I need some advice. My story is that up unitl last year I thought I had a very happy marriage. I found out that my husband was having an emotional affair with a work colleague. Months later i made more discoveries - it was physical for 6 months and the whole thing was going on for over 3 years (been married 7).I was pregnant with our 2nd child when he started phoning her.

I was devastated. I started seeing a counsellor and working on my self-esteem which has helped me to evaluate things more clearly. I can see that we had been drifting apart for years and that there was a lot of work that needed doing. I tried hard to make things work.

Being in counselling has made me see that I let men disrespect me and that I have clung onto relationships when I should have let them go. I am wondering if I am doing the same here.

I as so confused about where our relationship is at. On a day to day basis it is fine but I have no real desire to go out with my husband on our own. When I woke up this morning I thought about what I would do when the kids are grown up and left home. The thought fills me with dread.

On the other hand, I am reluctant to break up the family in case I make a mistake.

Has anyone got any advice or thoughts on this. I feel like we have been trying for a year, nothing has changed. My husband argues that it's not a year because the truth only came out recently (his choice, not mine).

How do you decide that a relationship is not worth trying for anymore?

alwayslearning

Dear AL,

first of all: welcome to MB my dear.

Your question is not an easy one.
Your H has a point that it hasn't been a year, if you have had to deal with new important information. That more or less sets the recovery clock back to 0:00.

The very strong feelings that you experience now should not be something to base any future decisions on. In fact, at 6 months many BS feel things are worse again, for example. It will take at least 1 year to start feeling better, and 2 years to "get over it". That's a very rough timescale of course, everyone is different. I just mean that it's too soon to look at the M and make any decisions.

Since you have two children together, that's all the more reason to take the time necessary to heal the wounds of the A.

Ask yourself this:
- is your H supportive of you now?
- is your H meeting your emotional needs (EN) (or least working on that)?
- is there no contact (NC) (even if that means your H has to look for another job?)

Please get back to us.

When did you find out the entire truth? Has he ended all contact with the OW?

Thanks so much for your kind words. I am so confused. I know what you mean about the recovery being set back to zero but my feeling is that even once the affair was out, he did not change his behaviours. He kept lying and going behind my back. I think that if you state from the outset that you love your partner and never wanted to leave them, that you would be doing all the right things to get the marriage on track? He also continued to contact the OW secretly for 3 months after I found out. I just feel that he has no real empathy for how that would make me feel.

It has been 3 months since I found out the whole story and I feel more detached from him than I ever did. Sometimes he says he feel that I will never get over the affair. I feel it's not the affair that I will never get over, it's the realisation that the man I married has it in him to lie to my face without flinching. Once when I was away for a few days I begged him not to contact her and he promised me faithfully that he wouldn't. When I got home, I asked him again if he had and he said 'I swear I haven't'. Of course, I checked his phone bill and he had phoned her all the time I was away. How is it possible to live with someone who lies so easily?


I am so aware of the children bit. They love their father so much and would be devastated if he left. But what about me? I feel now that I too deserve a chance to be with someone I really love and trust.

In answer to your questions:
- my husband has always been supportive in many ways of my career, social life etc. He has never hampered me in anything I've ever wanted to do.
- He does not meet my emotional needs and if I'm honest, he hasn't done for years. He is a fairly distant, self-sufficient individual whereas I need a lot of warmth and physical affection. I feel so jealous when I see couples who are very loving with one another. He is also overbearing a lot of the time (not just with me) but at the moment I take it as a lack of respect for others' feelings.
- they still work together although they are not in regular contact. My husband has said he will look for another job but hasn't tried too hard. Admittedly, jobs like his are very difficult to find where we live. I am not overly concerned about this though as I think the affair is well and truly over.

I am just so fed up with this situaiton. It's been a year of misery and the thought of trying again and getting nowhere is hard to stomach.

Always learning

Hi,

I dragged the entire truth out of him 3 months. He slipped on some details (i.e. telling me it started the year after it did). I knew he was lying and said that if knew stuff and that if he continued to lie, it was over. He then told me about the physical stuff (for which I had no proof). The thing is, how do I know that he is not still lying and that the physical was more physical (if you know what I mean)?
- he still has to have work contact with the OW. But I really don't think anything is going on. I think she hates him now.

