Dorry,

I've been horribly busy at work today and haven't been able to participate as much as I'd like to.

Even though you and I spoke earlier via IM, I just wanted to thank you publicly for your apology and to let you know that I understand. I know you are hurting and I didn't take it personal at all. But thank you for apologizing.

When I get a little time, and when you feel ready, I hope that you and I can talk some more. Our opposing positions as WS/BS have often provided us valuable insight into each other's situations in the past and I think that could also be used to our advantage now.

I've been thinking about you all day and praying for you...

Love,

Froz

togetheralone said:

Too right.

Its very easy to cast stones. Very soothing too for people who are afraid of what their own feelings or actions entail. "Don't look to my own behavior and thoughts. Beat someone else up over it". I think psychologists call this "projection" BobPure.


My enduring thanks goes to everyone who has supported both Candice(DS) and I through this very hard time. Neither of us ever planned on being here, but still it IS our situation, not a figment of my imagination to kick off an affair.

If I wanted that, it would be very easy. Not my bag though. Anyone who thinks that should look to their own insecurities.

Hving said that, my feelings have drastically changed over the last 9 months of living through an affair and trying to see if I caould be satisfied with recovery. Where I am is not a failure of DS, who despite her failures made large efforts. Betrayal is an element I have never been able to get over, and this was a big one.

So the problem is DEFINATELY with me right now. (wow - doesn't sound TOO foggy, Bob, does it.)

I have started to notice other people, and that is a feeling. What I do with it is a choice.

1) Lie, ignore it, and pretend it isnt real
2) Hide it and pretend to be fully working on my relationship.
3) Seperate and pursue it, possibly screwing up someone else's life

Or my choice.

I am not going to be a WS. EVER. I am doing what every BS prays and begged God that their WS would have done.

I would have done anything to have had the truth, that Candice was feeling alone and not in love. And the truth may hurt. But it is a LONG way different than a hidden affair. I met people. I did not look for other people. No one ever has to go looking. It is always around you. You dont like my venue for friends? Think I can't handle it? I am an attractive fellow, but i have NEVER screwed around. Dont project your uncertainty about your ability to remain faithful on me Bob. Get a life

I made a very different approach. I closed the door on those people because it is unfair and potentially harmful to everyone involved.

How many BS's would give anything to have gotten that chance?


I am not working 100% on my relationship. Has f^ck all to do with other people. Has everything to do with what our state of our marriage.

Bob - maybe you should spend more time practicing what you preach, and go work things out with your wife instead of spending so much time giving ill informed advice.

Hi, sprint.

I want to tell you something that I have observed from you. This opinion will be very unpopular, but I urge you to carefully consider what I am saying.

You attitude toward your wife, and toward your marriage reeks of entitlement.

No offense intended here, but I think you are grossly missing the real issues in your relationship with your wife.

Your marriage was broken before the affair. It is more broken after. You are breaking it further.

If you would like to discuss this further, I will be back after midnight.

Gimble

Gimble,


Thanks for your honest and constructive reply, though I disagree.


IMO, the word "entitled" is far too overused IMHO. People ARE entitled to certain things in life.

If being open and honest about where you are emotionally, physically, and mentally with your partner is entitlistic, then the world's a better place for it. No need to expound on what that emotional, physical and mental is for BS's here.

Likely, if WS's were "entitlistic" in this fashion in the first place, MB would be solely a separation/divorce forum, and not an infidelity forum too.

Just my two cents...


This is not a divorce, its a seperation. People may not agree with it, but I wonder if THEY will be there to pick up the peices for my wife, my kids, and myself.


I doubt it. Non-commital advice is usually easier.

nevermind

I dont even want to discuss this

i wont be coming here again after this

goodbye everyone

Sprint, I asked for a separation 7 months after Dday. My WH never once asked me to reconsider. He had not made a single move towards me in all that time and he never spoke about his feelings or what he expected from me.

I totally understand what you need right now but the difference in our situations is that you have a wife who is truly sorry for her actions and wants to try and rebuild your crumbling relationship. I hope the time you spend alone helps you to clear your mind and see that you have a marriage worth fighting for. When a WS makes all the right moves, more than half the battle is won in my opinion. Even the fact that you have both posted here on MB and sought advice is all so positive. Good luck to you both. TT

Dorry and Sprint, I wish you both well and healing in your hearts. Dorry please reconsider giving up the support here. Sprint, I hope the separation is short you have a remorseful, loving wife and 2 very small children that need both their parents. I know you are both hurting but please keep those children in the forefront of your priorities.

God bless you both.

Sprint and Dorry,

Both of you please relax...okay. Sprint, I do not know what your relationship is with Christ, but Dorry...I know what you have said and shown. And as others have said before, this is not over.

Both of you listen to me a second. There may have been a lot of blame going around here on the board. So, I just want both of you to slow down. SLOW DOWN!!

