Hi all. Can any of you please direct me to recent threads containing advise on the most effective way to end an affair. I know about Harley’s letter and I think it is a great idea but my W won’t do it. She is ready to end it (for the 5th and final time) but is affraid of her inablility to follow through. My W can’t stand hurting anyone - even the OM (while knowing what her daily contacts are doing to me). In almost 9 months, the OM has done nothing to give her a reason to hurt him or make her angry at him. The affair continuing has been as much her as him. Please don’t give advise for me, or feel sorry for me. Right now, I want to be here only for her. She is preparing for this. I want her to be as well prepared as possible. Thanks, Sailor<BR>

Sailor - Your selfless attitude is admirable. I know the pain you have endured and yet, your only concern is for your W's well-being. You are truly a saint and will be rewarded accordingly!!<P>I can't add much advice since my W is still DEEP into her fantasy and hasn't shown any proclivity to end it. In fact, if I had to guess, I'd say we are heading for a divorce (she filed 1 month ago).<P>However, I do wholeheartedly believe in the harley principles. For an affair to end properly, there MUST be complete and total separation between the infidels. Cold turkey style. From what I've read of the accounts, the witdrawal is it's own hell so you must be prepared for that. Have your read Surviving an Affair? yet?<P>Dr. Harley recommends the good-bye letter and there are very good reasons for it. One, there is no physical contact between the infidels that can serve to re-ignite the affair. Two, psychologically, it is received as a "Dear John" letter which serves as an indicator of it's sincerity.<P>The letter MUST be written in such a fashion that you (the betrayed) can read it...in fact Harley suggests that you actually mail it. This serves two functions, you get to read and approve the contents (making sure there are no loopholes in the wording) and two, you ensure that it actually gets mailed.<P>Good luck...I'll be thinking about you.

Hi Sailor,<P>I'm with my buddy Shattered on this one... the selflessness and strength you are showing your W by acting as her 'best friend' in helping her get out of this is admirable. She will one day thank you for how you were the deepest kind of friend to her, helping her with amazing strength not to lose YOU!!!<BR>(as you know, this is how I feel about my H) <P>As to help for her...it is hard for me to say because my situation was somewhat different. When I told my H about what I had done, you may remember the OM lost it. Was VERY mad. So I think I 'hurt' him to one degree or another. He always said he didn't love me, my H didn't agree, thought that OM felt more than he'd let on-it doesn't matter. The point is I don't think it is possible for her NOT to hurt him.<P>Unfortuately, the bad choices they made puts them in the position to ONLY hurt EVERYBODY, as we all know. It took me a long time (as a person who wants everyone to like me -to a fault) to realize that because I acted selfishly, the only way out was through pain.<P>The OM in my case made things very easy for me, and this perhaps is where the situations also differ. He, after several e-mails demanding an apology from me and slamming me quite a bit, stopped all contact with me. The few times I saw him (say at the store at lunch) he ignored me. So as you can see 'ending it' wasn't a issue really.<P>I look back on the way he acted and realize that it was so much for the best. If he did 'care' about me, than stopping all contact was actually more of an act of 'friendship' than anything else. Perhaps your W might think about that. Then write that letter... AND lean on you everytime she feels like contacting him. Like the addict (MAN, is that common analogy TRUE !!) she needs to go cold turkey to get out of it.<P>I know it hurts to hear, but if she cares about his 'welfare' it seems to me as tough as it will be, to STOP talking to him will hurt him (and you OF COURSE) less in the end. The sooner she allows him to get on with his life the better 'friend' she will be. I know it shouldn't make a darn bit of difference what HE might feel or have to deal with, but since it is true that she is emotionally attached, we have to consider that.<P>She has chosen to give your marriage what it needs to be repaired. YOU are doing all the right things Sailor - keep being strong! The good news for her is that the feeling WILL pass. Her love for YOU will grow. I feel it happening to me more and more each day. (Yesterday was 8 months from the day I told my H) <P>Yeah, the OM in my case didn't reciprocate, but I did believe I loved him. And now it has faded...my love for my H is again the love that makes my eyes tear up. Amazing!<P>He called me this morning (he's in NY until next week) and woke me up and spoke French to me. Sounds silly, but my God, that I put myself in a position that I could have lost him. It's that same feeling where you just miss being in a horrible car accident by a few inches and you sit stunned at what just occured. I feel like that a lot.<P>I talked quite a bit here but I'm not sure I helped much, sorry ...if she'd ever like to talk to somebody I'd be happy to e-mail her. It might help her to talk with someone who made it through ...<P>WOW. What waits foryou both at the other side of this is SSSSSSSOOO much better than what she can see now. I hope she can trust in that truth and bear up against any pain and walk right out of this sad thing.<P>take care Sailor<P>-janet<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by rjr #2 (edited September 25, 1999).]

