I am bumping this for comments, just in case it was missed.

If this is a rollercoaster ride, I am seeing a 'BAD TURN' coming up because starting next week, it will be the first week the boys will be out of the house (dad has apt), and the first week I will be by myself at 'home' (I don't think I will be 'home' much!

God, the pain is unbearable sometime, and just being here, facing the computer, even if I have nothing to say right now, is going to have to do to get me past one of these 'unbearable moments'.... I am now counting.... I am thinking to myself: you are at a place where you know many here have been, proof enough that it can be done, you will get past this! I guess it's reality hitting expectations. One day I expected the boys to 'leave' home, but never under these circumstances, and never so soon.

Well, confirming that 'unbearable moments' can actually last longer than 'moments', as if you all didn't know!

I will have to try and do something else. See you all later.

My mom will be coming to visit this week. The first time we will be seeing each other since I am "separated". Another "milestone" to overcome. GOOOOOD!

It's a case of a mom, who loves her daughter, and needs to see for herself how she is doing. I am going to have to be strong for me and for her, and of course, for the boys!

I need to say it to someone, so, you are all the lucky ones. Between you and I, while I may be falling apart inside, I will find somewhere the strength to make the effort TO BE otherwise with those I love: my mom and the boys, because they deserve it. But, I expect to have my "moments", and that's when I will have ALL OF YOU on my mind, cheering me on, because you've been there, done that, and I don't hide from you all.

I am sorry to say, right now, my emotions are all of the place! But, I will be calming down. I have to.

Luna,

Although you are not doing all this by the book, it is obvious that you are gaining strength each and every day.

While you are in Plan B, you need to stay as DARK as possible. Let the OW try to fill ALL of WH's needs. You fill NONE of them. Keep your communications short and to the point. You also need to set a time limit on how long you are willing to endure all of this.

It may be time to seek legal help to get yourself and your kids protected in case WH decides to "move on". It may also serve as a "wake-up" call to WH that things could be changing in your mind, regarding his desire to keep an OW and a W at the same time.

Keep chipping away at this, and continue to believe in yourself. You will emerge from all this a much stronger person, and no offense intended, you needed to become a stronger person. You seem to have been entirely co-dependent on your H, and when he "left", you were lost.

It seems you are now learning to make your own way! Cudos!

SD

Dear SD,

Thanks for your reply.

quote:----------------------------------------------------
Let the OW try to fill ALL of WH's needs. You fill NONE of them. Keep your communications short and to the point. You also need to set a time limit on how long you are willing to endure all of this.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Is it because PLAN A actions at this time would probably send the message to WH that "cake eating" and "fence sitting" is acceptable to me? and then I would be stuck with that?

I guess I shouldn't let WH (and some friends, too) get to me when I am given the impression that I am being "silly" by, like, not wanting our paths to "cross" when boys exchange "hands".

So, you are for a "wake-up" and if WH wants to separate, well let's "separate".

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
...and no offense intended, you needed to become a stronger person...
-----------------------------------------------------------

No offense taken! Thanks. You are actually being kind in saying I was "lost".

My biggest challenge, I think, is how to move forward without investing energy into the "hope" of a reconciliation. It's not up to me anymore. The condition has been set and is clear "no OW in the picture".

I need to go home and start filling the "void" left by WH, and yes, accept the fact that if I do, there may not be any room, if and when WH has a change of heart. That's what's hard to let go of.

Plan A is you putting your Taker completely on the shelf and your Giver in play at 150% trying to meet all of your WH's EN's.

Plan B is withdrawing ALL of your Giving, and letting OW try to fill ALL of his needs.

It appears that your H has effectively "separated" from you, at least physically. In order to fully protect yourself financially, to ensure your WH KNOWS how much fulfilling this fantasy is going to "cost" him, you may want to seek legal counsel, so that WH has to get "used" to child care costs, and the expense of "running" two households. I don't know the laws in your state, but wouldn't it be a good idea to at least consult to find out what your rights are, and how the chips might fall if you were to file for D. Looking into filing does NOT mean you are giving up, it only means you are doing the homework to protect yourself and your kids.