Sprint...you are right. And man to man, as a fellow BS...I would like to talk to you privately, if you want to email each other. I do know what you are going thru. I have had, and still have had, many of the same feelings as you. You are entitled to those feelings, and if you want to act on this, after using your head and prayer...then NO ONE here has anything to say about that.

But, short of a private talk (which I am open to), I just wanted to add somwthing for both of you. I have had a lot on my plate here the last two weeks, so I havent finished the roles of the wife. (I will finish shortly). But I did do the roles of the husband.

Sprint, as you go forward in this, I want you to ask yourself "What is Jesus telling you to do here?" Of course, due to Dorry's adultery, you have the RIGHT to divorce her according to the Bible. Bt is that what God wants?

Anyway, I dont want to get into that here. dorry, please do not leave as this is the one rational place the two of you can lay things out there and get some feedback. Sprint...Iam hre if you want to talk.

In His arms.

Hi, sprint.

Quote:
=====================
People ARE entitled to certain things in life.
=====================

I completely agree.

It is unhealthy entitlement I take issue with.

In my eyes, I see your 'single lifestyle' actions as very similar to a wayward spouse. There is a certain 'signature' of entitlement that goes along with the feelings encompassed in an affair by a wayward spouse. They are readily identifiable, and most betrayed spouses learn to recognize them at some point.

You are acting much like your wife did in the early stages of her affair.

I can spell those out if you like, but I want to ask you outright. Are you involved in an emotional or physical affair?

Quote:
==================================
This is not a divorce, its a seperation. People may not agree with it, but I wonder if THEY will be there to pick up the peices for my wife, my kids, and myself.
==================================

First off, most separations end in divorce. It seems that many spouses view them as an end to the marriage, and begin to, or continue to, pursue other relationships.

I can't help with your kids, other than trying to help you see how your actions are adversely affecting them, and they are. If you have any doubt as to my sincerity regarding children, all you have to do is read a few of my posts here.

Who is looking out for the best interest of your children. Who is their hero?

Sprint, you and your wife have both contributed to the condition of your marriage. Your wife is facing up to her stupidity. What are you going to do?

All the best,
Gimble

Good morning everyone.

What a journey the past 6 months have been and what the next will be...

I wanted to share with you - my NON emotion, and my NON angry view on what I have comed to learn, and why I can not take responisibility for Sprint's choice to seperate

I do hold out hope that he will do some solitary recovery on his own, and I do hope in the end we will reconcile - but that will be dependent on what he can recover from, and what he can't.

Over the past few months, I have gone through feelings of shame, guilt, remorse, blame, anger, bitterness, entitlement, etc...and sorting through what each one is really to blame for and not to has been difficult.

I have found my way back the Lord Jesus Christ, and over time he has made it very clear to me on what my reposibilities as a Christian are.

For our current situation - I take FULL responsibility for contributing to where Sprint is at emotionally - I take responsibility for creating the conditions where he feels he needs to seperate - I do take responisibility for causing most of his pain. What I will NOT take responsibility for are the decisions he has made during this time, including his decision to seperate - HE is responisble for HIS own actions - as I have no control over them.

If I was to take responsibility for his seperation, and take the blame as if I had caused him to leave, then wouldn't it be fare for him to believe he was the cause of my affair - that he is to blame for me having the affair? Wouldn't that be the same course of thinking?

I was unhappy in my marriage pre-A. But MY actions to have an affair are MY actions alone, and he is not to blame for them - he can only take blame for contributing to where our marriage was pre-A. He cannot take blame for ANY of my actions during my time of hurt, and my time of feeling abandoned - MY actions are MY responsibility and I have OWNED up to all of them, and made the means to Right what I have done wrong, and learn and better myself.

So - I WILL not sit here and let people blame me (not just in this forum - but in life) for being the cause of Sprints decision to leave. I take 100% responisibilty for contributing to the conditions that have helped his decision, but I will NOT take responsibility for the actions he feels he has to take. His actions are his choice - whether I or anyone else agrees they are right or wrong, they are HIS actions.

I love Sprint with my heart and soul, and despite where our marriage was pre-A, we started out AMAZING...then we took eachother for granted. I also take 100% responsibility for contributing to those problems pre-A as well. But I do believe that if one day he is willing to try again, we can have that again, now that we know and we can learn from this.

I pray every day and every night that he finds some sort of peace - whether it be with or without me, and I pray God will come into his life, as God has come into mine.

Thank you all for all your support - i will still come in from time to time.

Dorry, email me any time if you want to "talk"
killnme2004-mb@yahoo.com

Praying for you and Sprint.

* Sprint
I know of you only what I read here. I know of infidelity only what I have studied and experienced.
I have offered you no DS any advoce, but I have,perhaps inappropiately stated my incomprehension and indignation.

You are responding to the challenge of recovery by dabbling in singles forums, and now seperation. Your choice, but i will not applaud nor mitigate your behaviour as many here are doing.

I have no doubts more complex dynamics are at play than I am aware of, but based on the limited information I have, I agree with Gimble. You are behaving as if you have 'permission' to live a single life as a result of DS' affair.

