Hey coach,

Please don't return evil for evil.

You have a DD, regardless of the circumstances, getting married in less than 2 weeks as we speak. This is major.

Regardless of the situation with WW (?) and I am assuming WW because you have not posted otherwise, you need to take the high road.

You have only hinted that you know all. Please post and help all of us who care about you to help you.

I ask that you STEP BACK, and think what is the HEALTHIEST for your DD's wedding, for yourself, and for your marriage.

I would think, at 2 weeks before my child's marriage, that I could put it all off until after the event.

Perhaps this way DD might understand the 'for better or worse' in the marriage covenant. One an always hope. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Regardless of her education in these matters, this is her Mom and Dad. She just might be trying some damage control due the the short time before her marriage vows. I hope you can put all hell breaking loose aside until all this is over. DD wedding I mean.

I've done it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> You can too!

God Bless you and be with you.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

PS. And having finally had the time to read up on your post, as I initially responded to the first 3 pages, I stand by my post. Do NOT return evil for evil. Not good to try and have vengeance on your daughter or WW, step BACk, and please, wait till DD's wedding is over. You seem determined to have your vengeance, but I say, take the high road, you willl be able to live with yourself in the end. Vengeance is not yours at this time. THINK. Vengeance was not ever mine, not my area, it is God's.

Oh. That's what they're going to learn, are they? All they have to do is look around and they can see people playing stupid games left, right, and center and getting away unscathed. That's life, coach. You're not going to change universal law.

Coach, with all due respect, you are the one playing games. Mind games, control games, and so on. And the scary thing is that you believe you are at the control panel.

There will be all sorts of unintended consequences to people's behavior, inlcuding yours. There always is. And lots of things in your plan can backfire. (For example, WW can tell D that she was defending herself against you...since you didn't file a report, she could well be believed.)

Please, Coach, get out of the God game. Find out what happened, as best you can. Expose to the max what you do learn. Then back out. Revenge scenarios work best in your head and in the movies. Withdraw yourself from the situation in a dignified way.

And begin a new chapter in your life. Will it be easy? No. But it will be a lot harder if you have a jail sentence.

And as someone else suggested, please look out for the dog. He's innocent.

Dear Coach!

Unlike the majority here I fully share your analysis of the situation. I have only a little psychological training as part of my degree. But my qualification for this conclusion is from raising five kids. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have seen time and time again how the kids are willing to escalate to more and more drastic behaviour to provoke a reaction if they feel ignored. For example when the kids were small and we were expecting quests and were busy with the preparations we did not give them as much attention as they expected. Then more usual then not, they would become more and more clinging. Eventually they would start doing things they very well knew were wrong just to provoke attention. Any attention, even an angry one was better then feeling ignored.

The way to prevent this scenario was to plan activities for them and start them up with something positive, and to talk to them when passing by, so they should not feel we were unavailable, or to send them off to the grandparents before we started.

Deep in the hart every adult have a child hidden. Your wife was ridden with guilt. She hurried home like the fire brigade after an alarm to do damage control. But you refused to talk to her. You prevented her damage control. Panic was growing in her. She regretted very much what she had done. These stupid choices of hers were now hurting you and destroying her marriage. But every attempt she did to do damage control was prevented by you. You made yourself unavailable. “What does he think?” “What does he feel?” “Will he divorce me?”
Your refusal to communicate gave no release for the fear and frustration that grew in her, and pressure build in her like steam in the boiler of a steam-engine. The guilt multiplied the fear of abandonment that every child has.
Eventually the child in her took control: Any response form you would be better than none. So she screamed the most hurtful statements she could imagine to you. From the past she took her knowledge of your insecurities and made word-tools she hoped would be strong enough to break your armour of self control. It had to be powerful ammunition! I don’t think you should believe these statements to be true. They were desperate attempts to provoke some kind of response from you. Any response whatsoever!
But your armour withstood the attacks. You withdrew without screaming back to her. And her desperation grew even more. The child craved some proof of attention from you, the one she loves.
And when she bit she was rewarded. You could not ignore her anymore! Like the kid who drops a cup to the floor to beak it, she had at least got your attention. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

All these posters who make her into a demon should spend some time with kids. You learn a lot about adults from observing kids <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Edited to include:
You asked for suggestions as to why you came to the conclusion that you would now stay in the M. I think that you intuitively grasped this in her. You were intuitively able to see behind the bite and the blood and see the love and the desperation that motivated it.

