we can work it out. Do I go full bore, expose it to all our friends and family, send the phone logs, and details of what has been happening?

I have most the Harley books, FIL/SIL, HNHN, LB, Dont have surviving an affair.

Man, I'm really sorry for the pain your in. What a heinous situation. I'm by no means an expert but maybe now is the time to go to plan B.

I already have Plan B written, I tweaked it last week, I just had a hunch it might come to it. Just to go over Plan B, that is No Contact what so ever correct

No contact at all until certain conditions are fulfilled. Set up an intermediary who can relay messages should she have any non-r related issues in case of emergency.

Maybe you could post your Plan B letter here and have a couple of the experts review it. Morterman is absolutely amazing, get his opinion on it.

Okay, here it is, snatched and tweaked from the MB site.

Dearest Elisabeth,

I have dreaded the day that I would be forced to hand you this letter, so please understand that giving you this letter is the hardest thing I have ever done...

From the moment I first saw you, you have been the REAL love of my life…I love you to no end and my commitment to you and our marriage is strong. Just seeing STILL made my heart flutter…even after 7 years. To this day, the smell of cinnamon is something that always makes me smile. You are a vibrant, funny and beautiful woman who genuinely cares for other and gives generously of her time helping people. I have learned much from you about being kind and what it means to be a GOOD person.

I regret that we find ourselves in this place that is lonely and confusing for both of us. I do apologize for any of my behavior that may have made you feel like you didn’t have a say in joint decisions, for the lack of affection shown towards you in public. I will be working on that part of my personality. It’s taken me a while to actually believe this, but I had nothing to do with your choices to have those affairs, but it doesn’t make it any less painful.

I have done much introspection over the last three months and believe I have found the tools we need to make a marriage in which we are a trusting, loving and supportive of each other. I have really tried to show you that I am a GOOD husband and a healthy person to be with in a marriage. Some of these you have noticed, some you have not. Some you may never know. I must continue with my changes and have demonstrated to myself that it’s possible and they are permanent. I still have my issues to work through, but with every success I have, my hope for MY future brightens and my confidence in my ability to make positive changes is bolstered. My hope is that I will be able to share this bright new future with you.

In order to preserve the love I still have left for you and to stop my bitterness from overwhelming me, I must completely remove you from my daily life. I cannot and will not visit with you, speak with you on the phone, email, or correspond via mail. I must also give myself a fresh start in a happy, positive environment. This is not a punishment. This is a safeguard of my love so that if there should come a time when we can both commit to working on rebuilding our marriage, there is still love and hope left , I pray, with which to do that.

If you must contact me regarding emergency, financial or legal matters, you may e-mail me. I expect our current financial arrangements to stay the same. You can mail any checks for your remaining $90 for the Stephen F. Austin, the $100 for the rental car, the $100 for your aspire card to my mailing address with no notes or other communication enclosed with the checks.

Elisabeth, I have the greatest of confidence that we could build a wonderful marriage if we both committed to making it happen. I have learned so much these last 2 1/2 months and would like nothing better than to share it with you. Should there come a time when you feel you could commit to building a new marriage with me, it is something that I would like to discuss with you. Until then, I ask that you respect my wish for no contact with you.

We were best friends once. I cannot imagine who I would rather spend my life with than my best friend.

I Have Always Loved You,

Jared

I think its excellent!! It would be helpful to get a few more opinions though. Have you already considered how your going to give it to her?

Jared,
sorry that you are in the same place I am in. Not sure of your exact location, but I am in San Antonio. Sounds like you are nearby if not here as well.
I fear that I might not have a lot to offer as far as getting your wife back, as I havent had any luck getting mine back. But, I can offer some things I have learned in terms of being able to cope.
In spite of the emotional turmoil, I have been able to make changes in my life that have brought me to a much better place than I was before WW's A began.
The key is to take the evil that has been done in your life and turn it around for good. Do that, and make a choice to be happy in your day to day life. I know that might sound impossible right now, but you can work towards that goal and eventually you will get there.




