Well, Octobergirl, I'm not surprised at all. Your WH, like most of them, is not thinking at all about his daughters. He thinks because he is addicted to the homewrecker, that your daughters will love her too. Yuck!

I can tell you from my experience that your daughters' reaction is healthy and normal. Their family has been destroyed. Of course they are devastated.

You know that my WH's OW completely abandoned her 12 year old daughter to live with my WH. She still claims there is nothing more important in the world to her than her daughter, who she hardly ever sees. Thank God the little girl's father is as solid as a rock. He never bad mouths his wife. The little girl was furious with her mom, and in tears all of the time.

Now (after 2 years), she has adjusted just fine. She is happy again, and continuing on with her teen years. She has never met my husband, and doesn't care to. She lets her mom know that she has no interest in hearing anything about her affair.

Your girls will work this out too.

OG,

I am not sure if I can give you any good advice, but I can tell you that this type of blows are something heart wrenching to deal with as a kid or young teen.

When I was 13 me and my brother were playing together when my father decided to call us in to his office to talk. He would sometimes call us in to tell us he needed us to do chores or something, pretend it was very bad news, then laugh at us for being somber.
This time however his joke seemed to be going a bit too far... turns out it wasn't a joke at all.
He sat there and very matter of fact, like it was the most natural thing in the world, he told us he and my mother were getting a divorce.
My little brother was just 7 at the time, so he was trying to understand the whole concept and didn't quite get that, if they divorced, the family life as we knew it, would be obliterated.
I went into a full fury mode. How could he even fanthom on telling us such a thing by pretending he was joking AND without my mother being there?
When I asked him why, how and when, he wouldn't answer. He just kept saying "It isn't such a big deal!".
I got even madder, told him for what all I cared he wasn't my father and that I'd make this divorce so difficult he'd wish he had never said such careless hurtful words.

He tried to laugh at me, but I guess he had never seen me that angry in his entire life. I left and locked myself in my room and cried a river. I could hear my father outside trying to convince my brother that I was just exagerating, so I opened my door and screamed at him telling him to not dare minimize the meaning of his words. Then went back to my room.

30 minutes later my mom returned from grocery shopping. She had NO idea that my dad was even planning remotely to tell us something like that.
Of course she was FURIOUS! They argued all night long that day. My mom kept saying "How could you do this to them??? Have you no common sense?".
Of course he kept trying to say that sooner or later they'd find out, that it wasn't such a big deal, that we were just being melodramatic.

After that day things were awful. My mom packed her bags and left me and my bother with my father and she went to a friend's house. They'd alternate living in the house for a while.
I didn't speak one word to my father, and I was angry at my mom for leaving us with him. I understood she was destroyed though, so I didn't let it show.

My father wanted me to act as the go-between, and I hated him even more for it, but I did it for my mother and my brother untill I explained to my mom that I couldn't bear doing it and to please make it stop.

She did it, inmediately. Somehow things worked out for them in the end. On the meanwhile I found out my father was having an affair with some bimbo, and he was terribly abusive to my mom and us while he was still in the fog. But I let my mom lean on me and I protected her.

It all is a blur now. But it was the worst winter of my chilhood. Christmas and New Years depressed me incredibly for years to come. I was so busy keeping my brother and mother afloat for months that I had to repeat a school year. After it all was done I went into an alcoholic binge and I really have no recollection of what happened between my 14 and 15th birthday.

To this day I have never regained the respect I used to have for my father, even when my mother has forgiven him completely.

All I can say OG is that your girls need to be soothed and kept as stable as possible. Your STBXWH had no right to do what he did, and I understand your feelings fully.

(((((((((OG)))))))))

Edit:
Let me add that after I turned 15 things started to get better. I went through high school with no abuse of alcohol or drugs whatsoever. I decided to stop drinking on my own, gets tiring after a while.
My family became stable again and I finished high school and started college.
Ultimately I moved to the states to be with my FWH and I just graduated summa cum laude this spring.

As long as you give your unconditional love to your girls OG they'll survive. I know the love of my mother always helped pull through.

TA,

Thanks for posting again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />You remind me of my dear WH in that respect.I used to implore him to leave me alone for certain periods of time and not e-mail me or try to speak with me on the phone because I was having a very hard time with many things.He did so anyway.Just so HE could make his point.Isn't this what might be deemed "not listening" to their spouse? "I'm going to do what I want because it suits ME".

