I loved Noodle's posts. Miss her wisdom.

Alph, I can't believe he left without putting his hand in his pocket. Even if it was a stinky fiver. Take it if he offers - it will not affect the CSA thing. Thank God for the British Welfare System. Think I might be needing them one of these days soon. TT

Alph .... excellent !

He SHOULD see you cry ....

Must be hard for your WH to look in the mirror and see a toady reflection looking back at him when he's shaving.

I cannot imagine he feels like much of a man .... more of a toad. He flies off to Spain and his family goes on welfare.... and he's OK with this...

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

toady warts are going to pop up all over his face .... just you wait .... any day now

Pep

Well, I guess the bread incident wasn't such a plan A disaster after all.

I phoned WH's SIL last night. She, BIL and their DS3 were staying with MIL when WH and OW visited last weekend.

WH's SIL said that WH and OW have turned into a couple of party animals, smoking and drinking all the time. She said that one night, they went out to an expensive wine bar, and WH called MIL from there to ask her to leave them a bottle of wine out before she went to bed as the wine in the bar was too expensive!

Wh's SIL also mentioned the fact that OW seems to be a very 'strong' person, and appears to dominate WH somewhat. WH's SIL said that the atmosphere in the house when WH and OW were there was extremely awkward, and she was just so glad that her DS3 was there because he allowed the adults to focus of something else rather than WH and OW.

She said that everyone is just shocked and appalled by WH and OW's attitude to the whole thing, the way they just bulldoze over everyone else's feelings as if they were the only ones who mattered. WH's SIL said that OW behaves as if she was just WH's new girlfriend, rather than an OW who is responsible for breaking up a family and hurting children. But how else could she behave, I guess?

I feel very sorry for MIL - she told WH's SIL that she had to let OW come down and visit, otherwise she thought she'd never see her son again.

WH's SIL said it was like WH was a different person, and she didn't know him at all any more. Like an alien, in fact.

Alph.

Just Journalling...

Prozac is making me very sleepy. I might start taking it at night.

Another fun packed week for DD5! She is going to a friend's house for tea on Wednesday, and we have invited another friend over here for tea on Thursday.

DD12 has been out enjoying herself with friends today - it's a teacher training day at her school so she has the day off.

I'm meeting a friend in town tomorrow for coffee. I haven't seen her for ages. I remember about eight years ago she told me about when her partner left her for another woman - I was sympathetic, but I didn't understand how bad it must have really felt for her. You don't know how bad infidelity feels until it happens to you. I think a lot about BIL at the moment too - like John in SSA he found his wife in bed with her OM. His ex and the OM married after BIL and she divorced - marriage lasted less than five years and then he left her and their two kids for another woman!

My friend's ex and his OW are still together, though. He was the love of her life; she's never gotten over him really. She married again, but still has feelings for her ex. Thank goodness for plan B - I know I can get rid of those feelings for WH! She still has regular contact with him, which I couldn't imagine doing - they didn't even have children together. Seems to me this only serves to cause her more pain.

Alph.

A friend who is now divorced said that she'd make sure he had to pay her maintenance until she was 80. He had to pay her until either he died or she re-married....or some such weird clause. She said she'd remain single to spite him...I know it was revenge talk (although my friend was deadly serious....and she could do it to) but it made me feel quite sad that she'd want to keep her XWH in her life that long.

Prozac is doing something then!! Have a snooze and enjoy the relaxing break from dross and weird bike person. By the way....I meant to say about him....not only is he testing personal boundaries with you but he's also testing your physical boundary. If he is taking up half the back yard with his vehicles and is planning to add more you'd better make it clear that he needs to keep his stuff over his side!

Tell him in best hippy-chick mode that you plan to grow giant toadstools for the fairies to live under on your side <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ...

He'll stay away <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Still Journalling...

I thought that WH (when he was H) was the love of my life. I thought that there would never be anyone else for me. But, thinking about my friend (above), I realise that will only be true if I let it be.