I don't know if or how actually filing for D would affect your WH. Perhaps others may have some input. In some cases, it is the final slap upside the head of the WS that it's time to poop or get outta the commode.

Did you ever fully expose the A to their superiors at work? His parents? Church and/or family members who could be an influence on his "thinking"? You didn't have the resolve to do that earlier on, as I recall. You might want to read Gramn's thread, in it's entirety, because there is a WEALTH of information there that you might find helpful. Exposure is still your greatest weapon for bringing about the ending of the Affair.

Keep working on you, and fill the void with activities with your kids, and things that are mentally "healthy" for yourself. Exercise is supposed to be an excellent release from the stress of all this. Paint rooms, redecorate your house, garden, clean closets, etc. Stay OUT of the Drama your WH is creating.

STAY DARK!

Best wishes,
SD

SD: Thanks for posting.

quote---------------------------------------------------
Plan A is you putting your Taker completely on the shelf and your Giver in play at 150% trying to meet all of your WH's EN's.

Plan B is withdrawing ALL of your Giving, and letting OW try to fill ALL of his needs.
--------------------------------------------------------

I think what's hard about PLAN B is that the Taker at some level remains on the shelf, too. When a BS still loves WS, the Taker may be prepared to take 'crumps' from the WS at the detriment of the WS in the longrun. So, PLAN B looks more like: the Taker can't take, the Giver can't give. But, since this doesn't make sense, I am concluding that in PLAN B the Taker needs to learn to take from somewhere else, and the Giver needs to learn to give somewhere else, too.

quote---------------------------------------------------
I don't know if or how actually filing for D would affect your WH. Perhaps others may have some input. In some cases, it is the final slap upside the head of the WS that it's time to poop or get outta the commode.
---------------------------------------------------------

I am not sure where I stand on this issue. Because D discussions would include making some major financial decisions (we are coowners of two properties), some are advising to wait a bit and not make major decisions now as they would be based on 'emotions', rather than what's best financially. So, I think I might give myself 6 months before making 'financial' decisions, but this does mean keeping 'ties' with WS at some level. So, I am not sure what to do yet re D filing. But, maybe getting the info. about the possible financial options we have should be helpful.

quote-------------------------------------------------
Did you fully expose the A to their superiors at work? His parents? Church and/or family members who could be an influence on his "thinking"?
----------------------------------------------------------
Superiors at work know. Not all of members of his family probably know, it's a big family, but both his sister and brother with whom he keeps in touch know (but, WS is keeping a distance from them!) Most of our close friends know. I guess indirectly our neighbours know (WS and I are not in house at the same time).

On another note: I know for a fact that I have been putting myself 'last' on my list of things to do. I need to figure out how to get back in touch with myself. Any suggestions? I am not comfortable paying cost of IC until finances are settled and know better if I can afford it.

Any book suggestions? I am remembering Dr. Phil's SELF MATTERS and wondered if any of you read it and found it useful, or other books.

Trying to move on.

On another note: I know for a fact that I have been putting myself 'last' on my list of things to do. I need to figure out how to get back in touch with myself. Any suggestions? I am not comfortable paying cost of IC until finances are settled and know better if I can afford it.

Isn't that a bit like waiting to call the fire department until the house burns down? I think IC could be very good for you, given your somewhat meek nature. However, it is important to note that most counselors will "try to make you feel good through a divorce", rather than help you save a marriage. Few counselors follow the MB philosophy, sadly.

You say their superiors at school know about the A. Did they hear it from you, or is this what your WH says, or do you assume it is common knowledge. I think you should PERSONALLY inform all the people who you believe can assist you in saving your marriage, in order to make sure the EXPOSURE is complete. You know by now you cannot take for granted anything your H has told you.