No my WH isn't supposed to have homewrecker around when he sees his kids,ESPECIALLY now nor would I have other men going along with us on trips or out to dinner.I said nothing of not dating even though I cannot even think that far ahead and don't want to and I don't even care that homewrecker is still in the picture.It's about introducing these people to the kids.They need to be with their parents but they do not need to be with OP.Homewrecker is a whole different story.She helped break up our marriage and our family.I'm sorry but anyone that suggests that this person should be near my kids and play nice just because Dad is having a grand time in his adulterous relationship with her,is not someone I would agree with.Review what I said TA.They are not lofty goals but ones in which I think were very appropriate and protected our children from unnecessary added pain during this time.

We HAVE spoken,many times and most of all of last year working out specifics.What we agreed upon was not a surprise to anyone.So there is really no reason to re-communicate all that again now unless WH tries to change these agreements.Like last night.Unelss you have read my entire story,you don't understand that all of what you mentioned in this most recent lengthy post of yours has been gone over already.I said before,you don't know me and most likely don't know my whole story or followed along with me.You can claim anything you want but's it's false witness.Whatever.I asked you calmly to stay away and now I will not read your responses nor post to you again.

Hi AD,

I sure opened a can of worms this morning.I wanted to get back to you about your situation and I have to reply to the folks that posted to me and then get to work.

Anyway,thanks for the links.I will have more time tomorrow to review them.I am a child of D and so I know first hand what that is like.My WH always used to tell me the kids would be alright.In fact that is precisely what he said he told himself when he crossed the line into adultery and cheated.

Not a day goes by where I don't wish I had loving,committed parents in a healthy marriage as part of my life.All I have are the memeories of the pain,alcohol and the shouting matches,etc.I SO wanted something different for my kids.

I know I cannot *fully shield my kids but I did a pretty good job of it for the past 1.5 years now.I fear the worst is yet to come though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for dropping by.Hope you are ok today.

O

Hi GC,

Yes,what you said is what I am thinking too and always thought would happen.The passage of time for my STBXWH is what he hopes will mend fences here but what he is essentially asking us to accept and live with is still the same.That for me has not changed and just because 20+ months have passed doesn't mean my morals or values and beliefs have changed.It's just as wrong now as it was then.sigh...I know the drill as do we all.I will not accept that which is unacceptable to me,ever.Part of the reason I would never have an A.It's just wrong and that's all it has to be.

I hope you are doing well.I need to get updated on your thread.Maybe I can do that this weekend.HE will have the girls.

O

Mimi,

We have not seen eye to eye in the past but I don't hold anything against you for your different opinions.On the contrary I do not expect for everyone to agree with me here.But the difference I see in TA's posts are that he appears to be coming in so late in my story that he does not acknowledge or realize that much of what he is feeling and saying to me regarding my post has already been dealt with over and over.I have made decisions in my past that I felt were in the best interests of my kids and myself after being dealt the Infidelity and now D.But his posts come across as being more supportive of my WH,almost like he knew who he was in a way.He did call him a jerk so I feel that there is a spark of rememberance as to who is at fault here but I don't appreciate the way he is trying to convey his messages much of what I don't agree with.

I don't know how many times I have to say I am not bitter or angry anymore in general.This latest event has made me mad,sure, but before that things were rather stable.We were living our lives as best we could.

TA might be being "real" but from the days he first came here and people questioned his motives for being on this site,I found him to be rather brusk,foul mouthed and abrasive to this kind of board.I sense a lot of anger still in his post but I do not follow his story anymore.

I love to have debates but I just feel his contributions aren't helping me so I politely asked him not to respond.

I am glad you are recovering and I know you see things a different way,maybe having that recovery makes it easier for you to post the way you do but not all of us were as fortunate.Thanks for your opinion.

O

Hi Miker,

Well,I know it's always sad when our children have to deal with this but it makes me especially upset when it's not necessary.If my WH wants to go off and boink some homewrecker,fine.Just leave us out of your(his) slimey new life and leave us alone.And,don't bring slime home to our children.I would not expect my WH to introduce porn or drugs to my/our children and I don't expect him to with an immoral woman who helped wrecked our family as we knew it.GAG.Why don't some people understand this concept? It is truly interesting.If we all agree,or most agree,that cheating is wrong,what makes bringing the OP home to meet the kiddies right??

Anyway,I can see more disgust and confusion across my girls faces.It's so sad.It's almost like they are realizing even more,for this latest issue,how he is acting and why.It's sickening to watch them come to this realization.Almost like a slow motion accident.

Thanks for your support,as always.And no hitman.If I was going to go over the edge,I would do the deed myself for the satisfaction. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

O

O, you said:




What do you mean by this?