I claim no success, nor any skill. I do not yet know if Squid and I will make it as a recovered couple. And my hurt may last forever or become unbearable at some time. Who knows ?

But my thoughts are not projection upon you. I have no desire to dabble in singles forums, nor separate.

I wish you well, Sprint. You and your family.

All blessings.

* Pep

Singles forums ? You think thats an OK response to infidelity ? You never advised me to do that. Nor seperate once Squid started to work on recovery.

Sprints indigation is well earned by me though. This is not a place for my abstract opinion.

I am just a FBS who values my own integrity very highly. i would not have a decent man like Sprint compromise his integrity through temporary grief.

I have no idea if I have sand enough to endure the hardships of recovery, and I wasn't criticising Sprint for baling out ( if he has).

I was displaying my exasperation at his choice of behaviours as catalogued in this thread.

A FBS or FWS can bail whenever they want after infidelity IMO. Its an undrawn sword we all have.

Its the "dabbling in single life" stuff coupled with a desire for an ACTUAL single life that I feel is unhealthy and not justifiable. You want to do that , divorce. You want to stay married, don't do that.

Would you advise a BS its OK to 'experiment' in singles forums as part of recovery Pep ?

Bob, where is this coming from? Pep certainly didn't advise anyone to 'experiment' in a singles forum.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

hey bob.

I think it would be the delivery.

I said I didn't condone the behavior. I stated the behavior was the problem

You indicted Sprint with emotionally charged words. You stated Sprint was the problem.

I expressed sadness at the situation.

You expressed anger at Sprint.

Maybe thats the difference.

The fact is the situation is sad.... separation and all that.

Also... the fact is we don't truly know Sprint from Adam. Much like no one truly know you or I, save by proxy.

This is just my guess. Delivery.

Take it for what it's worth.

Susan, I was aparrently "out of order" to infer that Sprint dabbling in singles forums was not rightor justified.

So I am asking does Pep think it IS justified for a FBS so to do.

I think it is not and said so, too angrily.

Bob ... this is how this thread began. Nowhere does anyone say going to singles' forums while married is an OK behavior. Dorry indicates Sprint does not feel good about his own recent behavior.

Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

and Bob ... this was your reaction ...

comments?

Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

The last thing I would like is for either Sprint or DS to feel alienated from the MB community. I want to say to both that I feel for them, it is certainly no simple issue and I hope they can find their way back to each other.

I think one of the initial reason that several of us felt a little irritated (based on what DS posted - so actually second hand info) was because of 1) her obvious pain and remorse and 2) her description, in her last few threads, of Sprint's behaviour, including something that could be akin to an EA, and his spending every day on singles forums. I do understand how this can come about (I am a FWS after all!). I also don't see this as very conducive to having a clear mind in order to make very important decisions like separation.

However, it is their recovery and their M.

I do understand that some people are not able to overcome pain of a S's actions. That is not something they should be blamed for. I also think its very important for DS to understand that she is not to blame for Sprint's actions one way or another.

I hope that both will be able to learn from their traumatic experience. I do think their M is far from over and there is also an opportunity in their separation for new understanding and growth.

*edited for clarity and grammar!

Pep

Nowhere does anyone say going to singles' forums while married is an OK behavior.

No but theres a whole lot of saying I was wrong to call Sprint out on this behaviour. Its either OK for a FBS to do stuff like this, or its not. To slate any criticism of this behaviour ( not the inexcusable tone of my own contribution) is to condone such behaviour by a FBS IMO.

I can't do that.


I know the pain of an FBS as well as anyone in history and I know God less than many do, Sprint included probably.

But I know that to play with single-ness as a response to an affair reeks of 'permission' and should not be supported.

I can understand ANY behaviour up to and including murder after an affair, but I can't condone it.

Re my affair comment as you can see I immediately apologised for this unhelpful and hysterical overreaction, and left my post unedited only so that subsequent posters' responses could be seen in context.

And Sprint's way to deal with his singles dabbling behaviour is to......file to be actually single for a while ?

You really think that a PA is not a highly possible or even likely consequence of this behaviour ?

But I am not defending my post. It was knee-jerk opinion, extreme and unecessary and I have apologised for it.

I would NEVER attack a BS for baling out of recovery. Its a hard road and I may yet bale myself.

But I have come to loathe entitled behaviour as a cause of much misery in relationships and I believe some FBS feel entitled to behave in any way that makes them feel 'good' after an affair. I attempted SUICIDE for goodness' sakes, and that about as sinful and selfish as you can get.

I have some very dark days, but I fear God and cling to my vows in desperation, like a life raft ,not self-righteousness on such days.

And the solace I get from knowing I am doing the right thing while being tossed in a storm of pain and confusion ameliorates the sadness and makes me PROUD of myself in a short time.

I would have Sprint, a Godly man, feel the same way whether he goes or stays.

'Entitled' behaviour hurts everyone and is not truly fulfilling IME.

I pray Sprint and DS find peace together.