Dear Coach,

Reading your account sent shivers up my spin. If this weren't a real life account, it would make for one scary soap novel. You are a good writer but sad to say it really happened.

Your account of her actions are scary to say the least. Now that is why you need to pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. I certainly understand your need to take the high road. Sounds like u 2 need t/b apart for your physical as well as mental safety. Take the pup with you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Your W's swinging moods is unfortunately par for the A course. Best for the BS to steer clear of the WS on the rampage. Know she may ruin or demolish cherished items. She has already trashed your R and if there is any repair work, the WS has to be the one to put in more elbow grease than the BS.

Until she is in the right frame of mind to work on real recovery, it's best you think about plan B and be safe. I know you need to know but you can see that when a WS can't get the control they want, they can resort to some strange behavior that later even they won't recognize.

As for your daughter, I know you are angry but she c/b a pawn/victim also. Her wedding is coming up soon. If you like her fiance..... please do your best to see her happily married.

Weddings are highly stressful for young brides. Father of the brides, c/b valuable in making this a memorable time. If you can put some of your anger aside and maybe team up to make her wedding a happy memory and deal with your WS together as a family instead of against each other, then your family bond will stand.

Get all your children involved. Let them know their support is needed and greatly appreciated. Send out the warning. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> This is war. Kill it with kindness, love and patience. Be firm yet caring. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

BTW, a little reverse babble may help. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hugz,
L.

I agree with Frank's analysis - except for one point.

Her behaviour had nothing to do with love, and everything to do with attachment.

I've read just enough of John Bowlby to be dangerous.

My wife has done similar things - and explained later that it was because she felt ignored.

Your W is attached to you (in the psychological sense). As Frank wrote, adults are no different than kids in this.

Just don't confuse it with love. And don't let it distract you from the infidelity.

-AD

The court will come to order. We're hearing the case of WW against Coach in the matter of divorce and harrassment.

Atty: So Coach you claim that WW bit you in the back of the neck so badly that you had stitches and she had blood dripping down her neck?

Coach: Right

Atty: Do you have a copy of the police report where this happened?

Coach: No I didn't file a report.

Atty: Hmmm. You were bit in the neck so badly that it required stitches yet you didn't file a report?

Coach: No, I knew my wife loved me when she did this so I didn't file a report.

Atty: This alledged physical attack told you that your wife loved you?

Coach: Yes.

Atty: Hmmm. Where were you when this happened?

Coach: On the floor consoling my dog.

Atty: On the floor consoling your dog? Are you sure the dog wasn't the one biting your neck?

Coach: No it was WW. She grabbed me from behind and held me so tightly I couldn't breathe. When I struggled to get away she bit me.

Atty: You couldn't breathe. Could it be that you passed out and you didn't realize that it was the dog that bit you?

Coach: No I'm sure it didn't happen that way.

Atty: Your wife was hugging you which is a display of affection yet she bit you? This bite caused you to have stitches, yet you didn't call the police?

Coach: I didn't call the police because I know my wife loves me.

Atty: Hmmm. WW claims you have harrassed her, Prof, Prof's family and caused your DD's wedding to be ruined. Is that true?

Coach: I didn't ruin DD's wedding. These people conspired against me and support WW's affair with Prof. I wanted to show them they couldn't mess with me. I wanted to show them I wasn't going to take it anymore.

Atty: Do you love your DD.

Coach: Yes

Atty: So proving a point was more important that DD's wedding and subsequent marriage. Did it ever occur to you that your actions would affect her marriage?

Coach: It didn't occur to her that her actions affected my marrige.

Atty: Hadn't your wife been unfaithful previously?

Coach: Yes and she had to call me 4 times per day to prove that she wasn't cheating again.

Atty: When she missed those calls what discussion did you have in the matter.

Coach: No discussion. I told her to change the sheets on my bed and sleep in the other room. She wasn't allowed to come back until she had a blood test.

Atty: Did she?

Coach: Yes. Well, she did sleep in the bed after she bit me which was before she had the blood test.