Hi Sailor,<P>We are all individuals so each has their own way..cant see that one way is suitable for everybody....if your W is really ready to end it then she will end it...on the other hand if she is not ready to end it she wont no matter how many good intentions she has or how much support you give her...<P>5 times ending it..? if she really wanted to end it she would...it is not difficult to say its over...when it is difficult the difficulty is in the wanting to not in the technique...<P>Want her to be well prepared for this..?? what part of finish does she not understand...??? There is no way of saying it is over that is so great that it makes for a grand exit...either you do or you dont...<P>Now as to why she wont want to finish it or has a reluctance to do so is another matter for understanding and you would have to be ready for its truth if you wish to know it...however although this could be painful also carries with it freedom from the slavery of powerlessness due to not knowing...and the future hope of self empowerment, raising of self esteem, love, and inner peace...and a far better marriage if that is what is in your future and a far better understanding love and strength even if its not...keep going the rewards are well worth the effort....<P>cossie...<P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>

JN had a thread about ending the affair of her husband's... It was a crisis, and recent.<P>Can't remember the name of the thread.<BR>

Sailor,<P>Cossie has a point. Maybe it's something that I didn't see before. Somewhere, inside myself the night I told my H about the affair, I must have been ready to some extent to end it. My H did the rest. He did the work by confronting the OM. <P>Was I too weak? Yes, I'm sure. Sad but true.<P>Each has their own way, I think there is truth in that. <P>Sometimes I ask myself if that was what I was looking for, 'help'..???

Hi Janet<BR>Just checked in and saw your latest post. Only have a minute cause I told my daughter she could get on at 11 for some chatting. If I knew this I forgot it but I think this is the first I knew that your H confronted the OM. What is funny about this is that 3 months ago when I mentioned the possibility of this my W encouraged me and I did call him but it was pointless. I have thought about doing it again in a more assertive way. Would you mind telling me the circumstances of your H doing this? <P>I'll respond to the other posts in the morning. Thankyou all. <BR>Ron

