Update.

Previous thread: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...084#Post2728912

Thanks to Losttranslation, Mulan, Melodylane and Miss M for your postings in the previous thread.

I will look into medication. I can see that Miss M is particularly fed up with me - can't blame you.

I have started a new thread for draft of a PLAN B
letter for, if and when, I will have the guts to give it to WH.

I based it on one of the letters in SAA.

(Note: the original is not in English, I am translating it and so reads awkward at some places)

----------------------------------------
Dear WH,

For all sorts of reasons, but mostly for my not knowing how to be there for you, how to love you the way you needed to be loved, the consequences have been, without intention, painful moments for both of us. For this I sincerely apologize especially because I know that this contributed in creating the circumstances where you chose to have an A. with OW.

However, I think that it's never too late to learn to do otherwise, to build a new life for us, get to know each other better, communicate our needs better, love each other better.

I am encouraged by the story of Michel and Michelle in the article: "Finding your way back" and our friends A. and A.: two couples that raised to the challenge and rechose each other.

But this is not possible for us as long as you are with OW.

To be honest, it is very painful for me to see you and speak to you while you are staying with OW.

So, unless necessary, I want to find a way to communicate between us (be it in writing or through one of our friends) and not see or speak to each other.

If you end your R. with OW, and wish a new start with me, let me know, and we will take the time to get to know each other better and find ways to make both of us happy.

I loved you when I married you and I still love you, and I am ready to learn how to be a better friend, lover and confidante to you.

-----------------------------
Any comments?

First: GOOD FOR YOU! This is the first step in protecting yourself and your children. The more you stand up for yourself, the better you will feel.

Here's my suggestion: Shorter is always better.

*****For all sorts of reasons, but mostly for my not knowing how to be there for you, how to love you the way you needed to be loved, the consequences have been, without intention, painful moments for both of us. For this I sincerely apologize especially because I know that this contributed in creating the circumstances where you chose to have an A. with OW.*****

NO - take this out. He will read this as you taking responsibility for his affair. NO!

Instead, I would suggest:

"You already know that your decision to have an affair with (OW's name) is very painful to me."

***However, I think that it's never too late to learn to do otherwise, to build a new life for us, get to know each other better, communicate our needs better, love each other better.***

This part is okay.

***I am encouraged by the story of Michel and Michelle in the article: "Finding your way back" and our friends A. and A.: two couples that raised to the challenge and rechose each other.***

I would take this out. I don't think he'll know what you're talking about. Anyway, this is about you and WH -- not anyone else, not even by example.

***But this is not possible for us as long as you are with OW.***

Good. And use her name. Is she married? (I forget.) If she is, call her "Mrs. Smith". If she's got a boyfriend or a fiance, call her "John's girlfriend" or "John's fiancee."

***To be honest, it is very painful for me to see you and speak to you while you are staying with OW.***

NEVER say stuff like "to be honest". Aren't you always honest?

***So, unless necessary, I want to find a way to communicate between us (be it in writing or through one of our friends) and not see or speak to each other.***

"So it is now necessary to communicate only in writing or through one of our friends, and not see or speak to each other until you have committed yourself 100% to our marriage and our family."

***If you end your R. with OW, and wish a new start with me, let me know, and we will take the time to get to know each other better and find ways to make both of us happy.***

"If you end your R. with OW, and wish a new start with me, let me know and I will discuss this with you."

***I loved you when I married you and I still love you, and I am ready to learn how to be a better friend, lover and confidante to you.***

"I loved you when I married you and I still love you. I am ready to learn how to be a better friend, lover and confidante to you once you have permanently ended your relationship with (OW)."

I did the editing to take out anything that might look like you are taking responsibility for HIS actions, and emphasized that *everything* depends on his getting rid of his girlfriend and committing himself to his marriage and his family instead.

Get some other opinions, too! I am just one person.
Again, Good For You!
Mulan

Luna,

Good for you!
I'll let the veteran members help you out with your Plan B letter. I'm working on my own right now. My first draft was one of anger and resentment...not a good Plan B letter, but I did let off some steam without venting on WH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Be strong and firm, don't give in. Stick to your priciples and don't sell yourself too cheap. Don't wait to suddenly, magically become strong, just do it.

