I'm wrestling with confronting whom I believe to be the OM. My wife told me she was talking to OM from last time on the phone, which led me to believe that it was him again. However, now I'm not so sure, and believe it may be someone else. So, I'm contemplating talking to OM #1 and see what he has to say; not that I'm going to believe any of it, but then again maybe so.
I have no intention on confronting possible OM #2 until I have more than a suspicion.

As far as exposure goes; following MB Principles I know the Affair should be exposed to everyone and anyone. I did this last time and it worked like a charm. The thing I'm wrestling with this time is exposing the affair to her friends, family, co-workers, etc. The divorce busters (am I right TMCM?) say that you should not approach friends or family.

So, any suggestions??

Hey TM...long time, huh?

To answer your question....

The deal is to not count on her family, friends in helping you. But you still must expose. Why? Because they are not in the fog like your wife. And although to you they will defend her, around her, it will be readily apparent what is going on and that she has lost her mind. Thus, at best...they will begin to try to help her. At worst, they will not want to get involved.

Also, once your wife knows that they know...then the secrecy thing is gone. And secrecy fuels affairs. Once exposed, affairs begin to lose that fuel. So, expose, expose, expose.

If you need help in getting intel, you know I can help guide you there. I did a great intel op on my wife, getting enough that even the judge we saw when she filed for custody of the kids (I got custody <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) had to admit that there wasnt much for her to say.

Hope that helps.

In His arms.

MM, yes it's been a long time. Unfortunately, it hasn't been long enough. I believe I understand now, expose very matter of factly, without emotion and appearing to slander my wife or the OM. Am I right?

What about confronting OM #1, who she admitted to speaking to? My first thought was that it was him again, but now I'm beginning to wonder if she didn't throw that out there just as a bone for me to chase. There is another person that she worked with whom I did not feel comfortable about. I don't want to give up too many details on the forum because I don't know if she's coming here to see what I'm up to or not.

I may solicit some of your guidance on gaining intel; I did a pretty good job myself last time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> but I'm not sure that I have, or want to expend the energy that I did last time either. Does that sound bad?

Correct!!

Dont talk to him yet. You need more info. You talk to him and it will get back to your wife. So hold off for the time being.

As you know, without proof, there is no exposure. She will just lie. So, you must get the intel.

Now, both of us did some extensive stuff on the intel the last time around, right? But I have learned that there are better ways, less time consuming...but proof nonetheless.

You need proof, my man. It wont take much, as she has already been found out before. So, get with it.

One thing you can purchase is the semen detection kits. Very effective. Doesnt require any work. If you suspect last night she wasnt where she is supposed to be, just grab the panties from yesterday and run a test. If semen is present, then you can send off the panties, plus a sample from yourself, in order to get a documented DNA report back stating there was semen present and it was not yours.

Now, that all maybe cost $100 total. You didnt have hours and hours of surveillance. It took just minutes. And you have the proof you need.

From there, you can conduct the surveillance you need to catch them. A PI. Or friends. Or vehicle tracker. Whatever. Once caught together and you then know who it is, and having semen in her panties that isnt yours...it is an open and shut case.

From there, then you can go onto Plan A & exposure/Plan B.

Anyway, there are many ways to skin a cat. I choose now to do it much easier and smarter. So far, my wife continues to come up "clean" with the ways that I am doing it (and I cant post here otherwise if she checks here she will know my methods).

In His arms.

Exposing the affair is a very crucial part of Plan A but don't confuse exposure with seeking help from her close friends and family because they are 2 totally separate things. You must firt gather evidence [your suspicions or your word [no matter how good it is] will not suffice] and then expose your W's affair to the OM's W or GF [girlfriend] and to her parents and close friends. But once you expose the affair, refrain yourself from asking them for their help. The exposure is so that she won't try to pull a fast one by her introducing any OM as 'This is my good friend ______ .....' so that she can start integrating him into their lives. They will know who her friend really is and they will either accept him or reject him altogether. Hopefully they will choose the latter but that is inconsequential because it is out of your hands anyway. But imagine if they do repudiate him, how stressed your WW is going to be. That stress will inject a very toxic dose of reality into the fantasy life of her affair, and just might hasten its demise.

TMCM

MM, you are right; we both did some very extensive "information gathering" last time. I don't think the DNA thing will work as she is no longer in the house, so without breaking into her new house (no, I'm not going to do that) there would be no way to get them.

I'm very reluctantly considering some more primitive tactics, but I will try and send you a PM before hand if that's ok. Like I said, I don't know if she's lurking here or not, she knows I used this site extensively last time, and my Username doesn't leave too much room for guessing.

