YOu don't move out..if anyone does it should be her. You've read Mortarman on this or was that Gramn's thread where he recently told a bit of his experience to?

I have been in plan A since april 04. Or whatever it is called when she is not in an affair. (she had a severe recovery from 1st OM, and would not let me meet some needs. Went straight from that to current A.)

Plan B might be upcoming.

OH - she also mentioned why could we not live separate lives together - with me supporting her plays and work still!!

I guess it is time to start thinking plan B. I could ask her and her pal (19yo that she works with - having a rough time of life but pulling herself up by her own bootstraps) that lives with us to find a place, and work things out themselves.

OH - and using Christian ethics on her creates a bad response. I asked what she thought Jesus would do. Yes, I know it is bumper sticker - but it is still a good question.

Her response: " be true to yourself".

Now she is saying that all the years at our old church were not with "her people". Funny - she was part of the counseling staff there...

Thanks for preparing me for the BS. Really good to know to let roll.

Man oh man oh man.

Launch the nuke.

You've got NOTHING to lose.

One option, since she's obviously worried, is to show part of your hand - you know she's involved with Mr. Taster-Geezer. Nothing more. A little bird told you.

Let her squirm.

Take all your evidence to your lawyer and go for full custody of the kids. Take no prisoners. The Full Monty. In parallel, expose to OM's wife. Show her the e-mails. Take no prisoners.

If it were me, I'd confront Mr. Taster-Geezer and get in his face: "Stay away from my family or I will make you wish you never met me." Not everyone will agree with this, but that's what I would do.

WAT

I appreciate your steam on my behalf, WAT.

The lawyer told me the state of CA does not care if she is in an affair - taking the kids to his house, as long as he is not dangerous to the kids. I guess that means he was convicted of indecency.

As long as she is with them more of the time, she gets major custody. He did tell me the more time I can document spending with them helps shave the child support expense.

He is ready to do paperwork and shuffle it over. Court closes at 4:30.

I told OW that I wouldn't just go away so they could live happily ever after...

What you Jesus do?....more like: die to yourself..ie: be selfless...serve others...

Hi, found.

I know this is repetitive, but - scorched earth.

If you are an imposing man, or if you are just highly pissed off, I have to agree with WAT that you should physically confront other man.

Don't hit him.

She knows that you know. She is already trying to play cover up and damage control.

You need to decide what you are going to do, found - and quick. She may get mad, she may pitch a fit, or hate your guts, but she will eventually respect strength.

You can always just let it go until it ends, and then she finds the next guy. She is a serial cheater. Break the game by exposing it. File for divorce. She has to come to terms with her own character, and that is not going to happen by you being nice to her.

God bless,
Gimble

Hey,

I understand all of the anger and it is justified, but I wanted to ask you, have you discovered the reason for the affairs? Does she need attention? is she punishing you? does she want out of the marriage? Does she feel trapped by responsibility? is she greiving the dream of acting that she gave up and feels that director man can give that back to her? I know that you love her, and if there is to be a resolution she needs to come clean about the whys so that yall can deal with it. If she wont talk to you about it and just walks away from you and the marriage, then fight for the kids, they need to know that you are on their side and have their best interest at heart. Dont do anything rash, be still for awhile, and realize that you have a lot to decide and deal with.
j

Sounds like she was quoting from the Chapter 3 of 1st Fleshalonians.

Of course, California is loaded with messed up laws (sorry, but you al have a mess out there!!). Maybe one day soon, the people of California will take back their government and get rid of the silly and destructive laws. And make adultery a crime again (as it is here in Virginia <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />).

But, go to Gramns thread and look at that link I gave him for a E-book on father's divorce reference. I used this thing a lot during my deal. Sure, you live in the People's Republic of California. But that response from the attorney sounds like laziness. If you want custody, you will have to fight for it. Yes, the attorney is correct. She has the upperhand due to her involvement with the child and due to her having no Y chromosome. But.....

You can get custody. That attorney doesnt want to have to fight that hard. Especially when it doesnt mean that much more money for them. But if YOU do all of the hard work, you gather all the intel, you do what is needed...and hand it to the attorney, the attorney will use it.

Get the e-book. Read. If you are going to go down, go down swinging.