Do look into AD therapy.

I will be gone over the weekend, so don't think I am ignoring you if I don't respond. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bumping this up for more responses . . .
Mulan

1 - I love you (add a few reasons you got married).
2 - I apologize for hurting you (example).
3 - Your affair hurts me. No contact because of this.
4 - You can contact through (friend) but ONLY for (list) reasons.
5 - I want to remain married & we CAN can work this out
6 - I love you

Keep to the point.

So, unless necessary, I want to find a way to communicate between us (be it in writing or through one of our friends) and not see or speak to each other.
Don't "find a way". Tell him exactly what the way will be.

If you end your R. with OW,
Not "if you end your R".
Make it "WHEN you end your affair". Call it what it is.

and wish a new start with me, let me know
Make it when he ends the affair, you will be willing to discuss the future with him. At this time, he probably doesn't even see a "new start" with you, so keep it simple.

Luna, I think Mulan and Chris had some excellent suggestions. The only thing I can add is a comment on this statement:

'So, unless necessary, I want to find a way to communicate between us (be it in writing or through one of our friends) and not see or speak to each other."

Like Chris said, FIND a way, dont' say you want to find a way. Set it up beforehand. And take out the part about "in writing." In writing is still contact.

Good job, Luna, you are heading in the right direction!

YEAH LUNA !!!!!!

Luna,

Just want you to know I am not angry at all. Just want to see you fight for your Marriage.

Glad to see you are getting there.

YEAH, LUNA!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Didn't want to see you 'cooperate' with the destruction of your marriage and family.

You are getting great advice from Mulan and Chris.

It is very good that you are standing up.

Listen up to the most excellent advice you are getting here.

Good job. Prayers for you and kids, family. You are WORTHY. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />Don't foget it.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Bumped for any final comments.

Good for you Luna!

I wish you find the peace you need to find yourself!

Update.

I have been away from the board for a while. I know some may want to know what's up with my situation.

I did give WS a Plan B letter, to make sure that if I did not want to see him, it was because it would hurt too much and not because I wanted to punish him, and I needed him to know that should he decide to end A, on my end, the door was open for discussion.

Being totally "dark" is proving to be difficult. I can confirm that "contact" with WS are followed by painful "moments". But, for the sake of the kids, I need to accept that it will happen, but compared to what I have gone through, I can say that it's liveable. I am certainly working in figuring out ways to have the least contact, because WS tries to find reasons to be in contact.

I can also confirm that this has given me enough distance to better "see" how WS's propositions are self-serving, to better see what I need to do.

In some quiet moments I still can't believe the big "switch" that is happening in my life, and how quickly WS seems to be moving on, and that after 20 years, it seems so easy to replace one with another. Enough to make me dizzy.

But at times the pain subsides enough to make room for , 'sadness', 'acceptance', 'anger', and "what do I need to do now" questions. I am slowly 'letting go' of a dream that for now is not possible and may never be: whatever happens will happen, and I try to move on with my life, try to deal with the boys as best as I can on my side.

More and more people are aware of the separation and give their support, but I can honestly say that I don't remember ever having felt the feelings of agony you all have been a witness to here on the board.

I was in love and still am in love with my H, but WS is no longer the same man, or I now try and see him as he really is.

I thank you all from the bottom of my heart for being there when I was at my "lowest", and for giving me as best as you could your guidance, your hope, your support, and hopefully will continue to do so, because I really don't know what the future holds for me. I am hoping that the worst has passed. But in my moments of despair, I could count on you all - a lot can't and won't play that role - because, if nothing else, just being there can make a difference.

It's good to have you back! You should try to keep posting, it helps keep you alive and focused.

I have no doubt that youlove your husband. I do too, but I just don't recognize my husband in the man WH has become. I have now been in plan B 6 months and each day I feel better. Not totally well yet but I feel I am on he right track to become a better person and not a bitter person which is a far better choice. I have MB to thank for this.