TMCM, I understand now what must be done. I'm still very hesitant at the "information gathering" for several reasons; maybe if I list them here someone can give me a sanity check on what's right, wrong and just plain "psycho" as my wife puts it.
1) Wife says last time I was psycho because of the extent I went to in gathering information.
2) Wife now says last time she was "Deathly afraid of me" because of the way I was acting. AND, she's still afraid of me because she's just waiting for me to turn "psycho" again.
3) Last time the information gathering consumed me, it was all I thought about, it was all I did, and I almost went bankrupt doing it.
4) Technology has changed significantly in the past 2 years, and I'm not so sure I could afford to do the things that need to be done in the manner in which I know how.
5) The thought of "information gathering" is a completely EXHAUSTING thought; I honestly do not know if I have the energy to go through this again.

This may sound very negative and extremely bad, but this is the 2nd time that as things began to get a little rough at home she's went somewhere else for "a true friend" and someone to talk to. Why should I waist any more time and energy on someone that is going to run as soon as the going gets a little rough? What happens another 2 years down the road? How many times should I go through this? As I said in another thread, she has forsaken every vow we took; I'm loosing my job, our finances are in shambles, and I'm physically broken from a recent motorcycle accident. All of these things I should be able to lean on my spouse for support, comfort and assurance..... But, she's not here. Part of me is asking myself why I would waiste one more minute on someone that obviously does not love me or want to spend the rest of her life with me....

The other part of me says I have to...

TM94,

I understand your points clearly but I also see that you are letting your anger and bitterness get ahold of you and that is not good for you.

Remember that the advice Whisper28 and I have given you is actually to help you FIRST and your marriage second.

I remember Tony Robbins, the famours motivational speaker, appearing on Larry King live just shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks and he said something I will never forget. When asked by Larry King how should we deal with the attacks, Tony said that the key to transcending the ordeal lay in how well we wholeheartedly incorporate [not play lip service] to accepting the truth that at some point in time, everything can totally chage for the worse in a blink of an eye and try as we might to eliminate the potential horrors, all we can expect is to minimize the probabilities. TM, even in the best of circumstances, NOBODY can predict what is going to happen because RISK is inherent to life. The question is, can you live with risk?

TMCM

TMCM, you are right about my emotions and I have realized that, but I'm not sure what to do about it. Wife is coming over to the house tonight to get some of her stuff and pick up her dog; I'm thinking that it probably would not be a good idea for me to be there. But, at the same time I look at as an opportunity to shine in front of her, so I'm torn between going home and TRYING VERY HARD to do my best Plan A effort, or going to a friends house and drinking a couple of beers in hopes that I will relax and calm down.

The other part of me (the desperate part) says this is the last chance I'm going to get to see her for the weekend, so the desperate part of me wants to be there just to see her and hear her voice.

The rational part of me is telling me not to go home because my emotions are not entirely under control right now (obviously), but I haven't made up my mind yet, still have another 1/2 hour or so of work.

TM IF you are sure that you will not be able to control your emotions then it might be best for you not to be there when she goes to pick her dog up.

You didn't answer my question, did you? so I'll ask it again, can you live with risk?

TMCM

2MCM, can I live with risk? Can anyone live without it? Yes and No. Yes I can live with risk, No you cannot live without it, the only thing you can do (as your quote states) is minimize risk.

My question to you is, what risk are you referring to? How do you minimize risk in a relationship? I understand the concepts of the Love Bank and Love Busting, but right now I'm just not sure what to do. My emotions are going up and down and sideways so fast it's hard to keep track of myself. On the outside I'm excellent, happy, upbeat, joking & generally happy with myself and fun to be around. Inside I'm in termoil, continually rolling back and forth between anger, hurt, resentment, happiness, contentness and near rage. I'm still in debate on weather or not to go to the house tonight, part of me believes that I can keep my game face on and the other part of me thinks I'm going to snap and do some serious Love Busting.

The risk that your marriage may or may not survive no matter what you do. If you answer no, then you have some ways to go before you are strong enough where you can make peace and let go of the fear of your marriage not surviving. A BS's fear can be felt by a WS and be exploited to continue with the affair, just ask whisper28. Remember the moto 'Pain is unavoidable, misery is not'.

TMCM

What about a nice gentle letter to the OM? Advise him of the damage that contact does and the fact that you WW will always struggle to heal if there is C and the A continues even at an emotional level.
Then if contact continues more exposure is a must.

kayak

TMCM, in that respect YES I can live with risk. I no longer believe that I cannot make it without my wife. I know it will be difficult for a while, and it will be even more difficult for our children, but I do not fear loosing her as I once did. The motto you quote is excellent; I know there will be much pain that I will endure, but misery is a choice. Every day I wake up I choose to make that day a good day vice a bad day. This takes quite a bit of effort some days, but I refuse to me miserable because I am in charge of my own emotions, feelings, mood, attitude, etc.

Kayak, I don't believe a letter to OM#1 would work; we've had conversations before and it obviously hasn't had much of an impact. As far as suspected OM#2, I've only met him once, but I'm a firm believer in the fact that any man who would pursue a relationship with someone he knows is a married woman with children would not place any weight on a simple letter. Someone like this (IMHO) places no weight on the sanctity of marriage or family values, they are selfish and greedy, and again, IMHO are waisting the air we breathe.
Thank you for your reply.