Atty: So she bit you, had blood in her mouth and dripping down her neck. She then proceeded to go to sleep in your bed before having the blood tests which you required, yet you still didn't call the police.

Coach: No I didn't. I knew after she bit me that she loved me.

Atty: So after this you decided to spread your revenge to everyone involved..WW, Prof, Prof's family and DD. Right?

Coach: Yes. I'd had enough.

Atty: Did it occur to you how far reaching your revenge would spread? Did it occur to you that you would ruin your daughter's wedding and how that would affect her fiance's family?

Coach: DD should have thought of that before she defended her mother.

Atty: So this is all DD's fault? Afterall, you claimed you knew your wife loved you when she bit a whole in your neck, so DD had to pay the price?

Coach: No you're twisting the facts. DD wasn't at fault. She should have known better than to defend her mother.

Atty: Was she defending her mother or trying to protect her wedding ceremony that was 2 weeks away from this disaster her parents had created?

Coach: I don't know.

Atty: Why don't you know?

Coach: We never discussed it. I was so mad. I decided that now I was in control and everyone would pay.

Atty: Ok. So your wife has cheated before, why didn't you divorce then?

Coach: We did our best to make it work.

Atty: It didn't work. Why didn't you just leave when you found out she was yet again committing adultery?

Coach: I wanted to get the facts.

Atty: Didn't you already know the facts? Were you goading your wife in punishment?

Coach: No, you don't understand, I wasn't going to be treated this way again.

Atty: Wouldn't it have been better to have just walked?

Coach: I had to exact my revenge.

Atty: Haven't you ever heard that the best revenge is leading a good life?

Hi, Frank.

Quote:
===============================
All these posters who make her into a demon should spend some time with kids. You learn a lot about adults from observing kids.
===============================

Since I am the first to bring up 'demon', I will assume you are talking about me, and respond.

I have spent a lot of time with kids. Good kids and wayward kids. You are right in that some of them need tough love, but it isn't a 'one size fits all' approach.

The simple fact is that you have to deal with violent behavior proportionate with its presentation. You do that by stopping it and making the consequences for engaging in it serious enough that the perpetrator doesn't want to do it again.

Coach's wife's behavior indicates that she requires firm and immediate enforcement to preclude further acts of violence and psychiatric help so that she can address her obvious character issues.

She has a problem that Coach can't fix.

All the best,
Gimble

Coach,

I am SO sorry to read about the nightmare that has re-visited you.

I read your story and it convinces me that serial adultery is a HUGE character flaw that can almost never be fixed. My STBXW has that flaw and I simply cannot imagine taking her back without a HUGE expenditure of work on her part to fix the M, which I don't think will happen...hence my pending D.

How does that apply to you? Now that you know your WW is a serial WW, it's time to cut the losses and move on without her. You don't know how many other A's there may have (or have not...gotta be fair) been in the 7 year period between now and your first D-Day.

A police report when she bit you would have been a good thing to have, but what's done is done...time to extract yourself from a bad situation.

Expose to whomever needs to know about her lack of character (your family, her family and OM's family) and get her out of your life as expeditiously as possible. Even if (I highly doubt it) that she didn't have SF with him, an EA is an offense that HAD to have occurred becasue of her lying about the whole purpose of the trip.She cheated...it's just a matter of degree now.

Energy spent on revenge is best spent elsewhere...you may actually regret your actions later.

YOu have been a wise and rational voice during my ordeal...I have read your posts to others and learned a LOT from you...thanks from an MB'er who appreciates your help during a DARK time.

My best wishes go out to you...

WNB

jph:

Interesting and plausible scenario... ...except for the last line! I don't believe a prosecuting attorney would ever say something like THAT! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


coach:

Even if the blood tests 2rn up negative, it wouldn't hurt 2 stay out of direct sunlight for a while...

...and I said I wasn't going 2 make references 2 Anne Rice novels! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

Hey Coach,

I feel a little awkward giving you advise after my own marriage failing.

I just want to say, please be careful with your daughter. Don't ruin her wedding. Try to remove her from the middle. She's your daughter and she loves you both. She screwed up, that's her mom's fault, she shouldn't have been involved.