Keep us updated. We care.

luna,

I'm glad you're back!

Going dark and totally cutting off your interaction with WH is essential to the success of Plan B. Who have you assigned as intermediary? You can prearrange regular visiting times where he comes to pick up the kids. You can send them out the door --- he should wait in the car. Financial or legal stuff can go through a lawyer.
You NEED to go cold-turkey.

A further update - to see how theory and reality sometime mix.

First weekend of June, as we were ready to leave to spend weekend outside city, WH tells me that sometime during the weekend he would like to announce to the boys that we were going to separate, and that he would no longer be living at the house.

I wasn't expecting it. I felt trapped. I felt WH had set the scene (he's in theatre) and he was giving me a role to play and I just needed to follow the script. I really couldn't see myself spending the weekend acting as if everything was fine when my world was being torn apart.

I told him that I would not be going out of the city. It was not to avoid telling the boys. If that's what he wanted to do, we would sit down when back from the weekend and tell the boys. I put a call to one of our friends and just asked if I could spend the weekend with her. I was a total wreck. It did me good.

When they came back, we sat the boys down and told them that Dad was no longer going to live with us. He was going to get a place of his own, and they would be staying one week each with Mom and Dad. My 15 yr old probably saw it coming more than my 9 yr old. Both boys have friends that have parents separated and so I guess in their mind they were going to be doing what their friends are already doing. I think my 15 yr old knew it was not going to that easy, it didn't it my 9 yr old yet. He wanted to know where dad's house was. He needed to find one. WH did not come home Monday night. He told the kids he could be reached by his cell no. anytime.

That first week was terrible. There was a lot of in and out, but WH did not sleep at the house (guess where he went?) Since he did not yet have an apt, and I needed a break, and I wanted him to spend time with the boys, so, the second week I went to stay with a friend and he stayed at home with the kids. WH may want to separate from me, but he says he wants to take "responsibility" for the boys. I know I could have said, let's wait until you get an apt before taking a week with the boys and just "babysit" sometimes. But, I preferred sticking with the one-week-each plan, and besides, there were repairs that he needed to finish at the house, this would give him a chance to do it. Some of his guilt translates in doing more around the house, or is it trying to finish up so that the page can be turned? It doesn't matter. I know where we live I may not be able to do the maintenance and financially I don't think we will be able to keep the house, but I don't have the answers to all my questions, and I really don't know where I will be 6 months down the road.

Summary of some exchanges with WH. He suggested that he could "repossess" one of the apts we rent, but because of giving notice, etc. this would not be possible before a year, meaning: can you rent a very small apt for you temporarily and do one week each with the boys at home (because my week out I can stay with OW).

WH: What do you want? That the boys or you live out of a suitcase?

ME: I don't prefer either. Remember, I don't want a separation. Besides, they weren't a consideration before, why are they now?

WH: We need to take into account the finances.

ME: They weren't a consideration before, why are they now?

So, obviously, I did not agree to that arrangement. I would rather sell the house if we need to rather than agree to one year in and out a week.

WH: Well, I won't find a place before a month. OW is going away for a month, so, for the next month I could take the kids at her place?

I thought WH was trying to manipulate me. He knew I wasn't expecting the OW, or her place, to be in the picture so soon in the boys lives.

After thinking, I got back to him about it: If taking the boys to OW's apt while she was away was his solution, fine. (I would really like a routine set a bit before the boys go back to school in September.) If WH's intention was to introduce OW in boys' lives sooner than later, so be it. WH actually did not think it was such a good idea anymore. He was going to look for an apt.

I also wondered: OW is going away for a month? What's up with that? But I promised myself I would not ask any details about the OW.

WH also already asked to switch days, cover for him, etc. (I remember a friend of mine telling me that once early on in her separation ex-H asked something similar. She found out later that it was to take th current lover on vacation and was friend mad.) So, I thought of asking what was it for: Well, OW was leaving for a month and he wanted to spend last days with her. My answer: let's limit "coverage" to emergencies and work reasons. The nerve of him!

Anyway, when WH is with the boys, I am trying to go out with friends, reading, and just taking it easy.

