Win-

I'm sorry if you've felt that I've been judgemental of you. I've honestly tried to do the best that I could to see your side of things, but it's also very difficult for me to put myself into your situation. And it's also hard for me to see someone continue in a destructive behavior and not get angry with them for doing it.

I really have no advice at this point. But I WILL continue to pray for you both.

NO,
Owl you've been very helpful, and I thank you. I have stopped my destructive behavior and agreed to stay for 30 days.

win_bin:

That's good.

Just remember: Love is a choice, not a feeling.

best 2 you both,
-ol' 2long

Win/Bass-

Just remember, this does no good at all if you just go along with it. You have to TRY...you have to put EFFORT into it.

It's like smiling when you're down...do it, even if you don't think it will work....next thing you know, you're smiling and you mean it.

But just sticking around for 30 days will do NOTHING if you don't put REAL EFFORT into trying to be loving and caring and into doing things the way you SHOULD.

Personally, I'd SERIOUSLY recommend disabling the computer for the next 30 days too...to remove the temptation of IMing someone just 'cause you've had a bad day or something.

Hope things work out.

Bump-

But hoping that they've disabled the computer for the next month at least.

Still together for now. Win is trying a bit now, giving up the chat at least. I'm very proud of her. She's still very uncertain anything can be salvaged. I tried to sabotage the whole thing last night with a major bout of depression and then begging her to open up to me. I'm sick of myself and my actions and I'm going to try and get on anti-depressants at the next MC session. I will also be re-starting IC per Win's request. I need to work on intimacy issues, patience, and being a better listener/less controlling.

I just need to chill out but I'm so afraid of losing her. I wish I could disconnect my brain when it starts to wander among the bad thoughts.

Edit: Also realized she's not anywhere near done with withdrawal. And my begging/crying just makes her think of OM. I'm just holding to the "recovery can't start until withdrawal ends" mantra. Withdrawal has been long already, although IMO it didn't even start until very recently when she realized he was done with her. Our dilemma has been that she feels I haven't given her the space to withdraw, and I feel like she hadn't begun to withdraw while the chat was still going on. So I guess we are at square one, but we are both damaged, shell-shocked, and tired.

Win may have been working at mentally PREPARING herself for the end of OM, but the REAL withdrawal only starts when there is continuing NO CONTACT. You both will have to recognize this and gut through the withdrawal. I'm not the pro, but try as hard as you can to give her the space she asks for because she will be miserable. IMO, for myself, there was not much my H could do to help at this stage except be as supportive as possible. No R talk and prying about OM, but also allowing her to open up to you if she wants. It's not fair, but the withdrawal is a physical and mental phase that she'll have to go through.

Win, I am glad you are still there. Please work hard at NC. You know that the EA is over and you will have to withdraw at some point - the sooner the better. You will get through it, just set aside the time and know that each day will get a little better.

Bass ... YOU concentrate on how to manage your personal anxiety in healthy ways. Read and study books about that topic.

And one more thing ... stop making attempts to analyze and/or categorize everything your wife says. Accept her at face value for now. When you attempt to 'speak her mind' for her ... what you are actually doing is attempting to manage your personal anxiety thru some sort of marital ventriloquism. It's annoying the heck out of her, so cut it out.

Get your own anxiety managed via healthy means. If you don't have a clue what that means ... ask you IC.

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the tips, Pep. Will print them out and add them to the stack of stuff at bedside I read every day.

Bass-

All I could do during the time when my wife was in withdrawl was to listen to her side of things WITHOUT judging her, blowing up on her, or even try to see it from my viewpoint. Simply listen, let her vent, and not let anything she says or does cause a reaction in you. LISTEN to her, learn from what she says, and be as supportive as she'll let you be.

BUT...be firm on the NC issue. And in this case, that means NO computer usage that is in anyway inappropriate, since her issues aren't OM specific.

Don't make ANY talk about R, or M, or D. Don't make any decisions at this point either. Simply let her deal with things, and to basically plan A her as best as you can during this timeframe while she's doing so.

Win-
That doesn't mean he treats you like an invalid. You're still responsible for your actions and behavior. It's not free license to bash at Bass, to continue to contact ANY OM or carry on in any manner not appropriate to being married. It simply means that you be allowed to work through your grief over the end of the EA's. Once you've gone through that, THEN the talk about marriage, relationships, etc can start. THEN you can start deciding what you want to do in the future.

