A psychiatrist my niece was working with on her depression before all of this affair stuff happened has had a chance to talk to her on the phone and has diagnosed her as being in a manic episode.

She'd been depressed for a long time and was working with the psychiatrist to work it out and as she began to go into mania she was just even enough to make the doctor believe the depression was under control. He saw no evidence of mania at that time so she stopped seeing him. In stepped OM and as the mania progressed she has connected her elated feelings with this guy and her depression with her husband, neither of which is true.

She is out of state, away from her family, with the OM, and, I fear, headed for a psychotic break. Bi-polar runs in our family so we were all on the lookout for it.... but it is a very hard thing to diagnose until it becomes severe. And now it has.

The doc talked to my niece on the phone after her husband had contacted him and told him everything that was going on. She actually took his call (the doctor) and tried to explain her newfound happiness and spiritual awakening to the doctor. He pointed out where her logic was unconnected and inconsistent, hallmarks of mania. In addition, she isn't sleeping but a couple hours a night (also indicative of mania). He prescribed medications for her and asked her to take them. But she feels so good after being depressed for so long, that she just doesn't want to take them.

Please please please pray that she'll take the medications and we can somehow get her away from OM and get her back home.

My dad was told last night what was going on and he wanted to get on a plane to get his granddaughter and, as far as OM goes, "kick the @%#& out of him." This from a man who rarely uses such language. And he meant it. Even though he's 82 years old I wouldn't stand up against him if he wanted to kick my butt. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Maybe we should just unleash grandpa on OM. He'd never know what hit him!!

Seriously, though. Please pray if you are the praying type.

Thanks,
~ Snow

Hi, Snowbelle.

Has anyone contacted the other man and told him that she is likely in a manic episode, and married, and that for legal reasons, he needs to back off immediately and completely.

That might do the trick.

All the best,
Gimble

Gimble,

OM knows of her condition. But both he and my niece are choosing to believe that all of her depression was caused by her marriage and all of her wonderful elated feelings now are caused by his introduction into her life and her fantastic new journey with God.

My sister had written OM that niece was on the edge and could commit suicide if she crashed into another major depression and realizes what she has done to her family. He didn't answer. He's feeding her a load of crap about mental illness and because she feels so good right now (she had been in a major depression before this) she doesn't want to believe it could be anything else.

The other niece who has been talking with WW niece, unfortulately, is a natural healing type and big spiritual seeker of anything other than Christianity, and she is basically telling WW niece that she shouldn't take such heavy drugs on the word of one man (the doctor.... no, I guess she should take the word of a 20-something cousin who has already been divorced and has borderline personality disorder herself and no psychiatric background whatsoever). And WW niece is going with her cousin's "advice". I will be talking to my other niece again today and ask her if she doesn't think it wise to recommend to WW niece that she at least seek out a second opinion of a psychiatrist in the city where she is staying with OM. But last night this niece basically told me that all of the psychiatrists would conclude mania based on nothing other than the first doc's opinon (because how could it be otherwise since this niece, the one with no medical background whatsoever, knows in her heart that her cousin isn't bipolar). I am so angry with this niece right now.... not the WW one, the other one.

My WW niece is not sleeping much. Other niece says that people who have these deep (non-Christian) spiritual experiences will sometimes be like that. (Oh, no, it can't really be the mania of bi-polar disorder that runs in our family). My sister, who IS bi-polar and has attempted suicide four times, talked with WW niece two weeks ago, listened to her symptoms (that she is not sleeping, etc...) and told WW niece at that time that she was in a manic episode.

I think I believe my sister, who has been there, over my niece, who has not. But unfortunately WW niece won't talk to anyone other than the niece who is apparently unconcerned that her cousin could be in a dangerous situation. She just doesn't get it.

There is absolutely nothing we can do but sit here and pray. It is so very frustrating.

I'm not sure what legal strings we could pull against OM, Gimble. Do you have any ideas? Already talked to the police where she is and because she left of her own will they won't do anything. We don't have an address or anything where she is, just a cell phone number. We could get a PI to track down where they are, but then what would we do? My sister who is bi-polar said that if her husband had tracked her down on one episode where she just got on a bus and disappeared for a week, she wouldn't have gone with him if he found her. She would have insisted she was all right. That is what they do. And because niece has never been hospitalized, and this would be her first episode of mania, nobody will step in. Nobody.

I just hope and pray OM is prepared for what happens when she has a psychotic break or crashes back into a deep depression. WW niece has said that is when she'll truly believe she is bipolar and that her current happiness is due to brain chemistry and not her great new love for God and OM. I'm not betting on it. She's wrestling with an alligator and just doesn't know it yet.