It was after the first two weeks, being in regular contact with WH, while knowing that he was with OW, that I decided to give him PLAN B letter. It was getting too hard emotionally. It felt I was somehow saying the arrangement was OK, when it was far from it.

I set up a "messages exchange" book re facts/arrangements re boys, etc. The telephone answering machine now states where to leave messages for WH. For now, whoever has the kids, has the car. There is still some contact and I am trying to find ways where NC will be reached. No lawyers involved yet. We both make about the same amount of money. We are co-owners of the house. Personally, I will give myself some time to think. I have been told that financial decisions made when too emotional are rarely good. There will be only one question to answer eventually: to sell or not to sell the house? I figure it will become self-evident soon, and if I can stay 6 months more, it could be good (as too much is already going on), or bad - memories and emptiness of a family that no longer is.

So, here I am. I don't have the boys this week. I have a four-day weekend, and I am forced to figure out what I will do with myself. I have never been faced with this much unknown since I was in my twenties.

I am sorry. This is a far too long an update.

I know that there are a lot of "holes" in how things are progressing. I am trying my best.

In one of our last "serious" conversations, for what it was worth:

WH: I have moved on, I don't want you to think that there is some hope for us getting back together.

ME: Well, if you felt 'trapped' in our M that should no longer be the case. Do you have a problem with keeping the door open? You said yourself you didn't know how future will work out with OW? Why burn bridges?

WH: No, I guess not. But, I don't want you to wait for me.

ME: I am not. But, let me know if things don't work out with OW.

WH: I don't ever want to consider "going back" to our M.

ME: It would not be "going back". It would be going forward and learning to how to have a better M.

WH: I don't want to go back and open up old "wounds".

ME: It would be to "heal" old wounds.

WH: But, I am in love with someone else.

ME: That's why it's not possible now.

With this, and with Plan B letter, I have said to WH all I needed to say. I need to put my energies now to move forward by myself. Some of my biggest challenges I can see already: how to get used to not seeing boys for a week, triggers of images of families and couples, seeing WH, the lonileness.

But just writing this, I see I big difference to what I was writing a few months ago.

I told my mom that I am expecting the next year (at least) to be really tough. I am trying to get ready for the long haul.

I saw my doctor. No AD needed right now. I have pills to help when needed for anxiety and sleep. But, not using them right now. No need to, I feel. The moments of acute pain, are just that - moments. I stick them out by breathing in deeply or if a friend is around, I will ask for a hug.

Thanks again to all for caring.

I promise to update more regularly (and not subject you to such long updates).

Luna,

I haven't much I can say to you except that plan B does get better. I should know, I have been at it 6 months and although any mention of WH still hurts terribly I cant imagine surviving this long if we had had contact.

After giving him the PBL, are you still in contact?

cc46,

Thanks for your support.

There is supposed to be N/C. Unfortunately, WH is continuing to find reasons to be in contact, especially re kids and finances, and I am working hard on setting in place arrangements to avoid all contact, but it's not easy.

I can confirm that each contact does cost emotionally, so I am eager to get to where none is necessary (but, it is true that with kids and finances, until suitable arrangements are made, it's hard to avoid). But, I am limiting things to facts related to kids and finances, and no, WH does not have to know what I do with my free time and who I see (as he attempts to find out!)

I am definitely at a better place than I was a few months ago, and those acute "moments" of pain, etc. etc. are getting fewer and fewer, and I am continually trying to find ways to shorten them (example, listen to music, call a friend, read). The objective is, as one of my friends put it, to reduce WH's amount of "thought space" I am used to giving him (less and less emphasis about what he might be doing, wanting, thinking, etc.) You cannot believe how much time I devoted to thinking about HIM! It does take some effort, but slowly I can "switch" HIM off from my mind. I try to be kind and tell myself that breaking a 20-yr habit of thinking about the "other" will take time.

The hardest thing to admit/accept is that it is not where I wanted to be, but I need to figure out what to do inspite of it.

But besides the N/C with WH, I know that the next biggest challenge after that will be numerous "triggers" I will need to confront. I am taking them "in" one at a time.

