Sorry to post a new one...couldn't find this one...LOL so shoot me for being a dummy...but don't be angry with me...kay?...I've been away a lot and for pretty good reasons. Haven't been near a computer so this is the first chance I've had...honest! And you'all gonna get sick and tired of hearing from soon...you'll see...
coach

I value all the input I receive here…the criticism as well as the sympathy, good wishes and over all support…but folks…before hammering me…do me favor a go back to the beginning of this post and re-read some of the comments made by each of you...over the last month.

Then re-read some of this post with the goal of understanding the chronological order of events…as they’ve been taking place…Then add one additional element…take into account the history involved…and try to remember that all the players in this nasty little drama were just that…players…not bystanders mind you…but players…and if you do that…then maybe you’ll understand that trying to manage my behavior and the behavior and feelings of the others involved…as if each subsequent event took place in a vacuum…as if each had nothing to do…one to the other…in terms of cause and effect… would take a Herculean effort…or the effort of a saint at the very least.

And I don’t want to get myself into a self defensive mode here…because I don’t feel I need to. I know quite well that I haven’t managed everything perfectly…but given the level of emotion…and the multiple directions that events kept coming at me from…I have to tell you guys…I’m feeling a little like the 7th Calvary at the Little Big Horn…only I ain’t playin’ the role of Custer for no one…and any one that expects that of me to will just have to be disappointed. I’m sorry…

This I do know…I’m not a bad man, bad father or mean spirited individual…I’m just not…and I won’t accept that role…that description or that persona. Yes there are plenty of character faults that I do have…not the least of which is a terrible temper…but I am not a mean and I am not unforgiving…nor am I a person who knowingly or willingly hurts others…but neither am I a cheap rug…to be walked on an over as if I had no consequence or value…to that end I quote…(or more accurately paraphrase) the great Rabbi Hillel…”yes I am for myself, for if not I, then who shall will be?”

I would also like to remind you all that it was not I that created this situation…and that my darling daughter played more then a small role in all that has caused things to be as they are. So because she was getting married was I suppose to ignore her culpability in her mother’s escapade…or her defense of that escapade…or her assertions that it is her mother’s right to indulge in that kind of escapade?

Because she was getting married…was I to put aside the principles that I have let guide my very life…act instead with disregard for the very core of the beliefs and values that I have taught my children and have at least attempted to live my life by? Is it possible that for the sake of a party…that any of you could be suggesting that I should have turned my back on the very person I am…or at least try to be?...That I should have compromised the very core of who I am…that I should have acted as if all of this was ok?

And you my darling Pepper…you who I trust realizes how high in my regard you stand…and how high in regard I hold your opinions and the values you espouse…wasn’t it you who were kind enough to at one point…suggest that maybe the wedding shouldn’t happen at all?…That maybe the wedding should be put on hold…in light of the greater issues that were being debated at the time?

And I’m not arguing with you Pep…or your feelings regarding the letter that I insisted that my WW write (along with me) to our children…and then insisted that she read to them…before the wedding was to take place…but neither will I agree with your assessment of the situation.

All involved in moment were players on the board…the reality of awareness was among us all…and to me…it would have been the grossest kind of hypocrisy, dishonesty and self betrayal…to go forward as a participant in that wedding…making believe that all was well…and that there were no greater issues at hand…that not only needed illumination…but cried out in justice to be herd…by all…with out having at the very least…the very least…done as I did.

Pepper…JL...Orchid…Mel…Ms. Martin…and so many of you others that I love and respect…don’t you all know that to go forward…making believe…is what I longed to do?...But to do so would have meant to me…giving in…giving in to the weakness of doing the easy thing…taking the easy way out…and in so doing, showing approval…by not standing up….and saying no!...

Don’t you all know that this is what I longed to do!? To make believe and turn my head away? But I’m sorry Pep…timing is everything…and to have made believe that all was well…to put my integrity on the back burner…that would have made me the dishonorable man that I guess my wife would have preferred to have married…it would have been the easy thing to do…to keep peace and make believe…but in my heart I know…it would have been just so wrong…so very wrong.

As for my leaving the wedding…I can only put forth the same argument. Staying and making believe would have been by far…the easier thing for me to do…Just as accepting my wife’s position on this entire matter would be the easier thing to do…and so on and so forth…down the slippery slope…

So to all of you reading this post…let me just say with no rancor what so ever…but instead…true and genuine love and appreciation to and for you all…agree with me…disagree with me…be disappointed in me if you must…just know that I willingly accept your criticism…but also know that I can live with your disappointment in me…what I can no longer live with is being disappointed in myself.