"you gotta have a good imagination,
if you are gonna live a life of hope."
Jack Ingram

Thanks to everyone for the support.

As the subject says, the EA was exposed. I posted the Plan B and was waiting to see if I got a response. Around 9:00am Saturday I decided heck with it, it really doesn't matter that much it isn't going to change anything, I need to split. I was staying at a friends house and using it as my command center.

I had made several dozen phone calls btwn midnight at 9am. That morning I starting planning what to do now. I called my mom, told her about the sich, told her to meet me at my house in a few hours when I got home to load up some tubs of stuff. I had several tubs of "our" stuff that I wanted protected. I was going to stop by Home Depot on the way home to change the locks. I called my Dad, told him what was going on, he said to get back home, I assured him I wasn't going to do anything stupid, that I was just tying up some things then I would get be on my way back.

I called my Ws sister, but no answer, called my Ws friend who lives in SA. Talked with her, asked her to be brutally honest with me, if she knew about OM and W and if she knew that W was here in town and staying at OMs house. Friend said no, she said she had a suspicion about OM and W, but W never said anything about it. They are close, and I believed friend that W didn't tell her. I said thank you and hung up.

Call the lady that W is living with, several dozen times, finally left a voice mail to call me.

I emailed wife's mom to ask if W had made it to houston safe, I knew this to be untrue, but I wanted MIL to know that W was supposed to be in houston but wasn't.

I called a buddy of mine who is fully aware of the sich and told him what was going on.

Finally I told the friend whose house I was staying at thanks for everything, that I was out.

It's about a 1.5hr drive north back home. I set out, but I was going to stop off at the apt of the lady W is staying at before going home, I needed to know if she knew about OM and W, and about W being down at OMs house in SA Friday night. I was about an hour into my drive when I saw Ws caller ID come in on my phone. I had thought in my mind beforehand if she called, I probably shouldn't answer, stick to plan B. But since plan B wasn't in effect just yet, I said what the heck, I'll answer.

I answered in a jovial voice, Hey sweetie, how's houston? She asked in a stern voice where am I. I said going home, she asked "where", I said btwn NB and SM. She asked if she could meet me or meet me when I got home. I said fine, I am pulling over at the xxx exit on I-35, I'll be here, my phone is dying, see ya then.

I pulled off, began to read some more of my Changing for Good book I took along with me just incase I had free time in the car. She called again and asked if we could talk about this, that can I please talk just us about this, and not all our friends. She had obviously found out that I had talked to K, the lady she lives with and who is also her boss, who also knows OM. W had not told K about going down to SA or that she was staying at OMs house. She begged me not to tell K that she was in SA, that she had told K she was going to houston. I told her, no, if K calls, I am going to tell her. W asked me not to until W and I talked. Obviously exposing this was a big deal, I knew it, and I was not going to keep it a secret.

I told W that my phone was dying, that I would agree not to call K and tell her what was going on, but if she called me I was not going to lie to K. I told W last week in a conversation that she had been lieing enough. It came up when she asked if she should tell a fib to a friend of ours so we coudl get money faster for the sale of one of our cars to him. It affected her, because W told me she didn't want to K to know that W lied to her about where she was. The whole two lives thing W was trying to keep going was coming to a crashing end. She couldn't maintain it anymore.

Anyways, I told W again, my phone battery was limited, that if she wanted to talk I was at exit XXX, that that is where I would be. I said a prayer asking that when she got in the car, I would be calm, know what to say, and not over react. I went over talking points of what to say, and just made sure I was ready to talk and wasn't going to be demanding, disrespectful or angry. All things in the past that were characteristic of my negotiating skills.

When she arrived, she got in the car, sat down, I just looked at her and didn't really say anything. I said, so..what's up. I let her explain herself. She told me that first she didn't lie to me about going to houston, that as she was leaving work to head down there, her uncle called and said her Aunt was still in the hospital and that the W didn't need to come visit cause there was nothing for her to do.

