Well - we talked tonite. She is dead-set on the idea that the marriage will not work. She refused marital counseling. She says I closed the book when I did not respond to her plea a year and a half ago. She says she begged for 6 years for me to come around (I was/am selfish), and that it ended when I did nothing about a plea a year and a half ago. She will not drop the D-bomb, because it will make her look the bad guy to the kids. She is not interested, however, in any pursuit of romance with me. It seems hopeless. But God told me sometime this spring "another year". So I wait. And continue to beg God to make me change to become that which will complete her.

I guess the positive note is that she is not filing legal work right now.

She says she does not want to date. She is not gone unreasonably, but I suspect she is developing an emotional affair. She has moved far enough on in her mind that to her that is none of my business.

Just needed to talk. Thanks for listening.

Seems like there is still a thread of hope.

one strand. it's getting tight...

She is right. As a WS, there is no hope for a M. WS' are not meant t/b married. Let her know that you realize she is a WS and that is why she is babbling as such. Then leave her be to her babble.

That kind of statement will infuriate and confuse the WS. The WS don't like the BS exposing them. The WS do not like the BS to know their tactics. Most importantly the WS don't like t/b told they are babbling. But they are.

Keep her confused with reverse babble and other tools. Then you keep on working on you so that you give her less and less ammo to throw at you.

take care,
L.

I haven't figured out all the technical shortcuts, so I'll just cut 'n paste from my other post that I think you'll find quite applicable ...

I was in group counseling the other night when one of the participants was so frustrated because his wife won't respond to all the good things he's done in the past 2 months since he's started counseling. The challenge is that they've been married for nearly 20 years, and he's been verbally abusive throughout. How can he possibly expect his wife to automatically respond when there's so much hurtful history? What I told him is the same thing I'll tell you - I, too, was stuck in a very bad marriage (read my earlier posts, and it'll sound quite familiar to your story). Unfortunately, I did the wrong thing and looked for love elsewhere. When I left, my H was distraught. After a little while, he decided he was going to change/improve himself, regardless if I came back or not. So, I watched. I saw these changes. I noted every improvement. I remembered everything he did. Why else would I have come back and go through this painful withdrawal? It's because I realized he's changed. He's becoming the husband that I can be proud of and love again.

My advice to you is this. If you believe your M is worth fighting for and choose to stay, be patient. Read the self-help books that will guide you to be the man that your W will love and be proud of. Trust me, she's watching your every move, and she'll take notice. It does take some time.

Good luck,

W

Orchid - thanks for your insight. I have followed the reverse babble strings some, and i like the methodology. I will brush up on the reverse babble.

Whisper - I have been looking for you!! I need your encouragement. WW told me last night that she absolutely will not go to marriage counseling. She told me I closed the book when I did not respond to a plea for help a year and a half ago. I did not know what to do. I did not understand. I was selfish and did not seek MC at that time. She says it is too late. BUT - we talk a lot now. I take care of the kids and come home from work early so she can follow her theatre passion. I quit travelling with a prestigious job. I have changed so much.

I have read enough Harley that I know that she can come home. I continue to improve myself, and I believe in miracles. I am trying to make deposits as much as possible. Your words help SO MUCH. Thank you.

First of all, I'm glad you believe in miracles, because I, for one, am one of those cases. If you asked me a year ago if I would be back with my H today, I would probably have laughed and said 'not in a million years!' My M was such a far-gone conclusion that I was adament nothing could get us back. The thought that I could ever love my H again was ludicrous. Guess what? I just wrote an email to a good friend and confidant about tonight. I'm copying/pasting what I wrote (as I'm sure she won't mind my sharing) ...

"And, when I flew home, I drove straight to his (my H's) place. We went to a trendy, outdoor mall/restaurant area. We walked and talked until it got dark. He told me about his weekend at the Indy 500 and I told him about my life for the past several months. We laughed, we cried, we stared silently at the fountain, and nothing felt awkward - not even 1 little bit! It was absolutely fantastic. I thought he looked gorgeous, and he made me feel like a million bucks! After I dropped him off, I couldn't help but wonder how I could be this stupid for so long?? We're going to see the Dave Mathews Band on Wednesday night, and I can't wait!"

This is coming from the same person who, only a few months ago, thought her H was repulsive and that a D was the only solution. Yes, miracles do happen.

With that said, I wonder if your W is not filing the D papers NOT b/c she doesn't want to look bad in front of the kids but b/c she wants the best of both worlds? Meaning, the fantasy of an EA and the reality of you being the stable, bread-winning provider for her and her children? I don't mean it to sound harsh, but that's what kept me in limbo for so long. Also, I never could bring myself to file the D b/c I just couldn't let go. While our M was terrible, I did see all these fantastic changes he was making while we were separated. I dreaded the thought that I'd always regret not giving our M one more chance, knowing he has and is willing to change.