Coach

Coach,

I ask you this question with the utmost respect: Wouldn't it have been better for all involved if you had simply filed for divorce, and explained to your D that you would not be attending her wedding? I beleive that you would have still maintained your integrity and at the same time would have sent a very powerful message to both your W and D.

I sincerely hope that one day your D realizes the magnitude of her mother's second betrayal to you and her role in it. I hate to see her becoming a BS herself in order to finally grasp the ordeal you [and all of us here] have gone through.

TMCM

Coach,

I posted a few thoughts on the other thread. I don't think you should have turned your head on this one. What I am going for is some introspection so that you can handle the FUTURE in the optimum way. From what you said in the past your daughter helped your W cheat or at least was caught in the middle and for her own purposes chose to protect her mother.

You will have to figure out which it was. You will have to figure out if you can tolerate your daughter in your life as much as I know you love her. IF you want her in your life, I think the path to reconcilliation will be long and hard in large part because your W does not UNDERSTAND what she has done, and will therefore continue to feed your D information even after the divorce that will keep you separated from her.

Frankly, although this is a marriage site, your W sounds very much like the W of man who used to post here SpaceCase. You could look up his posts as well. If she is close you have little chance of changing her position on his, it must come from her and she does not seem to exhibit the self-awareness to do that. It is for you two to decide.

I do think you should take the criticism to heart for within that criticism are probably the seeds of your future actions with regard to your children, your family, and your marriage.

Think about this very carefully. I will admit after what you daughter did, I would have left as well, particularly given what how your W confronted you. But, I can be a hardheaded SOB. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But, the point remains was that the best solution, especially since you OWED your brother, his family and YOUR friends your presence. I think in that light he and other should receive a heartfelt apology. As for your W, ... I don't know what to say.

However, I do hope you will consider things carefully especially with regard to your daughter. It is very clear that while possibly not practical, postponing the wedding might have been the best idea, but I understand the inertia of such events.

This is tough stuff, and it will take great skill on your part to obtain the optimum results and I believe you should do your best to apply your skills to these many issues.

God Bless,

JL

TMCN,
What you suggested was an option that I very strongly considered. Go back and re-read some of this "drama" and you'll see that this was a considertion...a consideration that cooler heads around her...prevailed upon me to disregard...and rightly so I believe.

No Coffee man, there were and still are no easy answers. This is a battle that is far from over...as much as I want it to be...as much as I want to turn and walk away...I will not be allowed to...of that I'm becomng very sure.

The way things seem to be shaping up, this is going to be a play in 6 acts, LOL.

Oh well, I'm going to take Jake for a walk along the bay now. He keeps rubbing his head on my leg...hates when I'm on the computer...after all...how can I be paying attention to him while I type away with the hands that are suppose to be rubbing his ears? LOL
Coach

coach,

after reading your earlier post and then the many replies you received I just have to tell you that if I were on your situation I would have done just as you did. Against many of the opinions that have been shared here I do not think it was a one-up-manship deal, neither do I think that reading that letter BEFORE the wedding in a setting where only you, your wife and your children were present was mean spirited or to steal the show like someone has suggested.

The reading was done for very logical and mature reasons and as I see it it was necessary as well. Your wife and your daughter created all the drama and now are trying to deflect their responsibility by pointing fingers at you.

"See? SEE??? He left! Without telling anybody!!! That paranoid SOB! So inmature! So disgraceful!"

I am sorry if people don't agree with me, thats just fine, but it seemed to me that your daughter was really calculating and did what she did when she did it for showmanship, shock value and to hurt you as hard as possible after she had gotten married. If she had approached you before the ceremony, before the dance even, it would have been a cry for help or a way to let you know she wasn't happy, but the whole scene she pulled was deliberated to make a scene in front of your family, her new in-laws and her friends.

When you were toying with the idea of not going to the ceremony in fear something like this or worst may happen many people jumped to tell you you had to go etc etc. You went, you tried your damnest to make it work, alas they reached your breaking point, broke the camels back and you had to remove yourself from the three ring circus, and sincerely I would have too. You told your kids and your brother you were leaving and so you left.

If anybody deserves an apology from you is the groom's family, a simple "I am sorry i left so abruptly" would suffice.

About keeping a relationship with your daughter, thats something that needs compromises from both your side and hers. She is an adult, she isn't a little kid anymore, and she needs to understand that reading the letter was done for a good reason, that it wasn't to steal her spotlight, but to clear the air before the wedding. She also needs to stop believing all the smoke screens your wife sets in front of her and get a grip on the reality.

