Ok All, it's been about 2 weeks since my H started revealing his feelings for another married woman. Just happens to be his best friend's wife (am biting my tongue right now).

They have told us that they have feelings for each other and seem incapable of stopping themselves. They try to rationalize to both of us married betrayed spouses that they have to 'pursue their feelings for each other to find out if it is real'. This is killing me to write this. I am so hurt and shocked. This has all happened so suddenly.

H has decided to move out (has only taken a backpack and supplies so far) - and going to find a place for the summer.

He was supposed to be 'concentrating on himself' without contact to anyone else for 2 weeks.

One thing he has managed to stick to is being more honest with me. He just told me that he and the OW just slept together last night, and knew that it would could both of us spouses pain, but felt that it 'was worth it' (again, in the pursuit of 'true love'). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm so scared and don't know what to do with myself.

How do I respond to this?! H is/was supposed to come over tomorrow evening and watch a movie with me and talk. He says he'll still come over if I want him to, and we can talk about this.

What do I do? Should I be cutting off contact? Should I be listening to him while he wants to talk to me?

HELP!! I'm so confused and hurt right now!

Oh, and I meant to say that he's scheduled to start counseling (IC = individual counseling?) this coming Thursday, 06/02. And, the following Monday we're supposed to schedule a marriage counselor. Should we even bother?! I really wanted to see if we could work on this, but I'm not so sure I can do anything right now...

Please help!

Most MC will at the very least say that counseling is not worthwhile if both partners are not motivated to save their marriage.

Describe to us how you found your MC. Normally you'd have to shop around, possibly quite a bit, before you found someone you could expect to help you.

Describe as best you can what your H would say about his gripes with your M.

This isn't very MB of me, but I think your H will interpret your kindness and friendliness after his admission to be tacit permission to continue doing it.

Describe the conversation more, the one where he told you he'd slept with that ho.

GC

Ok. Some new developments. H just e-mailed me and said that the OW and her H (and him? - he was at least there) were talking after her fling with my WH, and they were finally talking about needs with each other that hadn't been met, and trying to work some things out. Quote from my H, "They are actually discussing, for the first time ever, the needs that each of them has that the other person has never met. It is quite beautiful because I see that they are in love and are making it work."

I see some swaying between their A and their marriages - at least the OW is making an attempt to restore her M, it seems.

Yesterday I felt so lost and hopeless. Today I see a little glimmer of hope...

My H has expressed thankfullness for not shutting him out yet. He has said that he deserves to suffer, and he's ok with that.

I still don't know if that means he wants to come back and work on our M, yet. Still in limbo on that one.

We haven't actually found a MC yet. And I was wondering if it should even be a consideration at this point. Well, we have a few days before we're even planning on making any phone calls - guess we'll see how it goes... and see what happens when we get a chance to talk.

I was afraid that upon seeing him, I would only be able to cry and think, "How could you do this to me?!". I'm just looking for some pointers in how to handle myself when he comes over.

Does your H understand the concept of fidelity in a marriage? Does he believe in fidelity? Or does he believe that committment is contingent upon his current feelings?

I think that he believes in fidelity in theory, but has a hard time applying it. I think that he wishes to be faithful, but became ensnared in this EA that quickly turned into a PA. It doesn't help that his mother has had an A with a married man for the past 18 years or so. He hasn't had the best role model. I think she gave him the advice that she had no regrets for following her heart. So, he's following her recent advice to him on this. Although, before all this (ok, before he decided to start being truthful with me), he always displayed disgust in her affair. I don't think he really wants an affair - I think he'd rather have a long term relationship, but he wants 'true love'. Does any of that make sense?

I'm not trying to justify what he's doing. I'm still in the process of trying to understand what's going on with him myself, since he just recently revealed all this to me.

And what exactly does "true love" mean to him? Is this a "feeling" like you would see in a chick flick on A&E or like teenage girls have?

Yeah, at this stage, I'm thinking it's the infatuation-type thing. Especially with this EA. He said that he didn't think he'd have feelings like that for someone, and it caught him off guard.

I've heard differently from him before this EA - or, I wouldn't have married him in the first place. I'm just not sure who this guy is right now. Hard telling what he's thinking.

SS, I guess what I am getting at is does he feel he is entitled to abandon you when he has a "feeling" of love for someone else? He almost seems proud of his little affair and doesn't seem to understand that an affair is WRONG, hence his lack of remorse. Does he know right from wrong? Does he view an affair as wrong?

Yes, he's remorseful. Yes, he knows it's not right. He's sorry for doing this to me - *but*, he felt the need to follow his heart in this 'unique' situation.

Does this attitude not concern you somewhat, SS? He justifies wrongdoing by saying he had a "feeling." By "his heart," he means his "feelings." And feelings change from day to day, moment to moment. Does he not have control over his feelings to the degree that he would sacrifice his principles?

Yes, of course it concerns me. But is that justfication to just end our marriage? It might be, but I'm not sure that he and I have thoroughly discussed why this is happening.

See, SS, love is a choice, it is a committment. It is not a "feeling." Feelings come and go and change daily. IF his committment to you is based on a "feeling," then I would say that you have much greater problems than an affair.

He seems to feel entitled and fully justified to act on every feeling without regard for the horrible destruction it might cause. If I am reading this right, then your safety and security, in a marriage to him, would always be in limbo because it is only contingent upon his ever changing feeling of the moment.

