Help! I am new to the board but have been lurking for a while gleaning courage and support. Can anyone recommend a Plan A protocol? I have been trying hard but can't seem to generate a response from WH. Some history - DDay (1st A) August 2004 (an acquaintance/neighbor) - DDay (2nd A) March 2005 (a coworker) - found a secret cell phone used by 1st A and WH to contact each other March 2005 - WH reports no further contact with either A except work related with 2nd A - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. I have been leaving notes, cards, making dinner, not discussing As, trying hard to negotiate, spying less, etc. MC since late March. WH has done nothing to suggest any interest in maintaining a relationship - reports he is "numb" and didn't even acknowledge our recent anniversary or the card I gave him! Should I give up hope? Try harder on Plan A? Any ideas? Thanks!

Print out the EN questionnaire and both of you fill them out. You'll get a better idea of what needs to concentrate on. Work on the top 3. Common ENs for guys is SF, Admiration, and Affection.

Stungalong, welcome to these boards! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Here is a thread you will find helpful (just click on the link):

Plan A tips and musings

I’ve also bumped it for you to the top of the first page.

Blessings,
Suzet

stung, why are you "spying less" if you suspect he is still having affairs but is lying about them? Wouldn't that be an indicator to spy MORE and find out if the affair is still ongoing?

Have you exposed his affair? Is the OW married?

Also, there really isn't much hope of recovery if he is still working with the OW since he can't withdraw if he sees her every day. Will he change jobs?

It sounds to me like you need a completely new strategy. Instead of concentrating on being "nice" to him, why not concentrate on doing things to bust up the affair, ie: exposure, etc?

"Work related" contact is still contact, stung. This probably means he is still in the affair. You will be dealing with this mess for years on end until he truly ends contact. The reason he is still so withdrawn frm you is because he is still in contact and cannot withdraw from her until contact ends. This is why Harley is adamant that all contact ends; recovery is impossible without it.

any children..

what does he SAY about the affairs...
what were his "reasons"

how much does he SAY he values fidelity...

why did he agree to no contact...(even though he claims only work contact)

did you expose
did he agree to counseling...

any children
what are their ages

is he clinically depressed..

ARK

Once a BS knows for certain that their S is having an affair, whether through proof or admittnace on behalf of the WS, I don't think that the BS needs to continue following every move of the BS to prove that the A continues. It is not only essential, but much less stressful and much safer for the BS to assume that the affair and/or contact continues. It is up to the WS to prove that the A is over and there is no contact.

Instead of tracking the cheater, the BS should concentrate on repairing the damage done to themselves and their family. A good Plan A entails exposure of the A to close friends and family members that will be your support group while you try to salvage your marriage. You also have a responsibility to tell the OP's spouse should they also be married. Plan A is not for wimps: a BS should visit a psychiatrist to see if they need AD therapy as well as a pro-marriage psychologist. The main focus of Plan A is for the BS to work on self-healing and self-improvement: on the one hand creating an attractive option to the A and on the other hand robbing the A of its secrecy and glamor and making its continuance uncomfortable.

You've got your work cut out for you. Despite suffering the worst possible betrayal that can happen to a human being, it is up to the damaged spouse to make the first strenuous efforts to save the marriage. The WS is actually the weak link and will follow the path of least resistance.

Thanks for your reply, stillhere.

"Common ENs for guys is SF, Admiration, and Affection."

I am ready and willing, but he isn't. From me anyway. So far, all overtures have been met with a resounding thud. I am willing to bet that those three ENs are at the top of the OW's "to do" list however!

Suzet -- Thank you for your reply and the thread! Stung

Thanks ML!

"stung, why are you "spying less" if you suspect he is still having affairs but is lying about them? Wouldn't that be an indicator to spy MORE and find out if the affair is still ongoing?"


I am desperate to spy more but (1) have run out of techniques (he hides his cell and has stopped using email) and (2) am afraid of the dreaded LB-ing!


"Have you exposed his affair? Is the OW married?"


I called the OW (who, regretfully, is young and single) and rather graciously told her I wanted to work on my marriage and would appreciate it if she would stop seeing him. She told me she "respected that." I have since found evidence that she is still contacting him. I also told two of his closest siblings, who have been kind to me but loyal to him. Should I tell her coworkers? Or is that too much of a LB at this point?


"Also, there really isn't much hope of recovery if he is still working with the OW since he can't withdraw if he sees her every day. Will he change jobs?"


I have tried to make a point of this, but he won't even change his shift (which is quite possible given his seniority) to avoid contact with her!


"It sounds to me like you need a completely new strategy. Instead of concentrating on being "nice" to him, why not concentrate on doing things to bust up the affair, ie: exposure, etc?"


Wouldn't that be LB-ing ?

It appears that he depends upon contact with the OW to keep from falling apart; that is why he continued to maintain contact with the 1st A despite disclosure. I'm cooked. I guess I'm just wondering how much more Plan A should occur before it's time to move on to Plan B.