I believe you said you weren't there when your wife read the letter to your kids, and if you weren't, are you sure she read what it was agreed? or did she spike the timeline with her own spice?

All I am saying is that from my point of view you did your best and it still went bad, because both your wife and your daughter still have a very skewed sense of reality and are trying their hardest to make you look like the crazy unreasonable one. But sadly if you hadn't gone to the wedding, even if you hadn't read the letter I can bet your daughter would have done the same thing, why? Because as she told you herself, it wasn't only the letter she was resenting, oh no, it was the fact that NC had to be established with the prof and the prof's daughter, so she would have made that remark with or without the letter. It was a no win situation as I see it.

Now I'll just shut my big mouth and wait for people to whack me with a stick <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

OK, don't hit me coach, but what struck me about your post is that you are talking about about you, your pride, what you stand for, your principles -- all of which are very true and correct things. All of which have a place, and should have a place, in your situation. But I think that JL's point is well taken (most of his points are) that there were other people at the wedding -- your brother, your new SIL, his family, etc. -- who also had needs, and had no knowledge of and role in your wife's behavior. I think particularly of the SIL -- it was his wedding, too, a unique occasion in his life. And he had no role in any of this.

Don't get me wrong: I probably would have walked, too. And believe me, if I had the bucks you seem to (even after the wedding), holing up out of town for three weeks sounds like a fantastic idea. Your daughter's act was not a faux pas, it was premeditated malice -- and that's where I would draw the line. Outbursts I can understand; malice is a different level.

There probably was no great way to handle this wedding -- just various options with various pitfalls and limitations. Now it's time to pay out for the option you chose -- and that will involve fence-mending with the chosen parties.

(And I also agree with JL about the Golden Rule: it's only in the last half-century that weddings have become a fantasy event for the bride's ego. Traditionally, the parents of the bride are hosts, and THEY invite the guests. The bride has input, not executive fiat.)

Coach,

I think you did good. IMHO, if you did anything wrong, Alostwife hit the nail on the head.

"I believe you said you weren't there when your wife read the letter to your kids, and if you weren't, are you sure she read what it was agreed? or did she spike the timeline with her own spice?"

You should have been there to make sure the proper words were spoken, and no extra opinions were expressed.

Tell your W and D that if you ever see the prof again, he will wind up in the hospital, and his wife is lucky to be rid of him.

Tell your W that you do not dance to her tune. Her job is to be protective of you. She wasn't, twice, and you do not want to stick around and see if the 3rd time is a charm.

I know this is Marriage Builders, but that doesn't read like a marriage that can be built upon until your W gets a dose of reality.

Am Martin:

I liked the way you put that. In reality there was no "best way" to do this. The situation sucked, plain and simple, and the coach man is gonna have to just live with his choices, and live with the consequences. I don't really get the feeling that Coach did what he did on a "whim", he is a smart man, who knew full well what the "fallout" was gonna be for doing what he did.

You cannot begrudge that. There are many many people who would have just "made nice" here and went with the flow......compromsing their integrity for the greater good. And who is to say that they are wrong for saying that. I don't have the foggiest idea what the right answer is. Coach made an informed decision, he is seemingly ready and willing to live with the consequnces.

I wish more people in this life had the guts to do the same.

Just my unasked for .02

Sour...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Coach,

I was very happy to see my prediction proved false.

You done good!

Coach, the way I see it, it is all about honor, and honor being so closely associated with honesty that you cannot get one without having the other.

I will quote from a book I have regarding the two:

Honor and honesty have the same root word, and the two conditions can't be separated. If you refuse to take responsibility for your choices, you're lying to yourself about your own power. Real honesty requires courage and the ability to take risks. To have the magnetic energy that attracts really loving treatment, you must always have the courage to risk making the honest and self-honoring choice.

~Sandra Ann Taylor

I believe I know why you are doing/have done regarding your sitch. And I commend you. I also feel so bad for you because to honor yourself, even though you love your wife has got to be killing you.

And as far as your daughter - I had several periods in my life when I was at odds with my dad, one time not speaking to him for a year and a half. I came around, and for the last five years of his life we were best friends. He was right, I was wrong. He taught me a few things about love. I hope the same for you and yours.

Take care Coach.

Coach... no 2x4s from me. When I read that you left the wedding immediatly after you DD pulled her malicious, premeditated punch, I was in awe of you. I would have done exactly the same thing. And dissapearing for the length of time you did, in order to digest everthing and collect your bearing was certainly in order.

Your WW is toxic. Divorcing her at this time is your best move. She probably orchistrated your DD's actions. Foolish girl. The lesson she will learn from this action will be very humbling to her some day, or at least we all hope so, for her sake, and for yours.