~ Snow

Hi, Snowbelle.

If her PDOC won't step up and legally move to have her hospitalized, I don't know.

I don't know what the legalities are of an 'intervention', and I suspect that such actions, along with forced hospitalization, vary widely state to state.

I hope that she has stopped taking the antidepressants anyway, just in case they contributed to her episode.

I can tell you what I would do, if it was my family member. I would hire a PI, find her, and take most of HER family along to intervene, even if it were pushing the legal envelope. I can only tell you what I would do. I am not recommending it to you.

One thing is for certain, if she is having religious encounters in her current state, then she is already close to if not in a psychotic break, and the level of destructive behavior could land her in serious trouble. Pregnant, jail, dead.

I am sorry that I could not be of more help. These situations are terribly frustrating.

God bless,
Gimble

OK Snow...realize that if you 'quote' me, I'll deny everything! LOL

I work for a major telecommunications company. These companies have the ability to track the general location of their cell phones based on what 'towers' it uses to connect back into their network. They're required to be able to do it for two reasons...CALEA (Law enforcement support) and '911 services' (which allows them to dispatch police and ambulance support if/when she were to dial 911.

So...is this cell phone in your niece's name, or in her H's name? Regardless, I would heartily suggest that he, along with her psychiatrist on the phone, contact the company that they've got the cell service through, and basically uses the diagnosis of the doctor as leverage to get the company to do a location track of her phone. Have the doctor use the right words to convince them that this is critical to her health (psychotic break, suicide, etc...).

If there are issues with that, try this. I thought you mentioned that you have the OM's full name? Try using the internet to do a search on his name, combined with the city he lives in. You'll be surprised at how much info you can get that way. Also...I'm assuming that your niece probably called the OM a lot before all of this came out...or even since. So use the cell phone invoices to find out what numbers she was calling. And do the same kind of online research to find out an address and/or name to associate with those numbers.

Since they were chatting online, take a look at his 'profile' on whatever IM service they were using. He may or may not have one, but again, adding all this information up can get you a bigger picture.

Any ideas on what OM does for a living? What company he works for? Where did he send the emails to WW from....was it from a free service like hotmail or lycos, or was it from a paid service that would either have a companies name attached to it, or his billing info? If the emails were from a company or corporation, try calling that company and simply asking for a direct line to 'so and so'. Don't tell them why, let them assume it's business related.

LOL...just don't ask what I did for a living BEFORE I got into telecommunications.

Thanks for all the tips, Owl, but she's coming home (again). Actually, we did do all but call the phone company to trace her calling. Did all the internet searches on OM, paid for criminal records, the whole shot. Very little was recovered. He uses a first name that isn't really his first name and that made it more difficult.

Anyway, she's supposed to be leaving OMs state and going home. I've been exchanging a few emails with her and she is thoroughly convinced that she is not in a manic state, but that OM has lead her to a true and real relationship with Christ, unlike any other she has known (and contrary to everything she believed growing up and during her 10 years of marriage to a pastor!).

She is returning home, I think, to lay claims to her children. At firt she said she'd stay with a neighbor and my sister and BIL have asked her to stay with them, but last I heard she was insisting on going "home" and hinting that NIL should be the one to leave. Huh?

OM is looking for a job in niece's state and intends to follow her there and make one big happy family I guess. Niece sent a picture of she and OM to her parents, who forwarded it to me. Can you say VOMIT?

NIL has filed for divorce in order to protect the kids and keep them from being taken out of state. He was going to check with attorney on keeping niece out of the family home until it is known whether she is bi-polar or what. This is so harmful to their three little ones. Please pray for them.

At least I have the ear of my niece a little bit. Thing is she wrote me that if she follows through with the divorce it is because the Holy Spirit is leading her to do so, and even if she is wrong, God won't judge her because he loves her. You see what we are up against here? It would be the number one of all time "crazy things that WS's say" if it was so pathetic and downright scary.

I don't think I will post any more on subject of niece here in the hopes that things will begin to turn around and perhaps we can get niece, NIL, or both of them posting here.

Thanks all!

~ Snow

Well, I DO hope that things work out the best way that they possibly can for everone involved. I'll keep the situation in my prayers, and an eye open for your niece or nephew to post here as well. Perhaps if they do so, they'd be interested in what some of the other people who have been through similar issues have learned. Take care friend.

Thanks, Owl! See you around the boards!

~ Snow