Did you read Gramn's thread? I takes you through the whole process, but at a much quicker rate than you are taking. You will learn a lot, and get reviews of what you've already learned.

I'm gone for the weekend, but you keep fighting and learning and growing. Do it all for Luna and the kids. Stay dark, and keep necessary interactions with WH totally businesslike and formal. Get yourself an IC, or meet with a pastor or priest who might not cost you any money. Stay proactive, and don't let this "rule" your thoughts or your life.

I'll check in on you Monday... have a great weekend!

SD

Luna,

I can't give you much advice except that I'm further along in the MB plans on the path that you are probably going to have to take.

I still haven't found a better solution than what Dr. Harley says: stay dark, work on YOURSELF and your children. You will end up a better person whether with or without you H, but that is not your decision. So there is nothing you can do about it. Why waste time? Why not work on yourself? It is important for your children that you be your best, and not somebody they cannot count on.

I am surprised everyday by my dds and how well they have managed to carry on with their lives in spite of the separation, the total destruction of the "family" structure and the fact that OW goes to school with one of them.

They hate her and refuse to even ackowledge her existance. Luckily WH has not even suggested it.

Anyway, all I can say is believe in yourself. You can. You should. And be proud of yourself.

To SD:

Thanks for your reply.

quote-----------------------------------------------------
It is important to note that most counselors will "try to make you feel good through a divorce", rather than help you save a marriage. Few counselors follow the MB philosophy, sadly.
----------------------------------------------------------

It's what I am worried about. Also, I have consulted an IC for the last two months. After a while, I feel I am going in circles. Maybe I need to "shop around".

Any comments re Dr. Phil's SELF MATTERS books/steps? Other good resource books?

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
You say their superiors at school know about the A. Did they hear it from you, or is this what your WH says, or do you assume it is common knowledge. I think you should PERSONALLY inform all the people who you believe can assist you in saving your marriage, in order to make sure the EXPOSURE is complete. You know by now you cannot take for granted anything your H has told you.
----------------------------------------------------------

EXPOSURE is as complete as it could be. Some people are sympathetic towards me but suggest I 'accept' situation, others, although may object to 'method' of separation, actually support 'choice' to leave a M if partner wants to (note that our social environment is tolerant of these situations - we were more or less considered dinosaurs for staying married so long!)

quote:----------------------------------------------------
Did you read Gramn's thread? I takes you through the whole process, but at a much quicker rate than you are taking. You will learn a lot, and get reviews of what you've already learned.
-----------------------------------------------------------

I have started to read it, but it's quite long and have not yet finished.

Thanks for keeping "track" of me.

I had my mom over for the weekend. I really enjoyed her visit. WH must have found it hard not to see her because he really likes my mom. I am hoping to work on a budget based on what I earn so I will feel less "fearful" of future finances.

SD: if you didn't pick it up, a separation for WH meant he and I were 'sharing' our house: he was out one week, I was out one week (he was with OW I was a friends' guest!). WH suggested we do this for a year (until notice could be given and he could take an appt, for financial reasons, for the kids, etc. etc.) I insisted that I would not do this for a year, so, he got an appt and I am now looking forward to staying put at our house, and the boys will doing one week with dad, one week with mom (I am glad he got his own appt. because initially he suggested boys would be staying at OW's appt.!) Still don't know if I will be able to afford to stay at house, but I am trying not to decide too quickly what I will do. I am still working on 'stabilizing' myself emotionally before taking major decisions.

When WH finds reasons to contact me, he has attempted to know if "I still had hopes for a reconciliation, because he really wishes for me to move on and be happy and find someone that will care for me". I repeat what was in PBL: yes, if A with OW ended, I would be prepared to meet and discuss future with him".

But, I have to admit, step by step, as we are slowly 'separating' households, expenses, taking care of the kids, even I am having a hard time seeing how after doing it all, either of us would want to risk considering a "reconciliation", especially now that I am in PLAN B and I don't see him at all - WH is starting to feel like someone I knew a very long long time ago - it is such a strange feeling. But, as I said to WH: we are in "movement" and one never knows what's ahead.