She said she decided to go to SA and see OMs new house, that he called her before to come down and hang out. OM and W have been friends for a while at work now. She was one of the first few people she told at work about the seperation. I told her it was totally inapproriate for her to be staying there, I asked if she understood that. She said yes, and said that K had always told her that her hanging out with OM was inappropriate. W admitted to OM filling needs that I wasn't meeting, such as treating her like a gentleman, talking with her, etc.

We talked for a long time, she assured me that nothing happened. I said, you understand my concern? I know about the phone calls, I know that you called him 60 times in April, 30 times in May, I know about the calls to his parents house, I told her about how she used his name as the first reference for the SUV, about the phone call to her phone when she was at our house and then broke down later after that. The one thing she never did was get upset at me spying and snooping. She accused me of invading her privacy, or anything of the reactions that I have read about when a spouse is in a PA. She told me that nothing happened and I do believe it, SF wasn't a need not being met it was other things. She told me that she never thought about OM as the guy she would run away with. She just enjoyed hanging out with him and him treating her nice, treating her how a man should. I understood that, she told me he just kinda filled that role. I said yes, that is exactly how EAs start, that is the definition.

I told her that while she may think that if our M doesn't work out, she will still be in my life, in our circle of friends lives, in their kids lives. I told her that wasn't going to happen, she was wearing sunglasses but I could see her eyes, tears shot down both sides. I told her that I wasn't saying that to pressure her, to make her feel bad, or be mean. That there was just no way I could handle her still being in my life, it would be far too hard and she wasn't gonna get to have the cake and eat it to. It was something that affected her and will mention it later down the line.

She asked later in conversation what I would have done if something had been going on. I said calmly I had a plan already, I had a letter written in advance(plan B) that was on hand. That I was going to send it to her, tell her NC whatsoever. If she had an emergency to contact me with email, no friends contact, that I loved her but to this needed to be done. That to protect myself and my love for here that she needed to really think about what she wanted. That I was willing to work thru this, that many marriages come out of this. She was amazed, but I will mention that in a minute. I jokingly said, NOW, this does not give to a hall pass by any means. She laughed.

We talked about the MC and our sessions we are to start next week. I said, I want to do it, but deep inside I just don't see how you are going to see my changes, how I act, how I treat you, living apart. That how one hour of MC and seeing each other for an hour or so during the week is going to make you think wow he has changed. She asked if we should just do IC, I said maybe, but that I DID want to do MC, that it could be with our pastor or the MC. But I wanted something, and that if we did it ourselves we would use the books and lesson plans, but I wanted someone there to make sure we are on track, like our pastor. Well he really isn't our pastor, he IS a pastor, but he just married us. We don't go to his church regularly.

Finally after about an hour of talk in the car, she said she wanted to go to the lake, and to go get somethign to eat. We headed to north to get something to eat, then stopped off at a few stores to shop for presents for my friends b-day party. I bought her a bikini and we headed back to our house.

While at the house she called K, the lady she is living with. She walked outside to talk. I went to one of the rooms next to where W was and listened. She was talking about what was going on, that she has been down in SA, that the whole trying to sort of work on the marriage but also trying to just have fun and be irresponsible had finally caught up. That her financial irresponsibilites caught up with her two weeks ago, and that now her social irresponsibilites caught up with her this weekend. She started talking about when she asked me what I would have done. She told K exactly what I said, that I was willing to work thru it no matter what, she told K that does was not the old H, old H would have said FU I'm out, she said hearing that she knew that I was definatley not the other person i had been. She also told K about the Plan B letter, she told K, he had a plan, he knew exactly what he was gonna do. She also told her about when I said if this M didn't work that W would not be part of my life. She said that she wants me in her life, that she realized that she needs to work on this because she isn't ready to not have me in her life. She talked about what I said about doing the MC thing and not living together.

We had a pretty good time after all that. I think she needed to really face the stark reality that she needed to get her butt in gear and start being mature about this. That this wasn't kid stuff. I think she saw my commitment not only to changing myself and saving this marriage, but that if it came down to it, I'm out.