One other thing...if exposure doesnt matter...if it is believed that it wont change things with your wife, then expose. Why? Because it WILL change things with the OM. And it will change things with you. You will feel a whole heck of a lot better once the secrecy is over.

You and Gramn are on parallel tracks running the same way. Never accept defeat.

In His arms.

Two things:

1. I feel I should wait until I talk to Steve to expose. I will talk to him tues morn.

2. Plan B is seeming more like an inevitability all the time. But all of the data states that B is for those that are in affairs. After exposure, she may very well not be in an affair. Oh. I see. ANOTHER YEAR. I have to Plan A her after exposure - and fill the needs.

I sure wish I knew all of this during the first affair. I think it would have been more effective. Hey - wait - I did.
Nevermind.

J - Yes - she needs to do some soul searching. She has a lot she needs to think about. I might not be the one who needs to point out what she needs to ponder.

She has also created a problem for herself. Each evening she enjoys a glass of wine. Or a couple. Several evenings a week, she is on the edge of the limit. To the point she knows she should not drive. I will start documenting that in my journal. Is that something the courts consider in custody cases?

Mortar - I think exposure will end the affair. After that - I have no idea what WW will do.

I guess it might point out a character flaw to her. She might be receptive to counseling about it. But I am not the one to point out her issues.

I do not think I ever mentioned she is a master debater. Only in the last 4 years of our marriage was I able to make points that would hold up to her. But it sure frustrates the hell out of her. Then she gets mad - and mean.

MM - I will check out the book.

No one really knows. But the point is that you nor her will be able to find out until NC has been established.

I am not making any excuses for her behavior, it is clearly her issue. I have always felt that if you want to get rid of something you have to kill it at its source. You do not need to point out her problems to her, nor are you going to change her mind about things. I was hoping the questions would open up a conversation with maybe a counselor, or someone like that.

Document her drinking, and driving,- especially if she is around the children.

I am sorry that all of this is happening

You know WAT - I can hear your voice. I physically can hear your voice say these lines.

I would so love to flip the cover and press the button and watch fire rain from the sky. But I need to wait a few days. I listened to my conv. with Dr. H again, and he did say that normally he would say expose, but in this case he seems to discern that I have lost her.

If I push the button, I could loose her forever. If I can find a way to live while she spins out of control off her axis until she crashes and burns, then I can be there to pick up the pieces. That is my interpretation of what Dr. H says. He said I am looking at a much better chance in 5 years. God told me 1 more year a month ago or so, so maybe it will not be 5 years.

But he did not say that some anonymous person from the theatre community should call OMW and suggest she check up on him. Maybe they will....

But I will discuss it with Steve on Tuesday.

WW is tormented right now. I should just let her simmer, be smug and happy with the kids. Smile at her and let her writhe in her guilt. She hates guilt.

I do not wish this vindictively. I hope that someday she will come to her senses and have a moral paradigm shift. The simmering and guilt and unrest will help. As with all addicts, recovery is better when they have HIT ROCK BOTTOM.

I am not ignoring your advice, folks. I am just taking my time.

What have I got to loose.

WAT - MM - GIMBLE
You guys are great.
All of you - thanks for staying with me.

Boy do I need it.

Hang in there, pal. Until you talk to Steve, when in doubt about what to do at this stage, do nothing. Time is on your side.

WAT

Maybe he will have a heart attack.

Know what I mean?

WOW. I have never seen this before - but I just learned something about WW that I did not know.

I do not know the clinical name - but she always has to have a significant other. She moved in with a BF fresh out of HS. She came right out of a relationship just before she and I started dating. I have never heard of her having a time in her life that she was not attached. As soon as she gave up on us, she called an old friend she had not talked to for 20 yrs. AS SOON as she was through grieving A1, she began A2. Probably fininshed recovery the moment she started out with grandpa.

She has a book, has been laying around for a long time: Codependant no More Is it a clue?

I do not know what to do with this info - but it came to me while reading another post.

Any psycho-analysers out there??

(DUH!!)

If nothing else - someday I might be able to help her look at things.

Anybody gonna weigh in on how "co-dependance" is affecting this? Or are we all "co-dependant"?

good night.