This is something I would explore vigorously in counseling and resolve before you ever agree to take him back. Otherwise, you could be looking at repeat performances for years to come. Except in the future it could be with 3 little kids. What a nightmare that would be!

Agreed. That is part of the reason he's going to individual counseling. He knows there's something wrong with himself, and he wants to change. He's just not sure what he wants right now. Some sort of mid-life crisis, or something (although he's a little young for that - he is in the middle of getting his Ph.D, though). I am hoping to address these things with a counselor.

I'm just so confused right now because yesterday (as in a couple of weeks ago), I thought that we were in a happy marriage (he always treated me well, we took care of each other (minus some obviously important emotional needs), would tell me I was beautiful, and that he loved me), and today, he's lost and confused, and doesn't know what he wants out of life for himself. I really just want some answers, and to be able to figure out together if this is really over...

Dear Sweet~~

I read your previous posts, and this has me completely changing what I was going to say to you ....

1. your H confessed to a ONS which happened a year ago while traveling

2. your H had oral sex with a co-worker

3. your H views porn frequently

4. your H has phone sex with strangers he's met in a chat room

..... and this is just the stuff you know about

and now .... your H has found what he thinks might be (gag) 'true love' with his best friend's wife.

This may very well be a life-style choice for you H.

When the WS's romantic affair is an isolated aberrant event, atypical for a person's character ... I say fight-fight-fight for the marriage .... if that's your goal. But it appears that may not be the case in your sad situation.

This history of sexual exploration may indicate what your H considers is his entitlement. His upbringing may have taught him that lesson. He is entitled to seek his pleasures as he sees fit.

If this is the case, and only you can say if it is true or not, then I would say that your immediate need is to protect yourself from his chosen lifestyle.

Have you been tested for STDs? Have you ever had an abnormal pap test?

Marriage counseling won't work while your WH is still pursuing his affair partner. MC is a waste of time and $$$ until both parties desire to be in the marriage. MC is to pick up the tools to make the M better.

My H had his affair with his best friend's wife too. The affair lasted about 2 years before it was discovered. This was many years ago, and we are happily recovered for 9 years. Here's what I realized about myself ....

I could not be married to a man with so low a character as to take his friend's wife to bed and a character so low he could eat dinner at his friend's house as their guest all the while in the middle of an affair.

This was NOT a man I could admire, respect, trust or love.

Our M was over until my H apologized in person to his former friend after stopping the affair cold turkey.

I know myself. I need to experience respect and trust in my marriage, not just desire and love, but respect too. When I respect a man ... I love him more deeply and more passionately than if I don't respect him as a person. It's HUGE for me.

Are you like this too?

I think that you should NOT Plan A your husband unless you have been a very lousy wife for 4 years. (which I doubt)

Plan A'ing a spouse who has a history of previous multiple episodes of cheating ... is generally perceived by the cheating spouse as a license to cheat more !!!

I would advise you to seek legal advice to guard your financial holdings ... and I would proceed rather quickly to Plan B ... which may take about 2-3 weeks to set up.

I do NOT see your situation as hopeless ... but I do see it requires a different more hard-assed approach. A sort of 'zero tolerance' level of acceptance.

The message you need to send to your WH is this:

I respect myself
I tolerate no further infidelity
I distance myself from this hurt
I am ready to move on until you become a faithful spouse

anywho .... this situation calls for the BS to talk with action not with words....

definitive
no-nonsense
unambiguous
response with action

not words

Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I knew this wasn't a normal affair, but I wasn't aware this was a way of life with him, SS. I fully agree with Pep, this is not something that can be addressed with Marriage Builders principles because it is not a marital problem, but a character problem. He does not know right from wrong and doesn't believe in fidelity. That is just the way he is, SS, and you can't change him.

Don't get me wrong, I believe people can change if they want to, but he would have no reason to change. He seems perfectly happy with himself as he is and should be accepted as he is, SS. It would be unrealistic to expect him to change.

Thanks, Pep and Melody. You words are not easy to hear, but I think that's what I needed. I so wanted to believe there was something to save here. I know that that is not a possibility until he makes an effort. Thanks for your support. I think I'll have to start making some moves to separate myself from this mess.

Sweet~~~

it gives me no pleasure to write what I did....

and there is always hope that your H may wake up and find he's about to lose the best thing in his life ... a faithful loving wife .... but until that day .... protect yourself.

Put a very HIGH price on yourself Sweet .... and that's what he will see.... a woman who values herself highly.

If you put a bargain basement value on yourself ... that too is the way he will value you. As disposable or easily replaced.

Best of luck

Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hey All,

Just wanted to give you an update. Told H that we shouldn't see each other and that it probably wasn't a good idea to see a counselor right now. He needs to work on himself, and he's free to follow his desires. If he decides he wants a marriage, I'd be willing to work with him on that, but I couldn't be in a marriage and accept infidelity. I'm protecting myself.

The OW has said she wants to go back to her marriage now and does not want to see my H anymore.

H still doesn't know what he wants. But is going to start individual counseling on Thursday (06/02).

I at least feel better sticking up for myself and carrying on with my life.

Wish it was better news, but I can live with this.

Thank you all for helping me make some better decisions. I do feel a little better about that.

- SSJ