So before I left for work this morning I took JL’s advice and printed out my post of last night. She was sleeping so I put it on the refrigerator with a magnet…so she wouldn’t miss it…and she didn’t.

Of course my phone rang at about 10:00…I told her that I really couldn’t speak with her at that moment…because I was in a meeting, yada, yada, yada…and that we would go out for dinner tonight and talk about things…again…then.

Before meeting her, I would like clear up a few misconceptions…for myself at least…so read on or give up on me…and I’ll understand. For me…writing this stuff out is a way for me to think…so I apologize if I am abusing anyone’s good will by taking advantage…

I just need to describe how things seem to me…My wife is not an irrational person…nor is she mean or vindictive…And I understand how many might think that she would take some kind of underhanded action…to discredit me with our children…friends and family…especially those that attended the wedding and witnessed my disappearance…but that truly isn’t her style.

As for the infamous letter we wrote together and I demanded she read to our children…I know that she read what we wrote because my children are not in the dark…concerning events that took place 7 years ago…nor our current situation. All of our children knew that I was considering not attending the wedding…and they knew the reason why…In fact it was Jill and Jordan that read Laura the riot act…and literally…told her strait out that weather I attended or not…should the Prof end up being there…they wouldn’t!

The letter was a summary of events…it was our combined effort…my wife’s and mine…to explain how the collective course of events brought us all to where we were that night…and to where we are right now…for that matter…And the letter was written in a cold and factual style purposely…it being intended to give them the information as objectively as we both could manage…so that they could asses the situation for themselves…and understand what might very well be the outcome.

This letter wasn’t about me putting a “scarlet letter” on my wife’s fore head!...The reason that I insisted that it be read at all was not to punish but rather to inform…Because I wanted all concerned to know how different were our mutual points of view…regarding the matter at hand…So what were the chances that the letter was some how slanted…to cloak my motives in a way that would discredit me?...not likely on any level…my wife wouldn’t do that…cheat on me and lie about it to me…yes…lie about me…to our children…or any one else for that matter…never.

I want you all to know that who my wife seems to be at this point is not who she always was…in terms of her actions…who knows what was always in her head?

It was seven years ago that she first showed any inclination to this kind of behavior. And even then…she hated the fact that she hurt me…I truly believe this…what has developed in this woman…allowing her to behave this way…is a mystery to me…our children and everyone else who knows her…

And what’s particularly fascinating is that when queried…as to how she would react…should the future wife of her son behave in a similar fashion…LOL, her eyes get dark and the lioness…protecting her favorite cub…emerges…Woman and sons…go figure…In fact if there is any censure that she feels the pain of…other then that being delivered by me…it’s that being communicated to her by our son Jordan…she won’t admit it but for her…the world spins according to his smile…I won’t risk describing the pet names they call each other…it would probably cause mass vomiting…so you all get the idea I’m sure.

Look, could my wife be suffering from a bi-polar condition or some other mental condition that is causing these aberrations to occur?…I would jump to this conclusion with such happiness if I could…but I don’t think so…No!...The unfortunate truth seems to be that she just doesn’t see herself as doing something unforgivable…she doesn’t believe she is being unfaithful to me…she sees these peccadilloes as unimportant little diversions…that take nothing away from her greater love, devotion and loyalty to me….In fact I would say that she sees it as being impossible for her to be unfaithful to me…this woman would cut off her body parts and give them to me if I needed them…it’s in how we define unfaithful that define our differences.

When she bit me…remember I said that it was then that I knew that she still loved me? …What she was doing was branding me…reminding me that my flesh was her flesh…that no matter what she did…we were in it together…she was waking me up…telling me to pay attention to what was really important…she was licking my blood and the wound she caused…just as she would expect me to lick her blood and her wounds…telling me in the most primeval fashion imaginable…that I was wounding her deeply…with my disapproval, suspicion, and anger…that she was insulted beyond reason…and hurt beyond reason…that I could think…that I could actually have the gaulle to believe…that I could actually dignify her supercilious acts as being serious…with my belief…MY BELIEF…that this pound of trash she was playing with…the Prof…could ever come between us…or be of any importance to her.