The reason I ask this is because even though I am in Recovery I still relate to alot to what you are going through.

My children have suffered because of my H's infidelity. I continue to suffer because of my H's infidelity.

Hi Miss Priss,

I will have to think about the letter writing and broach the subject with my girls.I guess the reason they haven't done so yet or anything else is because my WH didn't discuss HW with them,as he shouldn't have,and we didn't talk about Dad.I never bad mouth him,EVER,in front of the kids.In fact I just don't talk about him at all expect to say something like,"Is Daddy almost here to pick you up?"

It's now like a completely separate thing in their lives: to spend parenting time with WH and I am not a part of it.As I should not be.It's his time with them and I never interfere.

I'm sorry your DD and kids have to go through this too.This subject comes up at least once a week I think.I guess I was not expecting it so soon after our agreement.But I'm not that surprised either.Thanks for your post.It helped.

O

Mimi,

Please don't take this the wrong way.It's not meant to offend you in any way.I know you still are coping as we all are.It's just that some of your posts have come across to me as....Let me put it a different way.I understand that you value the principles here.Most do.But sometimes when I read your responses to people,it's almost like we are not doing enough or following the plans precisely and that's why we failed in our marriage.

I am not going to name names or threads but I have read a few enough to think that it's just the way you see things.I may be way off course in how you see it but that's just my impression,that's all.It's like if so and so only did plan A longer she would be recovered.So when you suggest that TA has more than his share of pertinent info to listen to,I just don't agree.I have been posting a long time now and have received many responses too so I do know when someone is being helpful to me or just doesn't understand my decisions and suggests that I am doing it all wrong.The prime example is choosing not to be part of the triangle anymore and that I do not want my STBXWH in my life,anymore,at all.

Divorce is going to make us leaglly and permanently separated but it's no different than what WH did to us and how we coped.He chose to live in another country and 7.5 hours away near homewrecker instead of being near his children and family.I will not take blame for that choice and his decision to be a part time Dad which he said he was ok with.Do you see? TA is essentially telling me I am wrong for not talking to or being a partner with him in this life I lead now.He suggests I will be one of "those" women and all other kinds of nonsense.I just don't agree with his line of thinking.

Mimi,you do help so many here.Don't let what I feel sway you from that.Its not personal in any way.Just an observation.We are not clones of one another right? We all approach issues and problems differently and have different beliefs.

O

O:

Thanks for clarifying for me what you meant by your post.

I am sad for you and your children.

I do HATE affairs/infidelity and its destructiveness.

Regardless of how it may come across to you at times, I really think we all are doing the very best we can awful, tragic life experiences....

Thank God we have this SUPPORT GROUP!!

Hi B,

Gosh.It's been so long since I have posted to you! What is going on with you these days????

I do remember your neighbors' DD.I am glad to hear that she is doing well.See,that's the road I thought we were on too and we would be on if my WH doesn't try to incorporate this HW into their lives.We were actually starting to feel like we could do this and be well.My youngest even said this is our GIRLS home.It's a girlie home! But then he has to open his mouth and out comes this selfish conversation and that's it.He succeeded in hurting us all over again.Is it ever going to stop with this man?!

What I am gearing up to B is what your friends DD does.Being strong and decisive about not accepting bad behavior in their lives.I think it's empowering.The alternative is to accept this homewrecker on behalf of my WH(which he no doubt wants) only because they certainly don't want anything to do with her now,nor do the rest of us,and so I will try it instill in them a right,which they have,to say no Dad,I am not comfortable with this.If it comes down to accept her or you won't see Daddy,I don't know what I will do then but it wont be easy.

Thanks for checking in.It was so good to hear from you.

O

Hi AlostWife,

Thank you for sharing your story.It's so sad isn't it? What parents do to their children.It just breaks my heart and I cannot imagine doing anything to hurt my girls.My oldest is 13 too,like you were when you found out.It's such a traumatic time,anytime is really but this was a time for my DD to explore feelings for boys and friendships,etc and now she has no stable,solid dignified Father figure/man in her life s much as she needs to help her and show her what it means to be cared for by a man and treated with respect.No my WH doesn't physically abuse my children but emotionally and mentally he has destroyed them and their confidence was shattered.Now they see pain in relationships and marriage as opposed to what I was hoping to give them.That is not to say that I will speak ill of their Dad and I still believe in Marriage and vows.But I will have a lot more explaining to do to hopefully show them they can trust,in the right way,and be happy with a man one day.If what I am going through now will help them have the best marriage one day that they could have then it's all worth it.I will go through any pain if it benefits my girls.

