Julie,

First, I am praying for you and your family.

Re your therapist, the advice on waiting to confront POW, and the different POV's you've read here:

I am with those who would advise to confront. I am sure your therapist is well qualified, but I sense a need on the part of the counselor to control the situation.

I counseled with Dr. Ellen Kreidman ("Light Your Fire" author) and she advised going to see the OW (looking your best, of course), firmly and directly (not nastily, but not so nicely, either) telling her that you are not going to put up with her going out with your H, you & H are very much married, your are very sexual with each other, and you expect her to leave your H alone. Plain & simple.

Whatever you do, good luck.

I empathize with you as my FWH's A was work-related. His co-worker was his superior on a negotiation. It was a horrible thing. We are doing well in Recovery, but my radar is forever turned on. While the OW is far, far away, and is out of our lives, H has begun a new project. I am feeling nervous and triggered by the prospects of the new friendships that may develop on this job.

Julie, I would just caution you about agreeing to any contact at all if this is truly an affair. Contact is contact, and if this is an affair, your marriage will never recover as long as there is any contact AT ALL. Just think about it, it was their "work contact" that got them where they are now, so it certainly can't be the solution.

Every time they see each other will put him and you back to Day 1. You can look forward to a life of hell wondering every day what they are doing at work. Agreeing to even work contact is a huge mistake. Harley is ADAMANT that all contact end, in an affair, even if it means moving across the country.

I get how there is supposed to be no contact, but I don't get how that happens with jobs. Does everyone else have no trouble switching jobs when they want to?

Anyway, I guess I don't have a good feeling about this. My heart is sinking, but with the way things have gone the last week, I don't think h is going to choose to stay married. I am just heartsick about it. But I am tired of giving him chance after chance. I don't understand why things seemed to be so much better, and within a week everything flip-flopped and it's all so terrible. I feel like such an idiot and a loser. I can't live like this anymore.

julie

Julie,

Idiot? No way!

Loser? Absolutely not!

How about good wife? Good mother? Good woman?

The problem may be your H doesn't believe he could lose you. Easy to say, hard to do, but do not be a doormat.

Stand up for yourself. Do you believe in or want an open marriage? Then firmly say to your H that you love him, but your not Princess Di, and you are not going to share. You will help him, you will address the areas in your relationship that are lacking, but you are not going to be made a fool.

Your H is sick right now. He needs your help, your love. But it's going to be tough love sometimes.

Good luck.

Julie, believe me, no one has said it was easy. There are no easy solutions here if you want to save your marriage.

Julie,

Re switching jobs: No...it is not easy. In this economy it is hard. Very hard. But, even when not switching jobs, there are things that can be done.

Perhaps your H can work it so he does not have any C with POW.

***I get how there is supposed to be no contact, but I don't get how that happens with jobs. Does everyone else have no trouble switching jobs when they want to?***

No, it's usually a hell of a lot of trouble, but if the marriage is worth it they do it anyway.

That's kinda the point.

And I sure sympathize with you about workplace affairs. This kind of behavior is condoned and supported there, because it makes people happy to spend lots and lots of extra time at work and on the road. Don't let anyone tell you it's "not allowed" at work. It's the biggers perk any company has to offer and they're not about to change anything. Show me one that has EVER cracked down on this.

Hang in there. Your story is very typical.
Mulan

Mulan, I have seen our Section Director led off the premises by a security guard after being fired by our Region Director for having a workplace affair in 1995. At the time, I worked for a top 10 Fortune 500 company. Currently, I work for #61 on the F500 and workplace affairs are not tolerated here either. I know it goes on, but don't think thats an accurate generalization.

Another update. H is home. I stayed calm and collected, told him about my day, tried to act normal. Then, when he was asleep, I went and checked his blackberry and read through every e-mail I could find from her or to her. It looks like to me he is on the brink of an emotional affair, if not head long in the middle of one. It doesn't look like it's physical. It's possible that he could have deleted any reeeally incriminating e-mails, but I don't think he would...it looked like everything was in there.

I would consider many of the e-mails inappropriate in that he is being overly familiar and chatty with her. Some of them are very much friend e-mails. One said something about "Did you miss our morning chat?"

The one thing that really, really bothered me is that in two of them he referred to her as "skirt." I can only presume this is an allusion to the office flirting that goes on in Bridget Jones's Diary. (If you haven't seen it, Bridget and her boss share a series of e-mails about her clothes). This struck me as highly inappropriate.

I guess my hope (and maybe it's a vain one) is that he really doesn't think I would ever call him on his behvaior, or leave him. Well, he's about to find out otherwise. Maybe that will shake him enough that he will want to stay in this marriage. Maybe not. But I am completely done putting up with it. Skirt, indeed! I am pretty much sitting on my hands so I don't e-mail her and tell her what I think of this.

Looks like I may be headed for plan B. How depressing.

julie

Julie, I would move forward and confront him about this before it gets out of hand.

I'm planning on it, Melody. He goes to see the therapist alone this morning. I will be at work (considered not going, but I think it will be better if I am just busy, as I am going nuts here at home and am not able to really concetrate on anything). Therapist is going to tell him about the conversattion I had with ehr yesterday, adn tell him he needs to decide whether he wants to be married to me or whether he wants to estentially date other women. I wish I could be confident that he would put our marriage and our children over his desire for "freedom" but I'm really not. Anyway, one way or another I expect a decision to be made today. If he can't promise to cut out all inappropriate office behvaior, then he will be figuring out how he can afford to support two households on his salary.

julie

Julie,

Good luck today. I am sure that you will have an intense discussion with H today. Be ready for FogBabble, for rationalizations, for lies, for H to go on the 'attack', defending his behavior, for him to project this back onto you.

I believe you are right about the e-mails. I also think they are probably all there. Why deliete some, leaving others?

So, you've most likely caught this at the early EA phase. Good.

Put a stop to it now. Be firm. Be strong. Again, be ready for Fog behavior. Do not bargain.

May WSs do not 'get'that an EA is just as bad as a PA. They rationalize that, as long as there is no sex, it's OK. That's like saying you're only a little bit pregnant.

Any relationship kept secret from the spouse is cheating. Period.

Plan B? I do not think so. Not yet. Plan A, yes. NC with a NC letter from H to the POW. Yes, right away. Working things out at work, so there is no work C. yes, right away.
Plan B is for when Plan A fails.

Prayers, blessings, and hugs to you.

Julie,

One more thing. There is a thread - most helpful - on 'Reverse Babble' by Orchid. Do a search here . Find it and read it. It will help you deal with the ridiculous things your H will say.

Good luck.