TA,

Please do not project your sitation with your sister onto grapegirl.

Not one of us is perfect here. Sometimes it is so hard to be non judgemental ALL of the time. Especially due to the circumstances.

Your ego is showing when you say you are RIGHT 99% of the time. I think you think too much of yourself. Sorry if this is a 2x4, TA. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I think one of gg's problems is that she has been the primary caregiver all these years and so her WS is not connected with the kids, never has been, cause she has done it all.

I suggest gg create an atmoshphere where WS has MORE responsiblilty in the kids lives. He doesn't have to, he never has. This needs to change in MVHO.

gg, step back, and stop doing so much!!!! Please get some legal separation thing going, let WS have the kids that are minors some of the time. Let him get to know them, hon. You have to set some boundaries and stick to them.

Its okay that DD told dad how she feels. He needs to step up to the plate. Do your best to step back and let that happen.

I know this is a hard situation. I know your Ws is not doing what he needs to for the kids, but he never has. So you have a lot of work to do to facilitate this. Why would he make any effort when he knows you will do it all?

Just MVHO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Praying for you and your kids on this day. God Bless. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Good lord what has this thread come to.....are we sure this is TA and not some wack job logging on to that account? I understand everyone here has there own angry issues but OMG man....that really isn't necessary. whats the old motto we all heard growing up....If you can't say any thing nice (or even remotely respectable) don't say anything at all...I would like to think we all here are adults and have learned right from wrong and how to treat others.

OT for a moment:
Surviving - I have avoided clicking on certain threads that show the rantings of someone who is not interested in marriage building, only in being "right" - and with this new bulletin board design, you can actually "ignore" a poster, so that you don't have to read their "stuff" when they post on other people's threads. I don't use this button lightly - but I might suggest it in a few cases where the rantings get offensive.

Now when those individuals post on a thread that I'm wanting to lend my strength and support, I no longer read their rantings. And it also helps so that I don't respond to nonsense.

It really helps! It would help more if people didn't give full quotes and respond to trolls, but what can you say?

Back on topic: Grape Girl - congratulations for allowing your daughter to experience the full scope of expressing her feelings. The fact that she felt safe sending the card is also an expression that her father is truly a safe person to her - that she can express her anger and her rage at him without fear of being treated inappropriately by a parent. Sadly, she may discover that this imposter who has assumed her father's form may not be so safe.

I would suggest that if your WH gets his skivvies in a twist about it, that you ask him to relay the message to you husband, when he can find the lost soul, that he is a wonderful father - and though the card pours out a lot of anger from his daughter, he has helped to raise a courageous daughter who felt safe enough to tell him how she really feels. And that you hope that part also means something to the lost man - and that you hope your daughter can have that man back in her life soon.

-KA-

Here's my two cents...

though she said these things....she doesn't really mean them....not deep down felt true sentiments...these are knee jerk let me think of a anyway to get your attention words...

these are the exact type of sentiments put out by a almost teenager trying to get her dads ATTENTION....and as we all know ...any type of attention is better than none...

I see no need to break down the verbage....

According to WH, like everything else, IT'S MY FAULT! I have obviously poisoned my kids' minds. There is absolutely no way that that DD could possibly come up with these kind of emotions on her own.

so what was your response to this...

what did you point out to him..
what did YOU say to this crap of verbage...

Your daughter does not need counseling
your daughter needs a father who quits conflict avoiding...
and you need a plan to be done with the chaos soon enough...
so that you will become the strong NON conlfict avoiding role model in her life...

what did he SAY to her about the card!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARK

Hi Grape:

First of all, what are your thoughts about scheduling your WH with Steve Harley? Steve helped us with this very issue regarding my H's relationship with our son!

IMHO, your H'a A has exacerbated a problem that was already present in your family. Your WH was distant from the children before the A. The A could have only made this worse. He seems no different than other WSes in focusing only getting his fix from the OW. MY FWH basically abandoned our YS, too, during his senior year in HS and was a workaholic while our kids were growing up... I think I discussed this all with you before. He changed during midlife, realized he was distanced from his family, didn't know how to become a part of us, tried to create a new family with the OW... you know how the story goes...

Just want to share that looking back over OUR MESS, I wish I had not shared so much with my YS. I am embarassed about how much he was involved and it has seriously affected his R with his F. It was enough for him to deal with his F's betrayal and absence than to also have to be included in adult stuff which was way over his head. I am guilty of what TA is referring to... REALLY AM... and our son has suffered because of it....

I learned this from my own mother who involved me too much in her issues with my F. It negatively affected my R with my F throughout my whole life.