But, the "triggers" I am having a very hard time with, and all the "first-timers" as separated (meeting friends, going to cinema, shopping, etc. etc). I just try to breath deeply then.


To CC46:

Thanks to you, too, for replying.

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
I can't give you much advice except that I'm further along in the MB plans on the path that you are probably going to have to take.
-----------------------------------------------------------

I would certainly like to follow your path. What is your thread, cc46?

quote:-----------------------------------------------
I am surprised everyday by my dds and how well they have managed to carry on with their lives in spite of the separation, the total destruction of the "family" structure and the fact that OW goes to school with one of them.
-------------------------------------------------------

Boy, that must be hard on them, cc46! In my case, the OW is a teacher at my youngest boy's school! WH works there, too. There are a lot of kids with "separated" parents, but none where your dad and the OW actually work at your school. I am also trying to prepare myself for September, when I will need to pick up my boy. I will try not to think about some of the "gossip" that will be happening there.

Overall, I am feeling kind of 'strange' these days. Being "alone" takes some getting used to when you've been a couple for over 20 years.

Luna,

you sound so much better!!!

It feels strange at first but then one day comes when you realized you haven't felt lonely and desperate for a couple of days, or you haven't cried and things start to feel better. One day about a month ago, 5 months into plan B, I realized I hadn't cried for a few days and since then I haven't cried anymore. I feel calmer.
True we are settling down into a new kind of life. I'm stll sad but now I begin to see all this as if it were like a hurricane or rather a Tsunami. It's not my fault and I couldn't stop it. The past and the memories remain but the present and the futur are different, but not necessarily bad and they might even be better than the past.

This is a new stage in my life. I am now officially an adult, my children are (nearly) grown up and quite independant, so I have to let them go. I have just got a very interesting job and I have now learned a whole lot of stuff from MB. Life can be good if I want it to be.

We must always make the best we can. believe me, I am an impatient person and deciding to be in plan B for a year is hard. But it is also having a plan to stick to. The rules are simple: do you best in your life for you and your children until the period is over. Then the nightmare will be over and I can rest assured that I will have done my best and with the best intentions.
As I said, it's like a Tsunami. It takes away everything you had, leaves nothing except memories. But you can't just sit down and feel sorry for yourself. You have to rebuild and maybe life will be better than before,eventually. Depends on you.

My thread is probably on the 4th or 5th page now. I haven't much to update.

Hi cc46,

Thanks for your reply.

quote:---------------------------------------------------
I am an impatient person and deciding to be in plan B for a year is hard. But it is also having a plan to stick to. The rules are simple: do you best in your life for you and your children until the period is over. Then the nightmare will be over and I can rest assured that I will have done my best and with the best intentions.
---------------------------------------------------------

cc46: What are you planning to do after the one year is over?

In my case, I am realizing that WH intentions are to somehow find reasons to maintain "ties" with me as much as he can rather than reduce them (now that he has moved out and has option to see OW). So, I am forced to do what I least do best: stand my ground, while at the same time, for the sake of the kids, somehow maintain a "good relationship" with him.

So, when WH makes propositions re kids as if life goes on as usual, rather than consider that our family's world has just been turned upside down, and I feel like x!??? him, I need to learn to stay calm, reply with respect and say what I need to say!

My little one told me yesterday: why are you separating? I didn't do anything! All I could say is: you're right, you didn't do anything, and we're not separating because of anything you did. And as often as I can, I tell him how much I love him.

I know that my PLAN B is not as effective as it could be, but I am detaching, I am in less pain, I am putting in place mechanisms to reduce contact/dependance on WH, and WH is realizing that my position does not change: we won't be chummy chummy anytime soon with OW in the picture.