I don't respect my Dad the way I should either.He has a lot of regrets now but it's a bit late for that.I just don't feel close to him and I never will.Too many walls up for protection.I am glad they are there though.I feel better with them in place.He visits the girls and we do have some fun together but those old mental films are there running through my head all the time still,30+ years later.

Thanks for the hugs and support.I appreciate it! And congratulations on your graduation and summa cum laude! Wonderful.You must be so proud of yourself!

O

TA - I think you have trouble distinguishing someone who is validly angry over an issue vs. someone harboring bitterness.

OG has every right to vent her anger about her STBXH violating their agreement and harming her daughters in the process.

You said
Nope -- this is NOT a vacation -- he chose to move that far away. It is NOT OG's responsibility to make him a decent parent or inform him of anything -- that responsibility is his alone. She doesn't owe him "niceness."

Mimi- curious about what "good" you're seeing in TA's posts. ?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

O'girl,

I'm sorry to hear about your childhood experiences - and the long-term effects on your relationship with your dad.

One of the shocking stats from that book is that children of divorce are much less likely to support either parent financially in their old age. If I recall correctly (unlikely, LOL) it's something like 30% or less of children from divorced families support their parents in old age, vs 65% of children from intact families.

What do you expect to do when your dad is in advanced age?

-AD

LEXXY:

I think I butted my big nose into a place where I don't really belong. I don't know enough about O'GIRL's situation, I don't know about her hx with Andrew, etc.

So, therefore, I sticking my head out of here....

Later,
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Ogirl,

I am so sorry to read that he has already gone back on the agreement you had regarding bringing romantic interests (OP's or others) into your kids lives at this very delicate/scary stage for them.

I know how you feel about this and I know why. It is because of your childrens emotional state and sense of security, on top of the immorality and disgustfulness of the whole thing. And the disrepect to you as their mom which you don't want to add onto their already overburdened plate.

TA -


My DD's dad and I split up when she was a baby and we had an agreement that neither one of us would bring our romatic interests into her life until we were to the point of engagement with an SO. We both honored that agreement for six years, SIX YEARS. My daughter although being raised in two separate households KNOWS who her parents are and that nobody NOBODY will ever threaten her sense of security or violate her home.

It is not only reasonable it is simply good parenting done out of love for ones child.

Now my daughter has a step-mom she adores, her dad and I are friends and she happens to really like my BF. All because we kept our promise to put her first over our love life. Her dad and I do have our differences but we respect each other as parents because of the agreements we honor regarding our DD, so we can get through the differences without a bunch of anger and resentment.

Ogirl,

You hang in there and I really like the idea Miss Pris had of the letter writing. They should be writing down their thoughts anyway.

TA

Since you like to quote Dr. Philisms so much here's one for you

No - he hasn't sexually molested his daughters.
No - he hasn't physically abused them.

YES HE HAS HARMED THEM MENTALLY and EMOTIONALLY - he has turned their safe and innocent childhood into a nightmare - he has violated that protective skin that preserves and protects a child's innocence which they have a right to have guarded with solemnity from their parents.

This was NOT OG's doing. It lands solely on the shoulders of her selfish, self absorbed STBXH. For you to imply even remotely that she shares in this harm of her children paints you as a woman-hater who thinks men get a raw deal when it comes to parenthood.

This father cares NOTHING for his daughters innocence.

He operates from the belief that "children are resilient."

BAH HUMBUG!

Hi AD,

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you.I had some rough days last week.

I don't know if I would support my Dad in the financial sense.I couldn't really,not now anyway.I get quite a lot of money from my STBXWH now but it all goes to my huge mortgage,expenses,savings,bills,etc,etc.Just for me to run the home and take care of the girls.I think he would end up in a Nursing home or maybe with family.He has many brother's and sisters who could take him in as he ages but right now he is still pretty self sufficient,even while undergoing chemo still for bladder cancer.

As for my Mom,she lives with me right now.It's temporary and I had asked her to move in when I was going through all this last year.I have plenty of room and we are very close.Plus,my girls just love having her here.So,I don't know how long she will stay but I'm not counting the days.She knows that I don't want to live with her forever but if she were ill then I would take her in again and take care of her as best I could.I have no brother's or sisters so it's all me.

I certainly feel that our family is not the same and thanks to my WH we will always have that wedge between us that will make it hard to associate.I just don't know if I could ever marry again knowing what kind of men are out there and so I wonder if I'll end up alone or not.I just pray to be healthy.


Thanks for all of the replys everyone.

O