Thanks Ark!

"any children.."

One precious little DD.

"what does he SAY about the affairs...
what were his "reasons""

Since the outset, he has said he "doesn't know."

"how much does he SAY he values fidelity..."

He doesn't say, although seems to have some regret at being what he describes as "weak."


"why did he agree to no contact...(even though he claims only work contact)"

He didn't really agree to NC, just says that they have NC other than that which is necessary because of work.

"did you expose
did he agree to counseling..."

I spoke to the OW and two of his siblings. Is that enough? We have been in MC since late March.

"any children, what are their ages"

A beautiful, precious little girl, 3


"is he clinically depressed.."

Possibly. He has been going to IC for 2+ years. I know I am!

"Once a BS knows for certain that their S is having an affair, whether through proof or admittnace on behalf of the WS, I don't think that the BS needs to continue following every move of the BS to prove that the A continues. It is not only essential, but much less stressful and much safer for the BS to assume that the affair and/or contact continues. It is up to the WS to prove that the A is over and there is no contact."

This makes great sense. Because of his tremendous betrayal, however, part of me would like to move on, and it would be so much easier if I could prove the A was ongoing.

"Instead of tracking the cheater, the BS should concentrate on repairing the damage done to themselves and their family. A good Plan A entails exposure of the A to close friends and family members that will be your support group while you try to salvage your marriage. You also have a responsibility to tell the OP's spouse should they also be married. Plan A is not for wimps: a BS should visit a psychiatrist to see if they need AD therapy as well as a pro-marriage psychologist. The main focus of Plan A is for the BS to work on self-healing and self-improvement: on the one hand creating an attractive option to the A and on the other hand robbing the A of its secrecy and glamor and making its continuance uncomfortable."

This is also good sense! Does this mean I can disclose the A to others (i.e. their co-workers) without fear of LB consequences?

"You've got your work cut out for you. Despite suffering the worst possible betrayal that can happen to a human being, it is up to the damaged spouse to make the first strenuous efforts to save the marriage. The WS is actually the weak link and will follow the path of least resistance."

This is great advice! I will move from being nice to WH to taking care of myself (and our DD)!

I think exposure to people you trust and that will be your support group is important. Forget about talking to the OW, that will just feed fuel to the fire. Certainly exposing to his family is good if they have respect for marriage, but don't count on them to be your support group. What about your own family and close, trusted friends that would be critical of WH's behavior and look out for your and your daughter's interests? This is a hell of a time for the two of you, you need a strong support group. I'm not an expert, but I think that exposure with hurtful or vindictive motives won't be productive. You don't need to broadcast it on the evening news, but certainly the people that are most important in your lives should know.

Again, I'm not an expert. At this point my WH seems only to regret getting busted and loosing his golden image rather than feeling remorse for his actual deeds. Despite this, I think that exposure might have ended the PA... it obviously continues though as an EA.

Thanks Lost. I have told one close friend and my sister, who have been very supportive. I discovered today that the OW's mother works in the same place that I do; and I am considering telling her. My WH clearly isn't going to end contact with the OW, particularly since he works with her, so perhaps telling her mother will have some effect on her future conduct. It may be a big LB however. Yikes.

Stung, I would suggest that you keep spying to see if he is, in fact, still cheating. You need to know if he is in the affair, so don't hesitate to snoop as much as you can.


I don't think he is really serious about ending the affair then. See, the least he can do to make up for what he has done is end all contact. Otherwise, he will never withdraw from the affair. This is a boundary that I would suggest never relaxing, stung. Harley is ADAMANT about ending contact and suggests even moving across the country if need be. So, I would renegotiate this and explain to him this is a boundary that you must adhere to. Otherwise, be prepared to suffer a death of a thousand cuts in a marriage that will never enter recovery.



No. Exposure is the foundation of Plan A. Plan A does not mean being "nice" at any and all costs, it's purpose is to break up the affair.

Stung, it is ok to spy, just try and be as careful as you can so he doesn't know. Not because it's a "lovebuster" [it's not] but because he will just cover his tracks better. Just remember, no one has the right to the privacy to destroy you behind your back. You would be crazy to "trust" an untrustworthy person, so do not afford him the same level of trust you would someone else. You must, instead, PROTECT yourself from him.

Also, who is the OW? Is she married? Live with her parents? Who is she? Is your H her supervisor?

The OW is a young, single co-worker. Has a dull sounding voice. My S is not her supervisor. She lives in an apartment in town, several doors down from her mother. I'm struggling with whether or not I should tell her mother, who works in the same place I do . . .

Stung, do you think the affair is still ongoing?

regretfully, yes. largely because he is making NO effort to reconcile (other than attending MC, but I believe he is motivated only by fear of public opinion) nor is he remorseful. Ugggh. AND he is hiding his cell phone (used to keep it in the charger in the house).