I am also having to deal with a sense of "failure", because I put great value on working keeping together a "family", and now I can't seem to. If anyone can suggest anything on a new take about that, I would appreciate it.

TO MULAN:

If by any chance you are reading posts, just wanted you to know that I think about you, and will wait to hear from you when you are ready to post).

Luna,

without contact you have a chance to heal. I know I could not bear contact and I still can't but otherwise I'm doing fine. Even triggers are not important.

But unless I'm busy I'm thinking of WH, so I guess I'm not over him or detached enough.

cc46, Thanks for replying. I think all of us here want to find a way to somehow "move on" with our lives. I am also seeing that the path can be very different for each one of us.

I would appreciate comments, because I am not sure of what to make of it.

It has been about one month since WH has officially moved out (to stay with OW). He has now supposedly his own apt. to have the boys over (one week each). Have given him a PBL (not to see each other, speak to each other if necessary, door open if WH ends A with OW).

But since nothing is ever perfect, I spoke with WH last night (other that "facts").

Know that OW is out of town for 1 month. WH had been drinking, and was "speaking his mind". He no longer was speaking about the OW, no longer telling me he had found his "soulmate", but about how much he loved me and the boys and how special I was. He had a rough meeting that day and had tried to reach me in the afternoon but couldn't (because he needed to talk to me about it). I asked him if he was now happy (being out of the house, with supposedly no obstacles to be with OW), and all he said was that it was a "transition period".

One of my needs is wanting to settle the finances between us as much as possible (and get some control over expenses, no need to count on WH, get on with my life, etc.) One of WH's needs seems to be, besides moving out, is to change as little as possible in the "structure" of running a family.

My reading of the situation is: WH has made the one change that suits him (in order to be able to be with OW, and the one direct consequence: taking care of the boys separately), but other than that, his needs are: to change nothing else.

This is where I need to decide: do I push to have WH face the "reality" of a separation all the way, move him to his "uncomfort zone" (as one of my friends says, that's what a separation is all about, "separating"), like having a mediation meeting informing us what a "legal separation" involves, and how assets will be evaluated and divided, etc. etc., or should I wait it "out" before insisting that we iron out the "finances"?

Also, now that WH is out of the house, I am actually more comfortable "talking" to him and saying what I need to say over the phone - a little bit like "what have I got to lose?" attitude. But, on one thing I will not budge: I don't want to be at "our" house together, because it reminds me of our "old" M, which no longer is, and which I no longer would want. I now realize that it is now that I am in a better position to do a PLAN A. When we first met, we talked a lot on the phone. Speaking to him last night over the phone brought all that back.

So, this is my question folks. WH for now is not asking to come back, and I would not want him back home unless he ends A with OW. But, even with him being out of the house, he needs to be coming to do repairs, etc. he got an apt. one block away, and so, if I wanted to, I would have numerous occasions to do PLAN A stuff - because, I now realize, it's the OW that might not like how much the "family" takes up of boyfriend's life, and A has no longer the "forbidden fruit" element. The roles seem to have been reversed. OR, will I be "enabling" cakeeating?

One of my needs if I need to "get on with my lfe" is to settle "finances" (know what's mine, what's his), and so
I am now reading: "How to separate without breaking everything". Bottom line - am I going too fast? Should I now be giving PLAN A a real shot? I am just reading into this what I want to see? Is it me needing a "reality check"? If so, I can certainly count on some of you.

P.S. I think basically what my question is: how will the OW feel about WH getting along so well with W, and spending so much time at her house? Or, will OW settle for whatever she can get? Should I "hold off" until I check this out, or am I wasting my time, and putting my "life" a little bit on hold for nothing? Is the cycle of the A going for a "long" haul, or is it a "short" haul? It's hard to tell right now. Does the fact that he is not moving in with her make it a "long" haul because they would be avoiding the "daily" routine? or a "short" haul if it's not what OW wants?

Or, am I up to my "tricks" again to avoid doing what I need to do?

Today, I must admit, I don't see things very clearly. I am certain of one thing: I still love my H (not WH).