I am less than halfway through my life. H may turn out to be the love of the rest of my life, but only if he returns from out of space and is willing to work as hard as me to restore our M. If not... I will move on.

My friend hasn't moved on, not really. She married her current H less than two years after the 'love of her life' left her, and wasn't happy with him for a long time (because he was the wrong man!) They seem to get on better now - I think she really tried to make it work (she's been married three times before, and I think she's feeling too old for another D). She says she does love her H now (tho she didn't before). I admire her in a way for being able to be friends with all her ex's - I know I couldn't do it.

Alph.

How did you know about my magic mushrooms? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

hehehehe hic

I hope they are red with white spots on them!

Since I've been hearing a little more about Omelette, I find myself thinking, over and over, that she encouraged WH to leave me.

I guess many single OW's do this. But WH's SIL and his mom both say that OW is a strong personality. I keep thinking that he's well under her thumb.

My R with WH wasn't like this. We were always very laid back with each other. Perhaps he was looking for someone with more strength than me. He's got it!

I know he is equally to blame for leaving, of course. More so, in fact, as he is my H and vowed to be faithful. OW owes me nothing. But I can't stop thinking about her manipulating things behind the scenes.

I wonder what she thinks about me...

Alph.

OW fears you Alph. you stand between her and her objective.
Other than that she couldn't give a [censored]. No OPs do about the BS.

b0b,

She has acheived her objective. She has my husband!

That's what she wanted, and she's got it.

Alph.

Alphin, I'm at the same place. OW is WH's secretary and they are probably living together. But what price do they pay?

My OW worked on WH for years before she got him to do something

Now she has him and she has lost all her family, he doesn't take her anywhere because they still keep their relationship secret <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I don't envy them. What futur will she have? she's 32, I don't think WH wants any more kids. He hates babies

he's going to be 50 next year and all he does is work.

I actually feel sorry for her.

Now, when I have done 1 year of plan B, I will get on with my life because I plan to be happy, with or without him. But since the general consensus is that it takes 2 years to get over a relationship I will take my time. It's been very hard for me to get to this point, so in a couple of years I hope to be ready for another one. No hurry, might as well do things properly. But I don't think that being friends with WH will ever work. I don't think it is logical to be friends with someone who hurt you so bad.

Hi, cc64,

How far into plan B are you now?

Alph.

6+ months and no contact at all. That has allowed me to recover. Sort of. If I even hear him mentioned too often I will feel depressed and if I see him it is even worse. But I have not talked to him or actually been face to face with him in 6 months.

Yesterday my MIL showed how affected she is by all this and that she;s still on my side. I went to a 103rd birthday party of a friend of WH's family to which only MIL and I had been invited!! and I went and held my head up high. I guess all our "summer friends" knew because nobody asked about WH but I felt OK. A big step.

During the first 4 months I think I cried every time I was alone, or in the bathroom. Now I haven't cried for a month. So I guess it's getting easier and I'm being able to detach.

In some ways I guess I'm lucky because WH takes his financial responsibbilities very seriously and is paying all the expenses and giving me an allowance. So I can't complain. I wonder if he has OW pay the bills?
She must love that.

Anyway, all this is extremely sad but since nothing is really happening as far as I know (and as it should be for a good plan B) I don't post very often.

I do read and maybe too much. About 1 week ago the guys at work have taken away my access to MB. At first I was angry but now I think that it will be good for me to get away from all this. It will help me concentrate on me and work.

Hasn't he tried to contact you at all? I'm sorry that I'm not familiar with your sitch.

Do you mind me asking a little about it - were you happy with your plan A, and did your WH leave before plan B or as part of it?

Thank you.

Alph.