So, I'm not sure if you're at this point, but Plan B may make sense in your future. My H never read much of what Dr. Harley wrote; he simply did what he needed to do to survive. So, once I announced I was going to file for a D, he started to move on without me. That's when the reality boot kicked me in the rear, and, boy, did it hurt!!!

I wish I could give you better advice, as I'm still wading through this myself. But, if my story can offer you some hope, then please keep writing me. I can probably answer a lot of questions you're wondering about your W. One thing I've learned this past year in dealing with my own marital problems is that people aren't so different - we may live in different places or experience things at different times, but the circumstances and how we respond to them rarely change.

Keep the faith and keep posting,

Whisper

Hey,

How are you doing, FAR?

Yes - she does not want to look bad to the kids. She sees the changes. She enjoys the changes. She tells me she does not want to date others, but the hotmail account seems suspicious. I suspect something.

I really need to find a babysitter and get W out on some dates!!

Yes - plan B seems inevitable. God told me this spring another year - which seems like a resolution by next April or May. Boy, am I tired, though.
I am planning on setting up a visit (solo) with Steve, and will invite her in on it when I have a time.

Whisper - I will need to lean on you!

A co-worker of hers who is in need lives in our spare room. W gets a lot of emotional needs met by that very close friendship. Can not kick the girl out - might have to boot both of them.

I have my ups and downs. Rest really helps when I am feeling hopeless. And my MB community! Thank you all! You have saved my life, and possibly my marriage!

FaR,

Go to your doctor and see if you need some meds or take a homeopathic remedy. You need to get ahold of yourself because it is critical maintain a sound mind. The WS is not capable of having a sound mind. Remember that if you have children.

Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. If she doubts your changes, babble back that you doubt hers even more so.

She may be leaning on the roommate in an attempt to get her fix of getting her needs met. The WS wants to see the BS suffer, your W does not so you have to be able to tell which one she is at any given time and learn to react accordingly.

Plan A your W and plan B the WS. Can you do this?

L.

FAR
I do not wish to be controversial here but I see far too much apology in your posts. Your W was IN NO WAY forced to have an affair because of anything you did or did not do unless you held a gun to her head and forced her into intimacy with OM.

You were less than the spouse you could have been prior to the A ? Join the friggin' club !

Repent of that behaviour, change it and move on.

Your W's afair is HER choice, HER sin, HER responsibility.

KY dealt with ACTIVE abuse prior to her A yet still took public ownership of her affair which MASSIVELY enabled their recovery. That released ST (her man) to repent of his pre-A husbandry and work on his healing of the affair. Both FWS and FBS are now renewed people but the affair was KYs choice and responsibility. ST could have cowered in self pity and guilt too but DIDN'T.

For you to take too much responsibility is conflict avoidance IMO.

Will you apologetically wait for crumbs from her table in gratitude for her not divorcing you ?

Does she recognise that her relationship with OM was an AFFAIR even if they did not have sex ?

Glad to see you talking with Steve. Ignore me and listen to him !

All blessings !

Bob - she knows it was an affair. She has known and admitted that all along. She said she would not have done it if she did not think our relationship was over. She says she has mourned and burried our relationship - before the affair, that it is over and never will be again, and consistenly acts like she believes it. She went looking for the affair only after the aforementioned mourning and burrying. (of course - she has also said that she wishes it would work, and tells me she loves me - of her own volition - every day)

She truly believes it is over. Her affair has been over since December. I am trying to deposit enough units that this different woman will fall in love with me.

Thanks, Bob, for your continued support.

"Whisper - I will need to lean on you!"

I, like so many others on MB, am here to support you. That, you can ALWAYS count on, my friend!!

Hey there FAR, you wrote:



That change will only happen, if YOU DO IT, not expecting some divine intervention....and will only be permanent change if you do it FOR YOU.

Yes, you could stand to be less selfish, think of others more...but in your posts it sounds like you are only going to make these changes to get her back, and then what?

Start going to IC, start to make the changes you want to make, FOR YOU. Stop asking HER to make all the changes before you are willing to. I'm willing to bet she is not seeing anything new in you, because you truly don't WANT to change. The consequence of this behavior is losing your W, if not from an A, she would have left another way... Sorry, not going to cut you any slack...blame away, you had a part to play in your M, NOT her choice to have an A though. So what are YOU going to do about it? Whine that SHE won't go to counseling, or give you a chance? Come on! Make some REAL changes in your life!!!

Still here - thanks for the words. I need it. Just found out today of ANOTHER affair.

The cut is growing deeper.

I have posted another about today's event - called affair confirmed or something like that.

Wow, what a day.