WH has agreed to my Plan B terms however he refuses to let me see the email or be present while he tells OP about NC. How can I make him understand the importnace of this? Is it important that I witness this or is it possible to move forward without my witnessing this?

newlywed, I don't understand why he wouldn't allow you to see it? If he is sincere about ending the affair and recommiting to your marriage, then he should welcome it. This would concern me. He should have no contact with the OW to which you are not privy. There can't be anymore secrets between he and the OW. Its not just the matter of the letter I question, but his sincerity.

And there should be NO in person contact at all. It should be done by letter and letter only.

Did you mean plan A? Plan A must come before plan B and usually the sending of NC-letter forms part of plan A. You can read all about plan A & B here. You will also find this thread on Plan A very helpful.

Yes, it is important that you witness and agree on the contents of the NC-letter.

Here is what Dr Haley says on the NC-letter and how it should be done:

How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone.
My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.

Here is a sample of NC letters.

BINGO!

Then I'm a little confused about Plan A/B. I was in Plan B until yesterday when my husband agreed to my plan B terms. He said he was not in contact anymore but did not officially communicate NC to her and would because I asked him to. So do I insist on this at this point, go forward working through things without a NC or go back to plan B?

nw, but he hasn't agreed to your Plan B terms until he sends the letter in the manner outlined above. That is the least he can do, nw, since you have agreed to take him back. If he is sincere about recommiting to your marriage, this shouldn't be an issue. Just tell him that this is an extremely important first step in rebuilding trust.

Does he have a plan to repair the damage in your marriage, nw? I would ask him to have a plan in place before he moves back. Recovery will be the hardest part so it can't be left to chance. There must be a clear plan in place in addition to TWO committed people.

nw, what is his reason for not allowing you to see the letter he sends to OW? That makes no sense if he is truly sincere about ending contact. How can he expect to rebuild trust if he starts off with a BIG SECRET that only he and the OW are privy to?

Does that make any sense to you? Does that sound like a man who is sincere about commiting to his marriage? Sounds to me like his commitment to your marriage might be TALK instead of ACTION.

Many WS will say whatevr they have to do to end Plan B and then resume their affair. They miss having their needs met by the BS but not enough to end the afffair. So, they will say whatever they have to say to get back in. Could that be happening here?


What proof do you have that the affair has ended? He won't even let you be in the same room or see the letter so it sounds like he is hiding something.

Melody: Thanks for all of your input. I totally agree with you but my H is tricky.

My WH thinks that I am treating him like a child (one of his previous complaints in our marriage) by insisting on the NC letter. Last night for a few moments I felt that he sincerely wants us to recover. For the first time he was honest with me about things that he flat out lied about before. My snooping has revealed a lot of truths to me over the last several months and when I questioned him his stories began to finally match up. He is a VERY private and non-communicative person so I feel that his efforts last night are encouraging. I do feel that at this point he will end things with her for good even without an official NC. I know according MB guidelines this is a must but how do I recognize his efforts without losing any ground? Should I Plan B again?

Newly:

We're like parents trying to warn you based on our past experience.

I had more than one false recovery with my FWH. He charmed me more than once into thinking he was ending it with her.

Believe us when we say, when he really wants to reconcile with you and he is really finished with her, he will be more than willing to do the NC LETTER. It is the ultimate test of his sincerity. He has to make up his mind to be finished with her FOREVER. Your H is not demonstrating that conviction.

Until he has been in withdrawal for 3 to 6 months, he remains an alien, foggy and addicted to her. He sounds like he is not ready to totally give up his fix. He likely sees himself trying it out with you to make sure. He wants to hold on to her in case it doesn't work out with you. It's the MO of the cake-eater, NEWLY.

Stick with your guns about the NC LETTER that you read and mail together...

Like Mel says, why should have a problem with this?

"Sweetheart. Let me know when you are ready to write the NC letter. I am unwilling to recover without that NC letter."

end of discussion

You can't control him, and make him write it.

You can and should control whether or not you return to a marriage without this necessary reassurance.

Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Okay...thanks everybody.

I spoke with him this afternoon and asked him agan about NC. He started raising his voice and saying he doesn't think I'll ever be able to move past this (meaning the whole situation). I told him I will if he does what needs to be done. He has to trust me in this like I have to trust that he will maintain no contact.

Anyway, I asked him what plan he had for our recovery. He said, "Maybe I should go read a book." This was intended to be a jab at me so I just said calmly, "Maybe you should." Then I told him to go figure out what he thinks should be our plan for recovery and then get back to me.

I don't think I'll here from him for awhile. In the meantime it's back to plan B. I really don't mind plan B so much...it's much easier than plan A.

Ohhhhhhhhhh

this is a good sign! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Your Plan B is making him twitchy and irritable ... go darker undercover Plan B ... don't respond to anything except total unconditional surrender...

He's feeling the pain of missing you but may need a few breadcrumbs to lead him home... but not right now.

Don't feel sorry for him ... he's a big boy. He can read. He knows what you require for re-entry, he just doesn't want to give up the OW who represents ---> 'just in case this M doesn't work out' *spit* ... to hell with that!

Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

nw, I think he is almost "there," but he is just testing you a little to see how far he can go. Don't back down on these issues while you still have the leverage. These are pretty critical issues in rebuilding trust and I wouldn't waver on this. You can't recover this marriage if you start off with yet another secret with the OW.

Don't settle for less and don't trade away your leverage while you have it. He needs to know you won't settle for crumbs and that you mean business. IF you settle for crumbs, that is what you will get, believe me.

You have received some great advice here.

I thought that I would add the FWS perspective as further support of the above and since the "what's normal" guage seems to get so out of wack after an A.

I am a FWS one year into recovery. What you are asking of your WH is beyond reasonable (he is lucky you are even considering taking him back, let alone just asking he prove to you that he will stop betraying you.) His response is NOT reasonable. When my BH presents me with an opportunity to rebuild his precious trust, I not only take the opportunity I am enthusiastic about taking the opportunity!

So don't just take him back when he agrees to Plan B terms, but when he is ENTHUSIASTIC about agreeing to them!

Reinvesting in the M and giving what it takes to achieve a succsessful recovery require a lot of energy from both of you, but I think especially from the FWS who has already taken more of their share of the emotional capital and need to give back!

Stay strong, don't settle for less--you have already gone this far!

I was having a pretty decent day. I was just hanging out reading the forum and I noticed my WH logged onto his online messenger account. All I can think now is great...that means he's chatting with all those women again. Ugh! Why do I care? This afternoon I was thinking I'm fine without him but the thought of him having one of those online chats (that I've found and read before so I know the kind of chats he has!) makes me sick.

I think he saw me log on because he just logged off. Ugh!

Newlywed,

I think you need to confront your H about his inappropriate behavior (the online chats with women) and let him know that this is unacceptable behavior to you… IMO your H must first be willing to stop ALL inappropriate contact with the opposite sex before you allows him to move back in with you again. This must form part of your plan B terms IMO.

Suzet