I was so emotionally connected to my M that whatever she was feeling, I was feeling. It got to the point that she didn't even have to share with me. That's what happened between me and my YS. So even if you don't directly share your feelings with her, she will experience them. Is this making sense?

What I am saying is that this is a real balancing act. Validate her feelings and listen to them because she is definitely feeling abandoned and hurt. However, she has the feelings of a daughter and you have the feelings of a wife. She will only have one father for the rest of her life. You can have another husband. Is this making sense?

In the balancing act, try to help leave a space open in her heart for her F. I do think that this is part of your job as a mother. This is something that you can do for her that she cannot do for herself. Plus, your H is lost and cannot work on his parenting role at this time either.

In my opinion, we all need a FATHER and a MOTHER. I need my FATHER now. He is gone. I see my YS needing his FATHER now. I hate the part that I played in the problems in their R. Of course, I am not perfect and was doing the best I could with an awful situation. The good news is that my H now is working diligently to heal his R with our sons so change can happen....

I don't know if I've said all that I've been trying to share with you. This is a loaded topic for me....

TRYING......

SNORT! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> That's priceless. Poor baby. Hugs for you both, you'll survive this rotten poophead.

Grape Girl:

IMHO your daughter is not just like any other teenager. Normal teenagers are already questioning their parents' values and testing limits. To learn that her F is having an A at this time is mindblowing for a teenager who already is struggling with tons of issues...

I just can't see your daughter as being just like any other teenager....

I'm speaking from personal experience as having been a teenager who found out my F was having an A. I did rage and scream at him. He allowed this. Otherwise, we seldom spoke to each other for about a year. It was a very painful and lifechanging experience that even at age 50 I will never forget....

I know now that life can hold no guarantees, we weren't promised a "Crystal Stair" (Langston Hughes poem) but I wish my parents had handled it more carefully and gently....

Thanks for being honest mimi. Sorry for what you are going thru.

I made that statement for a reason.

I see soooooooooooo many women complaining about their ex-husbands it makes me sick. I feel like slapping them in the face and telling them to shut the hell up and deal with it.

Every single woman in my wifes office complains about their ex husbands. Do women EVER believe that THEY were the problem? Why is the male always the JERK?

My sister and her friends all complain about their Ex in front of their kids and families.


I let my sister have it one day. I was literally face to face spitting at her while I was yelling at her. I told her I was F'n tired of hearing her and all her LOSER friends demean her ex husband in public and in front of their children. I said "can't you see the pain in your daughters face when you talk like this?" My sister replied "she doesn't like him either, she thinks he's a bigger Jerk than I do."

See what I mean? She doesn't get it, she just doesn't get it.


I guess it's much easier to Blame the EX than to have to face responsibility for your own actions.


I hear women in public talk negatively about their Ex, it appears this is accepted in todays society.


I was in Toys R Us a few months ago standing in line. This little girl was asking her mother for a certain toy, without hesitation and very loud so everyone could hear the mother said "if YOUR Father didn't Divorce [b]US and leave us with no money then I could have bought you that toy.

WTF? I wanted to kill this B****. She is destroying this little girls self worth. The mother told her the father divorced US, what a B****.

To every woman on this site, PLEASE DO NOT EVER TALK BAD ABOUT YOUR HUSBAND IN FRONT OF YOUR CHILDREN AGAIN, EVER.



Can you imagine if you heard men complaining about their Ex wife? Yes this happens, but it is NOT accepted.

Do women realize that in Divorce the male gets screwed most of the time. Not only Financially but in terms of custody rights? Men have a reason to be ticked off.

On top of all this the ex wife slams him every chance she has in front of his children. This guy CAN'T win.

People make me sick when they BLAME the Ex.

Guess what? If my wife and I Divorce we are 50/50 responsible for what happened. NOT 100% ME. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Every single person on this site was responsible for what happened in their marriage. NO one escapes responsibility.

OK - TA - so I stayed faithful for 26 years - never came close to an affair - raised 3 children with practically no help - was left for a serial cheater 16 years younger than my husband - he has pulled himself away from his 3 adult children - to the point where he has threatened not to walk his own daughter down the aisle because one of the men that this woman wanted to cheat with was invited - a friend of mine for years - and is being allowed by the church to annul the marriage even though he and this woman cheated??? Explain it to me please. This is my fault how? That is what he did to me all those years - everything that was wrong was my fault.
I do understand that there is a lot of ex bashing and it goes both ways - even though my children are grown I try my best not to say anything negative about their father - but you know what - he has done that job all on his own by acting the way he has. I think you are being really harsh and down right cruel.

Ignore the rantings of someone who, right now, obviously has it in for women.