Alwayslearning

AL, the problem with them still being in contact is that he cannot ever withdraw from her that way. Dr Harley is adamant that all contact end even if it means moving to another state. And until he withdraws from her, he cannot draw to you; he will remain detached. Nor can you ever live in peace when you know that he is still seeing her every day. He could lie and tell you anything.

Is this OW married? Does her H know?

Will he send her a letter asking her to never ever contact him again? Harley recommends that the WS send a letter to the OP telling her that the affair was terrible mistake and to never ever contact him again. I wonder what his reaction to that would be? Here are some samples to give you an idea of what I mean. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=018918;p=0#000000

Harley article on never ever seeing an OP again: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

Dear Always Learning,

It's pretty standard for the WS to act the way your H did. WS are pretty stubborn in hanging on to the "what they don't know, won't hurt them" idea, even if that's total rubbish. So they think it's ok to (continue) doing things that you don't want them to do, as long as they don't tell you! Pretty childish - pretty standard for WS in the fog. Read up a bit here on MB and you'll learn that many BS have had to go through this lying/denying "you're paranoid" phase before the WS finally confesses or is found out.

Would your H be prepared now to be 100% transparent about where he is, what he does, whom he phones etc. ? That means giving you full access (passwords etc) to all his personal e-mail, phone records, visa statements etc. I think that's what you'll need to get your trust in him back, after the way he lied to you.

That your EN's are not being met is a big problem for the M, even without an A in the picture. Meeting your partner's ENs is also being "supportive", so it seems your H is not really that supportive when it means he has to really do something for you, not just let you "do what you want".

Are you meeting his EN's? If you are, and he agrees with that, it's about time your H cleans up his act and rolls up his sleeves. M is no one-way street.

It's good that you're in IC. Work on your self-esteem, then things will become more clear and you'll make the right decisions. Even though it's important for children to have a good home, that doesn't mean you have to put up with anything to accomplish that - an example you would also be setting for your children, by the way.

I don't think it would be a bad idea to read up on plan A. Try to be the best partner you can be. No love busting, although you can speak honestly about your feelings of course. If you should ever come to the point where you decide a divorce would be the best thing - it's better and easier to have a good relationship with the father of your children.

Wishing you all the best,
Brit from Belgium

Dear alwayslearning,

Welcome to MB’ers although I’m sorry you need to be here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> You’ve found the right place for help & support…. As you can see already, there are SO many good and caring people on these board who’ve experienced the same pain and devastation from betrayal than you and who will be able to help, support and advice you in your recovery and towards the rebuilding of your M should you decide to stay with your H.

Here are two threads from Former BS’s you will find helpful.

WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses

Bob's Newly Betrayed Spouse MB Toolkit

Blessings,
Suzet

Suzet and Melodylane,

thanks for the great links. They look really useful. Melody lane - he has already sent the OW an e-mail stating that there is to be no more contact. This happened naturally after he told her that there was to be no more contact and she sent him another e-mail that was firty and attempting to remind him of how close they had been. that's why she hates him now, I think.

AL

Dear Brit,

My husband appears to be 100% transparent now - I have access to phone bills, e-mail etc and he tells me when he sees her. Of course, I can't know what he feels when he sees her <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I agree that not getting my ENs is a big problem. In a way it has taken the affair for me to see that. My husband does not make me feel 'special'. I don't know if I am being over-optimistic here but I thought after the way he has treated me, he might go in for some grand gesture e.g. trip away for us, arrange nights out etc. He has arranged a night out once only. He keeps waiting until 'things are better'!

I probably didn't meet his ENs (otherwise he wouldn't have done it would he?). He has said that I didn't show any interest in his entrepreneurial side (he has wanted to work for himself since I met him, but this has never happened). I must admit, I find this very difficult as he has a full-time job plus works some nights/odd weekend. So I feel that I don't really want to support him having his fingers in anymore pies! Apart from that, I am unsure.

He has said that my negativity got to him and he felt like he was always trying to jolly things along (this is true, I am a fairly negative person - the irony of it is, I am even more so now! lol).

I will take your advice and read plan A. I have already stopped LB because I feel pretty detached anyway. I just find it difficult to do anything nice for him at the moment.