She just can’t connect the dots…she just can’t…or won’t…acknowledge the reality of the situation as it is for me…that it isn’t the man she was doing it with the offended me…that it was the act itself…And she just refuses to believe that something she sees as being so trivial…so unimportant… is being given this kind of priority in our lives…and I live with the fear that my daughter Laura is also missing the same “link” to her conscience…

There’s more…so much more…but what it boils down to is that she intellectually controlled her behavior for 7 years…but only to please me…as if she likens giving up her cheating to say giving up smoking…or some other offensive habit…and nothing more…

So here’s the question my children will put to me…“How do WE solve the problem? How do we get threw to her?” Not should you divorce her? That will not be the answere they want from me. This is some complex issue…
Coach

Solving the problem is not their issue. This is between you and your wife.


Getting through to her is also not your problem. You wife is not stupid. She knows.

This may well be her character. You either accept her or you don't. She either has a plan for recovery (and a way to prove to you her sincerity) or she doesn't.

From what you say right now she is in panic mode.

She says one thing which could be how she feels, then she clings and promises to never do it again (while still claiming she didn't do anything this time.)

Some of us could not live with that. If you can live with that and accept her as she is, it is your choice.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Coach:

I understand.

-ol' 2long

AM, why would you say this to me? Why would you think that I would needlessly cause her any hurt ever…The fact that she is hurting and that I am the reason…it’s terrible…I hate it!...I’m crazy about her. She’s the mother of my children and has always been the center of my universe. Maybe that’s the problem.

I know that when I’m angry…I threaten retribution, but never the senseless kind of meanness you’re describing…never! My G-D…the kind of man that would behave that way is the kind that kicks dogs.

Come on…criticize me if you will…challenge me…question me and my motives…tell me I’m selfish, prideful and stiff necked,…tell me that I often post with impatience and that I’m to harsh…but why would you want to think that I could be so purposely cruel…especially to her?

AM, your opinion of me matters…and what you wrote…that cut me…I wish everything was clear to me…but it isn’t…27 years…it will take me a while to know if I’m doing the right thing…honest…this isn’t about backing down…it’s about being sure that what I’m doing is right…for all of us…I’m searching…this is all so hard…
Coach

I unders2d that, 2.

You're missing a big piece of this, Coach. If it was some unimportant habit, I don't think she would have lied, cheated, snuck around, and then come back to you about how "nothing" happened, except some groping and kissing (which I'm still inclined to disbelieve). Her behavior is at the very least disrespectful, and probably compulsive. On some level she KNEW this would blow you away -- hence the lying and sneaking.

This doesn't need a dinner to discuss, Coach. I still say you're about to cave in on this. How do you feel about that? If that is the outcome of all of this -- would you be okay with that? Remember my warning about your vanity? Well, "pride" might have been more precise. You are proud of her carnivorousness -- but it's that very same carnivorousness that, last month, was turned against you and towards someone else. The aggressiveness you are proud of in her is being turned into aggressiveness to retrieve you and her life. You are flattered by it, and proud of it, and I suspect it will win the day.

But it will turn against you again, in the future -- because it is her nature, not her choice. By way of anecdote, I have a friend and colleague who is kind of a bulldozer. I'm not a bulldozer type, and I was delighted to have this bulldozer working for me at meetings, etc. Finally, something to rip down those interfering houses and trees that had been blocking my path. Then one day we fell on opposite sides of an issue. She was ill-informed, but nevertheless just as aggressive pulling out the houses and trees on my side of the fence. We're still friends -- but what I learned from that is that the bulldozer wasn't working "for" me; she's just a bulldozer. Not for hire. It's what she does, and I accept that.

This is what your wife does. It's not something to be proud of -- because it's no fun when it means she's off with some geek, kissing and hugging. And if he really means so little to her -- why on earth did she risk everything for this nothing guy? This empty windbag of vanity (from your description)?

Really, in truth, we are all "proud of" some aspect of our mates that are the very thing that flips on us, and turns them into a monster. For example, in other cases, we love that he is "sensitive" and "emotional," but we hate that he is a black hole of emotional need -- but it's two sides of the same coin. You can't love heads without loving tails.

I feel like you get off a bit on her emotional drama, Coach -- under less hurtful circumstances, you like the fireworks. Dangerous place to be right now.

AND I THINK YOU DESERVE BETTER, but I'll shut up on that.

OH COACH! I ABSOLUTELY HATE HURTING YOUR FEELINGS!!!

I don't mean ALL of you enjoys it -- but it would be ABSOLUTELY NORMAL if part of you wanted her to hurt as much as you have. All of us feel that. It's absolutely normal -- but it's good to know about it, because if one doesn't know about it, one can be ruled by it. The parts we don't acknowledge usually call the shots. That's why self-knowledge is so important in this game.