Ron,<P>Sure...If I've mentioned it before then it was probably in a post called something like 'should I confront the OM' or something. It's been thrown around as to whether this is a good idea or not. I don't remember ever reading it in Dr. Harley's information so I don't know that he'd recommend it.My H was not at all familiar with the MB ideas so he was going purely on instinct and anger too I think. <BR>Our story...<P>The day after I told my H he went to my old place of work to see the OM. My H said he went there because it was of course the only place he knew where to find him. The OM was apparently caught completely off guard. I never told him (I didn't even know myself) that I was going to tell my H about all of it.<P>My H said the OM's first reaction when he found out who he was and why he was there(my H introduced himself and asked the OM to step into the conference room and closed the door) was to say 'I'm sorry.' My H appparently told him that he had become aware of what had been happening between us and that while he couldn't MAKE the OM do anything, he asked him to stop all contact with me and to not accept any contact From me. <P>My H said that later on in the conversation the OM got a rush of testosterone (sp) (my H's words) and at the end somewhat raised his voice and said 'don't ever come into my place of work again' or something like that...anyway it started what was few days of phone calls from the OM threating to put my H 'in the hospital.'<P>Weird though huh? It was the OM who lost it. My H was calm and never instigated (sp) any further contact with the OM. When the OM called him at work one day and apparently yelled things like 'what are you going to do about it??' my H just kept calmly repeating 'OM, are you finished??'<P>So it seems that the OM's ego was brusied. That was the main reason for his reaction I think. After that he never contacted me in any way again. To be honest, I think that the OM's pesonality and how he really felt about me, were the reasons he didn't contact me. He had always said he didn't 'need' anyone - that he feared he was only using me. (So true it was) <P>I don't know how effective this confrontation would be with someone who felt they 'loved' the betrayer. It just seemed to be the right thing for us.<P>What happened when you called him? Was there a reaction? Did he listen to any kind of reason?<P>It is good that she had incouraged you to do this. It shows perhaps that she was looking in a small way for the same kind of 'help' I needed. At least it's a possiblity. I was very resentful at first that my H went to see him. I thought I could 'handle' it myself. This I can see now, was not true.<P>I wish I had something to suggest for you to help your wife directly. Every situation is so different as much as they are the same. Talk to you again Sailor.<P>-janet<P><p>[This message has been edited by rjr #2 (edited September 26, 1999).]

Hi again. Sorry for the delay - have been busy and thins are picking up. My W told me today she has decided to write OM the Harley "it’s over" letter. When she told me this I told her about this post and the advise you all have given recommending the letter even though I had said she wouldn’t write it. She had me read it tonight and she wants me to mail it Wednesday (I guess so he will get it Friday on her day off ). She told me when she got home that OM called her today and she believes he knows where things are headed. I continue to be skeptical over signs of weakness but I do believe all these are good signs and I am very thankful. She seemed somewhat down tonight and I know why. I gave her a back rub and have held her and told her I love her several times. <P>Shattered - You are kind to flower me with praise but it is not deserved. I am struggling to give and not take but I continue to convey my needs. Believe me, I am far from any Saint. But I do hope and pray that I will be rewarded for my efforts. Yes, I have read lots of Harley’s material including SAA, Love Busters, and His & Her Needs. I too agree with his principals. I like their simplicity because in times like this everyone needs methods that they can understand and implement easily. I sure hope you are able to get your W to come to her senses Shattered.<P>Janet - Hi again. Yes, I know your situation was different. I wish mine had been more like yours. I think it would have made it easier on my W. I agree with you on everyone having to be hurt. And now the OM will be hurt. But if they are not to be, the sooner it comes, the better for all of us. Thanks for your offer to email with my W Janet. You are very kind. I doubt that she will but I sent her a copy of this thread today so maybe she will. Thanks for repeating your "story". It is encouraging to know you got his help and appreciated it. It is also encouraging to know where you are right now - right were I want to be with my W. Some, like Crossie above suggest it must all be on the shoulders of the betrayer. I do think there is a lot of truth in that. But at the same time, it hurts me to not be in more supportive position. My W and I have sort of established a presidence where I come in and take over when she is having a lot of trouble with something. Don’t get me wrong, my W is very resourcefull and can stand on her own two feet. When I called the OM (the one time I have), he was very sad and sorry and assured me he would stop contact with my W. I remember thinking he seemed a little wimpy but I believe he was just very ashamed and hopeful I wouldn’t call his W. Well, I’ll just have to see how things go with the sending of this letter. <P>Crossie - Yea, you are right. I know you are. I just hope she is ready to end it. She knows it is the only path but I just hope she is ready to begin walking and not turn back.

Ron - You and your wife are going to make it. It is just going to be tough for a while. Janet is giving you some wonderful stuff here. I have noticed that many of the women grow to see the OM in a different light as the days go by. Your perserverence is what is going to make a tremendous impact to your wife. Keep doing what you are doing.<P>SHA