I am not going to hold the EA thing over her head, and I think she knows that. I am not going to use that to justify any bad behavior. I don't like the tit for tat thing. But I think I have attempted to set some boundaries and if I have not I will reitterate them clearly.

Not sure we are gonna go from here, but I am glad I got the OM situation addressed and in the open, because it was eating at me sicne I started monitoring the phone logs. Just another day in the up and down rollercaster of marriage. Gotta love it.

BTW: Jack, ya I was in SA. Over near USAA. Thanks for the invite, if I am down there again I may take ya up on it, get some lunch or drinks, my email is [email]gunnydogs@hotmail.com.[/email] Take care

L4,

I'm glad to see that you're taking steps into this situation. I'm at a XR much like you in my life right now - and I'm afraid of bringing up the EA my wife is having; I have seen her own e-mails and things like that, but I'm really worried that bringing them up with just piss her off and throw her farther away from me.

I think its come down to the point where I need to expose things, and I need to tell her that I can't deal with this as her "friend". Asking someone you called your "soulmate" and who you lost your virginity to, not to mention gave every single ounce of your heart is something that I honestly do not believe my heart can physically bare.
I don't really know what to do about the situation, because if she does divorce me; which it appears she has no reluctance towards doing so - I will be heading back to college in 2 months alone - which is 400 miles away. I don't even think its possible to mend a relationship at that distance, let alone one that has spiraled into a divorce of oblivion.

Its really sad that she refuses to try counseling, and that she refuses to see the change in my heart over these things. When she emailed me last, she placed every ounce of blame on our relationship failing on me; she was very vindictive, stating that "Now maybe I appreciate what she went through when I neglected us" or "Now you know how it feels do be doing everything in your heart to save things and having the other person just sit on their [censored] and do nothing"

It saddens me that she says these things, I wanted to do counseling; I tried anti-depressants during our marriage, I did try - but she refuses to believe it.

Life is rough. Good luck in everything man, I will be praying for you.

L4AC, Congratulations....this is great news!!! I think she definately noticed and accepted certain positive changes on your behalf and you seem to have broken through the fog. Lets hope this is the only wake-up call she needs.


Nevertheless, the calculated manner in which she lied to you and everybody else in her life could come back any minute. Lets hope shes not so cold-blooded as to make you believe she is interested in reconcilation while just driving the A further underground. There's a German saying that is appropriate "Trust is good, Control is better". I hope you did not divulge all of your methods of verifying her activities so you can continue to check up on her for the time being.

Although today was definately a major step forward, dont get your hopes up too high that the roller coaster is coming to an end. If it does, great, if it doesn't, you still need enough strength and love to fight another day.
Hang in there, your doing great!!

The way that she wanted to meet you and perform damage control right away, and had an excuse for everything, made me think she is still lying about this situation, and I'd guess you know that.

She probably intended to go to meet OM, and I'm 90% certain this is a PA...think about it, if you were in daily contact with a sexy woman for over a month and she came to visit...and spend the night, would you be able to keep your hands off her (and vice versa). I know, it's a mental picture you didn't want to have, and as a guy, visual can burn in your mind more than others.

Now what? What is her plan for repairing the M and living through withdrawal? You have really met her more than halfway, and it's time for her to step up. Have you talked with her about accountability and how she is going to end contact? Or rather, how she is going to prove to you she has ended contact? How she is going to follow the 4 rules of M?

You are right, I don't know 100%. And I will continue to monitor things. I never set the boundaries with OM, but am going to. I did make it clear that hanging out with him is inappropriate and staying at his house is damn sure not acceptable. I am going to be watchful. The one thing that got me was that she didn't flip out when I told her about knowing so much, that I was snooping. And really, if there was an A, why bother staying. There is no reason. She knows I am ready to pack it in and have a plan in place, why waste time.

But not to worry, while I am happy, I am still mindful of the sich. I still have a few methods for snooping not yet instituted. We'll how it goes. Thanks for playing devils advocate, cause it is needed.