Hope this helps a little.

I haven't bashed at Bass. Quite the opposite actually. I don't resort to name calling.
I don't really care about any of the OM's except for one, and that has ended a while ago.
Bass I expect you to uninstall Counterstrike if you expect me to never chat again. It's so not fair you get your little indulgences when you can squeeze it in.
Nothing has really changed.

"Bass I expect you to uninstall Counterstrike if you expect me to never chat again. It's so not fair you get your little indulgences when you can squeeze it in."

wow...

No problem, Win, I will uninstall it tomorrow night. Sorry I made you mad by playing last night when you told me it was OK to use the computer...I thought that meant it was OK that I played while you watched TV. Thanks for letting me know it bugs you, I will take care of it ASAP.

Thanks for not chatting tonight when I'm gone, I appreciate your efforts.

"Nothing has really changed"

Actually, a lot has changed in terms of gaming. That was the first time I had played since I got back from my trip. I've played less than 2 hours in the last 30 days. I know now that it bugs you and I will stop completely.

Not being defensive, just pointing out my gaming amount has gone way down. Hope it doesn't make you mad, as I AM acknowledging that my playing last night made you mad and I will take steps to fix it.

OK...lets look at this real quick. I want to start with the bottom statement first.

This is NOT a negotiation on who will do what. This is NOT a 'I'll do this if you'll do that' kind of situation. Win, your chatting with guys online in an inappropriate fashion has NOTHING to do with gaming, nor should you even CONSIDER making ending this kind of chatting conditional on ANYTHING!

You should end the chatting because it's what you need to do...in order for YOU to be doing the right things. If Bass doesn't do what you ask him to in order to make things right, that's no excuse for you to behave in an inappropriate fashion.

Now, Bass has agreed to completely end the gaming, so that should hopefully end that issue. Have you told him what you'd like to have him doing instead of gaming? What would you like him to do during that time that he would have been gaming? Spending time with you? What?

Comments like the 'nothing has really changed' are intended to do nothing more than to get a rise out of someone. They're not productive, they're destructive. If you want to say something CONSTRUCTIVE, then try saying what you would like to see him doing INSTEAD of playing Counterstrike. Let him know what changes you would still like to see, and acknowledge the changes that you have already seen.

The EA with the last OM may have ended a while ago, but you were still VERY recently in contact with him. If you're NOT grieving over the loss of that relationship, then there's no withdrawl. If that's the case, then you should be ready and willing to do whatever you need to in order to start moving forward in some way or fashion.

Re-read your post, and tell me if it doesn't look like a bash after you've read my comments.

Now think about how you CAN do these things so that you both begin to work TOGETHER on working through these issues.

Sorry Win...just calling it like I see it.

Well, I guess you don't have to uninstall it. You can play it when I'm not home.

Okay

Have you two sat down and talked about this stuff? Or is it simply a battle everytime you do? How about this...why don't each of you sit down and make a list of the things that YOU know that YOU need to change in your behavior...then sit down, review that list with each other, add/modify based on that discussion, and then agree together on what you're going to do going forward?

Owl,
We seem to have talked everything to death. I think we both know what the issues are and whether or not that they can change is a different story. And yes sometimes it is a battle. He talks down to me which he is trying to change but it's part of his personality and ego.

You'll be happy to know I did delete some of OM's pix yesterday, it was a hard day but I've had it. I won't be talking to him again.

Yes, I think I know what I need to do. It's a long list...I need to stop talking down to Win, I need to listen better, I need to open up and let her in to my heart, I need to not be selfish or controlling, and I need to above all be patient.

I guess my worries on this are twofold...1. I won't be able to change enough, and 2. even if I do, Win may not be receptive to the change. I know now that #1 is in my control, and #2 is not. I will be going back into IC to work on ME, and hopefully I can change enough to at least have a chance at getting back into her heart. I certainly WANT to change, it's just a question of CAN I change.

One day at a time...

What about your list, Win? What do you need to do on your side of things to make this work out? Or at least to make yourself better?

Good job on the deleting the pics...that's a start. Now delete the rest of them, and whatever emails and any other items that you might have from OM. If it's over...then it's over. But it's up to YOU to make a clean break now. Time for it to happen.

But again, what else do YOU need to do?