A small part, maybe, a minuscule part...but it's almost got to be there, nonetheless -- even if overwhelmed by other parts that feel other things.

If I'm dead wrong on this, I'm happy to admit it. But most of us would be lying if we didn't admit that part of us wants the WS's to be in agony over what they have done.

And please, Coach, my language can be somewhat inflammatory at times. Please, when this is the case, divide by three. I love to argue, but hate to fight. Please, for my sake, don't allow anything I say to hurt you, because that upsets me.

RED LIGHT RED LIGHT!!! ALERT!! ALERT!!

YOU are not the reason she is hurting, Coach. This is the result of what SHE has done.

No wonder you are in knots. She's got YOU feeling guilty.

What a manipulator!

Lord have mercy...what does she do if she's crazy about you? Shoot you between the eyes??!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

This is the most convoluted way of thinking. It rates right up there with the woman whose husband gives her a blackeye...and she's convinced it is because he loves her.

Yep...right... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Someone is in some mighty deep fog...and I ain't talking your Wife.

committed

If he is going to back down or go through with it...it is Coach's decision. And so what if he caves? I am sure he knows much better than we what is best in the end.

The more you step back and weigh the arguement as time goes by, one does get a different take on the sitch.

Coach, what if explaining to your wife that anything that she must hide from you and keep a secret IS NOT A GOOD THING!!

If she could understand and accomadate you on this one simple guideline could things be better? Could you trust her though, to do it?

And I must say that I agree with committed on the neck biting dealeo. It sounded more like a hysterical episode where she was venting her anger and frustration at you by causing you this physical pain.

I think you are stretching the envelope, yours and ours, if you want us to believe that the scar on your neck is from a love bite, showing your wife still loves you.

It was primevil alright!

k

Wait a minute! Wait a minute! RED ALERT RED ALERT!!! BEEP BEEP BEEP!!!!

Your blood is dripping from her chin...and YOU have wounded HER deeply? Your wounding her deeply means...reacting to her adultery?????? If had oral sex with the Prof in your bedroom with you there, would that wound her her even more?????? She's got you all twisted around.



A few short posts ago, you were handing her divorce papers, and she was refusing to hire an attorney. You had made up your mind. You were sad, but determined. Now you are not so sure ...

What has changed? Has any new information come into the situation? Or is she simply wearing you down, as I suspected she knew she would...

My concern is that you are trivializing your own decisions. She will learn that she can manipulate you out of your most heartfelt convictions and decisions.

Krusht, I am not saying it's "bad" to cave in -- I'm not trying to sway his decision either way. It would just be nice if Coach was aware how he was being manipulated, aware that her character is unlikely to change -- and make his decision with his eyes wide open. For ALL of us, it is good to know what we are signing up for, and not be gulled into thinking something has changed when it hasn't. And then be surprised when the predictable happens down the road. That's why we all spend so much time pointing out wishful thinking, manipulation, delusions, etc., in each other's posts -- so that we don't just fall into the rest of our lives. We want to walk into our future, on both feet.

And frankly, Krusht, what worries me about this one is she is not sorry for the incident, not sorry for breaking her promises to Coach -- but she is very very sorry she got caught and is having to pay. Does anyone think WW would be weeping and volunteering information about her betrayal if she hadn't gotten cornered into doing so? Hands please! The principal reason that "nothing happened" is she got stopped on the first round, before things could progress. And she is making it sound as if her sexual forbearance, such as it is, prevailed, rather than a shortage of ongoing opportunities to dally. All of this should concern coach as he moves towards reconciliation. There may be no remedy, but no one wants to be hoodwinked.

Coach...some questions.
1.Has your wife at least admitted to your children about the kissing and touching??

2.And how about the OM(the Professor but lets call a spade a spade)'s daughter?

She needs to own up fully. She convinced your daughter that she needed to keep the "Counseling session with the OM" a secret due to your jealousy, not because it was a EA. She needs to admit that it at least became more no matter what her long term intentions were harmless or not.

3. Has she explained what she and the OM were going to do when she planned that overnighter, after lieing to you saying she and the Groom's mother were going together?

Too many open questions....maybe a lie detector test is in order...they can be done cheaply these days. Before I would take her back and too ease my concerns I would have to know for sure the exact extent of their relationship. Not just piecemeal info when you have her cornered like the kissing etc.