AL

AL, this is not necessarily true…probably his decision to had an A, had nothing to do with you at all… You see, A’s can also happen for other reasons than problems in the M & unmet EN’s... Your H must first dig deep inside himself to discover WHY he did what he did and what lead him to make these poor choices in the first place… Here is my take on it:

WS’s stray and become vulnerable to affairs because of the following reasons:
1) Unmet EN’s and/or problems in a M
2) Pure selfishness and/or a character flaws and/or lack of morals.
3) For reasons/ circumstances other than problems/issues within the M e.g. personal problems/issues and baggage a person bring into the marriage and/or personal weaknesses & vulnerabilities and/or failure of WS to protect themselves against their own weaknesses/vulnerabilities.
4) Combination of the above.

Your H needs to discover (through intense introspection and/or with the help of IC) what of the above is applicable on him because you can’t begin to fix something until you know what is the problem. After he has discovered the above, he needs to share these information with you and lastly but most importantly, he needs to take pro-active steps to correct the things that lead him to have the A (as I've outlined above) and/or put personal boundaries in place to protect himself from his own weaknesses/vulnerabilities. If your H don't do these things, he can become vulnerable to an A again…

The following is very true:

"Falling in love with someone other than your spouse is not caused by unmet needs in your marriage. It is caused by a failure to protect your own weaknesses." Steven W. Harley, M.S.

Once you know what you need to work on, most of the rest is up to him. Please read Surviving an affair along with His Needs/Her Needs.

Take the EN questionnaire and get to an MC ASAP. A good one. Better yet, call Steve H @ MB for some phone counseling. Steve is definitely worth the time. He will help you get a good plan and learn how to deal with the WS no matter what state of mind or lack thereof the WS may be.

take care,
L.

Dr Harley's words on contact with a former lover:

Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

Thanks to you all for your thoughts. The update is that we spent the weekend arguing and on Sunday I asked my WH to leave again. I didn't think he would but when I got back on Sunday night with the kids he was gone.

I am OK, just lonely I guess. On Sunday night when he called he was very upset and I felt really sorry for him. By last night he had switched into 'business mode' i.e. let me come back, I need another chance, I will change. I have heard this all before and nothing changed.

These were the things I wanted: a written apology; for him to see a counsellor; for him to arrange to take me out more often. He has never done any of it and has a million excuses why he can't. Usually it's because 'things are so bad between us, there is no point'.

Also, last night when I was clearing up, I found the time line that we had drawn up of his affair. I hadn't read all his bits properly before but under the period where he had the physical relationship he wrote 'Find her attractive/sensual, fun/carefree'. That made me so mad. Of course, she was fun and carefree - she wasn't struggling to keep a home together while her husband was off playing the field. I got really angry again and I don't want him to come back.

Am I making a mistake here? Are somethings not just too big to forgive? I feel that 3 years + of lying and deceiving me means that my WH is just not a very nice person. Any thoughts? I am at the end of the road now.

AL

AL, kicking him out was probably not the best thing to do. It causes damage to the marrriage that is almost as bad as the affair itself. I can understand that you need a break, but throwing him out is usually tantamount to throwing him into the arms of the OW. Now he feels like a victim and can feel entitled to an affair.

Your biggest issue continues to be that your H is still in contact with the OW. Your marriage does not have a chance until that changes because recovery will not take place.

So, instead of focusing on written apologies and date nights, I would focus on the biggest threat to your marriage: continued contact with the OW by working with her.

And please let your H come home. But stop fighting with him. You are making it hard for him to want to work on your marriage when you blast him with lovebusters and fight with him. That makes the OW look more attractive than you; do you realize that? If you want to save your marrage, I would cease and desist.

alwayslearning..

IF you are set on getting a divorce...then asking your husband to leave is probably a step in that direction...

IF you are here to work on rebuiling and creating a marriage in which you both feel cherished and supported by one another...then asking him to leave...is not really any part of the marriagebuilding plan...

Am I making a mistake here?

No one here can answer that.....
and while I am not a believer that every marriage should be save...if your question was have you done real rebuilding on creating the type of marriage you desire my answer would be no...

and while marriage builders offers no garuntees obviously...
it does offer usually the ability to walk away if that's where things land when all things are said and done....knowing you did do everything you could....and with little to no regrets....

so if you are here to really marriage builders...then you should get started....

ARK^^