I don't mind your asking.

plan A I was sort of numb. It lasted 2 months after d day but I had been doing a sort of plan A for a whole year before that because he had been acting so detached. I thought it was MLC and couldn't believe that he may be having an affair. I still don't know when it started. In march 2004 I asked him what was going on and he gave his favorite answer: I don't know. I asked if there was someone else involved and he denied it. I asked him if he wanted to separate and he answered he didn't know. So I continued watching and waiting. In september I was sus pecting the A and asked him again and he denied it but I got the same answer. But at that point he was acting as though he hated me and I asked him if he did and he said he didn't. The in october I confirmed the A, confronted him. He didn't say much except that it was "him" and that OW was "not important". He also said that he had lied to me only once, in spetember and not in march. Who knows...

He still didn't talk, would answer yes or no, and accepted that we would separate, but our dds had important exams coming up so I proposed we wait until december the 26th to tell them and he leave. and that's what happened: on the 26th I told him to tell them, gave him the letter and he left.

I think he felt and feels very guilty ...
At first he didn't see dds very often but a couple of months later he was calling them several times a day and goes out to dinner once or twice a week.

the A is still "secret". He has denied it to his family and his employees but I did my best exposing it. the funny thing is that OW doesn't seem to be interested in NOT keeping it secret, at least until now.

WH has never had any friends and did not have much of a relationship with his family, except thru me. So there aren't many people who might influence him.

In the end I think that he is his worst enemy. He's going to have to get out of this mess by himself, because he hasn't asked for any help.

Of course, I don't know much. He refused to talk. Very strange.

I wrote to Dr. Harley and he wasn't very optimistic. He told me to wait 2 years and by then I would either be divorced or back with WH. I think 2 years is too long.

BTW, you shouldn't consider my case typical

Thank you for that - I really appreciate it.

I thought that nothing could be worse than the vitriol that my WH spat at me when he left. Silence is much worse.

The worst thing about my situation is not knowing. Obviously I'm doing a separated plan A, but I know so little about WH and OW that any info I get becomes of major importance. I shouldn't let it get to me so much, but I do.

Plan B is letting go of these feelings. I will do plan B in the fall - I hope I make it that far.

Thank you.

Alph.

Alph, plan B really allows you to keep your feelings for Wh. Otherwise you might definitely lose them and then there is no going back.

If you read Dr. Harley or Penny Tuppy they both recommend not more than a few weeks of plan A (for betrayed women). What I see here on this board contradicts their advice and has been discussed on several threads.

Personally I believe a shorter plan A exposes you to less abuse and less fog, allows you to keep your dignity and recover your self esteem AND most importantly, WS's respect.

Those things should make recovery easier and better. When plan A goes on for a long time, I think WS lose respect for their BS, because after all it is a sort of enabling.

Dobson says something similar.

The main point of plan A is to show your WS that you are willing and committed to the marriage. but once you've proved that, I don't see much sense in going on with plan A if the affair continues. I couldn't stand it any longer. A continuing A is the ultimate disrespect!!!!!!!

Not the kind of relationship I have shared with WH nor would I want to. I followed MB principals and plans. By the book.

Of course it may not work.

cc46 -- part of your story is so similar to mine. (My story is back in page 3 of this forum, I think) Although WH has admitted but he's run away. He's not been home for 2 weeks. I know he's not staying with OW because she doesn't live alone. He's holing up at his friend's place.

It is also still "secret". He hasn't told him mom or brother. He refused to tell his friends. I've revealed it to one of his closest friends, but nothing's been done coz I doubt he'll have much impact.

I do not know if I'm still on Plan A, simply because we no longer see or speak to each other. I think I'm kinda in Plan B now.

My WH also REFUSED TO TALK!! He's in fact avoiding talking abt the matter to anone! I know on D-Day (it's been 6 weeks) and for a couple of weeks afterwards my WH was very guilty and remorseful. Then, he just avoided me at all times. I did send him a letter saying I need him to end the A, and if he does not, I need him to find an alt place to stay so I can heal and that we will not be contacting each other much more so long as the A is still going on.

So maybe your case is not so atypical after all, cc.

2 yrs... that's far too long for me. I would have done alot of things to move on by then.

PS: cc, since our snitch seems to be similar on many lines, do you mind if I PM you sometimes, whenever I need help?

~A