You stood with your daughter and gave her away on the most important day of her life, and she booby-trapped the father/daughter dance at the reception with a land mine. I would stay dark on your daughter until your divorce is final, and another year or so until things "normalize". She needs to pay a price for playing the puppet for her manipulative mother.

God bless you, Coach. You've walked through fire for the past month or so. Rest and heal. Make a new life for yourself. You deserve it!

Best wishes,
SD

I can see how Coach's daughter let the overwhelming emotions of it all get the best of her. And she screwed up.

I can see how Coach's wife needed to feign "normalcy" (whatever her definition is) for the wedding. And she screwed up, too.

I can see how Coach may have felt before, during, and after the wedding. Whether or not Coach "screwed up" is only for Coach to figure out over the long haul.

But one thing I can see more clearly than anything, is that Coach was the only Real Person in this whole ordeal. And Coach, for being Human... I applaud you.

Having kids myself, I would like to believe that your daughter's malicious attempt to publicly humiliate you is not something that speaks to her character. But I doubt that.

I believe that she is following in her mother's footsteps. Your wife seems to believe that the normal rules of life don't apply to her. That she is somehow able to get away with doing and saying things that are far beyond the pale. She passed that belief on to your daughter, evidently.

You have done her a great service by showing her at a young age that she will suffer consequences for her acts. What she did is outrageous. What your wife did is outrageous. I hope you and her new husband continue to work to put an end to such behavior now. You can bet that neither your daughter nor your wife will end it on their own.

A totally unrelated MB Post for Monday…or maybe not so unrelated.

A wealthy old lady decides to go on a photo safari in Africa, taking
her faithful aged poodle named Cuddles, along for company.

One day the poodle starts chasing butterflies and before long, Cuddles discovers
that she's in the jungle. Wandering about, she notices a leopard heading rapidly
in her direction with the intention of having lunch.

The old poodle thinks, "Oh, oh! I'm in deep doo-doo now!" Noticing some bones on the ground close by, she immediately settles down to chew on the bones with her back to the approaching cat.

Just as the leopard is about to leap, the old poodle exclaims loudly, "Boy, that was one delicious leopard! I wonder if there are any more around here?"

Hearing this, the young leopard halts his attack in mid-strike, a
look of terror comes over him and he slinks away into the trees.

"Whew!", says the leopard, "That was close! That old poodle nearly
had me!"

Meanwhile, a monkey who had been watching the whole scene from a
nearby tree, figures he can put this knowledge to good use and trade it for
protection from the leopard. So off he goes, but the old poodle sees him heading after the leopard with great speed, and figures that something must be up.

The monkey soon catches up with the leopard, spills the beans and strikes a deal for himself with the leopard. The young leopard is furious at being made a fool of and says, "Here, monkey, hop on my back and see what's going to happen to that conniving
canine!"

Now, the old poodle sees the leopard coming with the monkey on his
back and thinks, "What am I going to do now?" but instead of running, the
dog sits down with her back to her attackers, pretending she hasn't seen
them yet, and just when they get close enough to hear, the old poodle
says: "Where's that damn monkey? I sent him off an hour ago to bring me
another leopard!"

Moral of this story…age and experience always overcomes youth, skill and treachery!
Coach

Welcome Back Coach!!! Relieved to see you are OK.

On your up-date post there was one thing I did not understand. Did you say that your wife was in SF while you were in Boston?? or was she in Florida the whole time?? Also did anybody else from the OM's family show up to the wedding??

Coach. I wrote 5 replies to you but never posted them.

Just wanted to say that I think your DD behaved atrociously and I wouldn't want to hear of you doing any *** kissing to get back in her good graces. She could use a reality check.

coach:

Not that you need a "vote" from me, but here's one anyway. I'm with ALW on the interp.

Drama! Gad. Isn't it amazing how easily it takes over peoples' lives? Your D is going 2 regret that stage act someday.

And saying that, I still think that things can be patched up, family-wise. My W expressly did NOT invite her dad 2 our wedding, because her parents were so recently DV'd and she didn't want them at the same place at the same time. But she went on 2 have decent relationships with both of them (and her mom didn't see her dad but once after that - about 20 years later, at their son's wedding).

The family landscape is changing. Who knows what it'll look like in a year? In 10 years?

I particularly loved your story about the leopard.

=ol' 2long

Glad you are back Coach.

Whatever's happened here, Coach, I'm glad you and Jake are safe. And thank you for getting back to us to let us know.

Families can be pressure-cookers, and it sounds like yours was set to blow.

TogetherAlone