I will be "out of the house" one last week (while WH gets himself settled in appt), and I am both looking forward to staying "put" in my house but also expect it to be a trigger: to be at the ex-family home alone for the first time while boys are at dad's - this I expect will hurt and the consequences of my new reality to be more real - I may be out often at night or have friends over to help me out with this "first-time" event.

I expect "first-timers" to be a constant challenge for me for quite a while.

I have to admit, I am starting to have "moments" where I am feeling just "fine", and I haven't cried since - I can't remember when! I don't know if this is only because I am choosing to be "numb" in order not to feel the pain anymore and face reality, or because I am actually starting to feel "fine" sometimes. All this is new "emotional" territory for me.

Update.

WH is out of town for a few days. Trigger: before, WH used to call every night to catch up on how things were at the house. Not so anymore. I suppose this "trigger" works both ways. Because these exchanges were always fun, I can't imagine WH not missing "calling his family".

What am I feeling? I am feeling very very sad, and I miss my H (not WH).

You are doing fine!

It does et easier, at some point. You just have to focus on the positive things. Not having to share the bathroom,eating what you want when you want, see friends go to the movies etc. Essentially you have to GET A LIFE of your own. And that can be fun.

You ask what I will do at 1 year? Well it's sure to be an emotional time for all as it will also be Xmas. I don't really know, because I don't feel like making divorce easy for him.

What I may do is sell the house and find a better place to live for me. Safer and easier to manage than this house.

But I still have 5 monthsto go so I don't plan many things yet.

Do nice things for yourself.

To cc46:

Thanks for the support and encouragement.

I am also not sure of what to do about where I live, because for me and the boys it "feels" way too big, or maybe it's just the "void" with WH no longer there.

But like you, I don't think I will make a decision about it right now. Too many emotional issues to deal with. Maybe in a year's time? Right now, my feelings change too much.

I am trying to think of how to best deal with the triggers, because there are so many. How about: for each trigger, I will be forced to think of something "pleasant" or "positive" that has come out of this.

Update.

Weekends were 'family activity' time. WH is with the boys this weekend.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised if I am having a bit of difficulty getting through it, and organizing 'myself' with the void.

WH and I share expenses. I am concerned about finances, he is less concerned about finances. We need to figure out how both will be OK with arrangements: how I will be less concerned about finances, and he would a lit bit more concerned about finances.

The challenge of: How to POJA with WH.

Luna if you are in plan B there is no POJA, because WH is not in the picture. Think of yourself and what you can do for you and the boys. Pretend WH does not exist.

cc46,

I know I should act as if WH is not in the picture. I am trying to set in place arrangements so that I can do that.

WH last week asked to change days I had boys for 'work reasons' and I said yes. He just asked me to change again a weekend, and this time I said I wasn't sure I wanted to (because I figured it was to accommodate seeing OW) and I am less keen about doing it for that. I feel terrible now because I always accomodated WH before. But I don't want him to think I will change schedule just because he asks.

WH also suggested that rather than do one week each we consider 2 weeks each. I said let's continue one week each for now because I thought 2 weeks too long, both looking after boys and missing boys.

WH wasn't too happy. He also needed to tell me that moving into his apt was going to take a little longer, that boys would not be so happy because at his apt they would not have everything they have at home. I agreed with him. I think 'reality' is setting in and it's less of a honeymoon with OW.

Anyway, until a 'real' routine is set with boys, I will probably exchange with WH more than I should be. But, so far, it's been him calling me. I have at least resisted calling him, and believe me I could find all sorts of reasons to call him, but I haven't, and I am really disciplined when I need to exchange with him - limited strictly to arrangements: boys, finances, appointments, etc.

It's the weekend. I still haven't figured out what to do with all of this time on my hand, but I know with time, I will.

I find the whole situation so sad.

I am now resisting calling him back and agreeing to his request to exchange weekends. I am a people-pleaser. Hard to say 'no'.

Update.

I decided what I wanted to do and did it - NOTHING!

Feels great not having to 'answer' to anybody except myself.