If you mess up her wedding she may never forgive you. I wouldn't be able to live with that and I doubt you will either. I know it will be difficult, but tell her you love her and you're sorry she got caught up in this mess.

You always gave it to me straigth coach, I don't think you would respect any less.

She's your daughter, period - end of story.

Some comments on your previous quotes from this thread, Coach....


well, now you know ... you do care...


This is the core of your insecurity, I think. And as yet an unanswered question ... and perhaps explains why you are still living under the same roof with your toothy wife. You may think this is about you ... and not about your wife's character ... do you?


OOps


Double OOps


Really Coach? I hope you can ... because you really should have invited a third party after she bit you then she went immediately into a blissful sleep.

Don't cross swords with a woman like your wife Coach. You think you can disregard the 'rules of combat' as easily as she? [b] I have no doubt she is capable of doing things TO YOU that you would never allow yourself to do to her. You are NOT playing on an even field. You lose your control ONE TIME and you will find yourself in jail facing charges.

I recommend you get out of her range. She is not finished hurting you .... and you have much more self control than she ... and she is going to use that against you.

I'm not kidding. Take the dog and leave for awhile. She MEANT what she said when she told you how much she hates you. I believe her.

Sorry Coach ... that's my current view.

Pep

I'm with Pep (don't I wish).

And I recant what I said about telling your daughter.

Move out of the house - tell DD "your Mom and I have some troubles" and nothing more. Get your tux fitted nicely, hair cut right. Be there for DD with bells on - but stay away from your wife - far away.

While DD is on her honeymoon, file.
Don't look back. (except to watch your back)

-AD

im with pep coach---get the hell outta dodge with the pooch!

if you think you understand women and think you know what this is all about---im afraid you are seriously wrong in this sitch. if she hasnt been a physically abusive person all along...and this came out of no-where----THEN YOU BETTER BELIEVE WHAT SHE SAID TO YOU AND GET THE HELL OUTTA THERE....SHE IS PLANNING HER NEXT MOVE....I WOULD BET MONEY ON IT!!!

on a side note---what the heck are you thinking not calling the cops????? i am afraid im starting to think you've been pushed too far and have snapped...everyone in this situation is in danger right now! get out!

PS Coach ... Can you even imagine going into a peaceful sleep after physically maiming someone you love?

THIS is the most important part for me Coach. NOT that she bit you in a fit of passion (that is bad) ... but much worse is her REACTION to her OWN violence !!!

Really ... 'cold hearted' does not even come close.

There is no empathy in her response to your pain ... none. She was responding to HER pain ... and it has you confused, thinking she is responding to YOUR pain. She is not.

Pep

The behavior you're describing isn't much different from my first husband before he poisoned my two dogs. That was his response to my pushing for a separation, due to his erratic, violent behavior and affairs.

Dobie

coach:
"Gimble, Bry, Trix, Sue, LB...I'm embarassed by your confidencet in my naivete...guys I haven't been simple stupid for quite some time."

I'm reassured by this coach. I was in a similar position at one time, and from the outside it looked like I was being naive and being played. I knew what I was doing--and why I was doing it (a child's safety was on the line among other things). I don't regret it one bit either. I also didn't have to go to the lengths I was prepared to go. It was tempting to keep going, but I only went as far as was necessary. To be honest, I was a little disappointed that it wasn't necessary LOL.

coach, do you have someone you can talk to about details that are better kept off the board? It's a really good idea to have the support of someone who can confront you when it's questionable if you're heading toward going outside your plan of what's necessary or outside your own integrity.

Take care coach

The entire attitude bothers me...

the name calling and violence ...

then not only did she go blissfully asleep, she got into the bed he previously ordered her out of!

Who is showing who what here?

Susan

Coach...

I'm with pep, nikko and ad - get your pooch and get the hell out of dodge.

As I said before, I've seen the same kind of thing in my wife, and I think, yes, she fell right asleep because she had a release of all the tension in her. It made her feel better. Do you want to live with a person who feels better after she abuses you - verbablly and physically?

... and there is no substitute for your integrity and good name. Don't throw that away for something that is no longer worth very much - and which you have only a small chance of getting.

I'm sure there's a crowd of people invited to the wedding. You don't want them all to be saying "I thought coach was a good man, but now I see the truth."