With that being said, I think you still are in a better situation than most on this board considering how your wife appears to love you but her boundaries are very wacked. She thought she could go swimming with a shark(OM--mulitple affairs) and not get bite by the affair bug. If you had not caught the lie when you did...that almost overnighter could have been more than she orginally bargined for. She needs to know that almost all affairs start out as EA's then something happens!!!!

Oh my...it sounds like a whole bunch ot "mes (plural for me)" LOL talking back to me...if you'all get my drift.

Be patient folks...I'm just having a hard time with the finality of it all.

Ya know...every one else gets to have a WW they need to fight to keep...some one they are trying to convince to come on home and stay...but me...I have to have one that has it @ss backwards...I can't even have a normal case of infidelity...mine wants to stick around...

I don't understand it...it's not like I'm rich...or the spitting image of Brad Pitt...or anything that special...not when compared to her any way...It's not like she would have to worry about being alone after all...she's always been one of "those" woman...you know...the kind that always has some man interested...she's just the type...she'll have men breathing heavy around her when she 99...so what is it?...Why is she making this so difficult?

Now she can go out and flirt, party, stay out all night...go away for weekends...do anything she wants with any one she wants...so she wants to be wild...OK...now she has a blank check...no body to hold her back...to say no...so what is this all about? And it isn't about money..'cause she'll have just as much as I will when the dust clears...not to mention skads of dirty old men with many millions...hanging out down here in Miami with nothing else on their minds but pleasure...

Think I'll ask her this question to night. I'm suppose to leave the office now and meet her on Las Olas for dinner...and I'm sitting here trying to make more work for myself so I can put if off for a little longer...Say wouldn't it be funny if when I show up...she's at the bar with some guy hitting on her for a change...sad...for the last 7 years I haven't given that kind of thing a thought...but now?

More later & thank you all..especially you AM...sorry I got all sensative on you...hey Orchid...wait till tomorrow...I'm thinking of doing so foggy groggy back atcha nonsense tonight...maybe I'll have something amusing to report.
Coach

DING DING DING DING DING...............We have the winning quote of the day.

Sour

Lie detector test for what????? There is no question that the Coaches wife has been unfaithful to him and betrayed him YET AGAIN. There is no need for a lie detector test at all here.

SOur.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And here is the runner up winning quote.

Yours is VERY normal.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

A.M.,

""It would just be nice if Coach was aware how he was being manipulated, aware that her character is unlikely to change -- and make his decision with his eyes wide open.""

Coach has been married to the lady for 27/29(?) years. He is the one telling us of her character..the good and the bad. I think coach is aware.

When he was away from her he did have more of a solid outlook on what was going to happen. Now that he is back in Miami, he is subjected to her stroking and is remembering the good. Will this sway him?...and should it? We must remember how long they have been together. As coach says this is so very hard.

Maybe he needs a trial separation and be away from her for a while, keeping her be at arms legnth. Give it 3 to 6 more months. This is a very big decision, and MBers always advise not to do anything rash.

Her lack of remorse does bother me. If she says she is sorry and remorseful, then she admits she did something wrong. I think admitting this is the dealbreaker..she is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.

IMHO

k

Too late, I'm afraid, for all that. Any remorse at this point would be crocodile tears -- a transparent ploy for returning things to the norm she enjoyed, with an adoring husband and the freedom to have her way on the side. It's all too clear that it's the consequences that are upsetting her -- not the act itself. And the act itself wasn't a spontaneous moment of passion, but a premeditated dalliance with an overnight bag in the trunk. I, for one, still don't think she's coming clean about her actions or her motives.

The more serious the consequences, the more copious the tears. But this isn't the stuff of real repentence. As Coach has made all too clear -- she wishes to show how SHE is hurting from all this. What about Coach? It's all about her.

Note to Coach: I'm just asking ... why do you want her? A question to ask yourself; we certainly can't provide an answer. In all the posts you've written, you've described somebody I wouldn't particularly want to have as an acquaintance, let alone friend, and would only want to meet as a curiosity.

Maybe you aren't telling the whole story, but the words that seem to elicit your pride and admiration repeatedly are: "predator," "aggressive," "she-wolf," "carnivore," etc. "She's a woman who will be drawing sexual attention when she's 99." (These are not exact quotes, but close enough.)

Not a single thing on this list is anything close to what we would describe as a traditional virtue. Not one of these are traits to warm a heart, or make a friendship golden. None of these are particularly deep or profound marks of character. They are not sterling qualities of personal integrity. While they might have the uses and appeal, how much do they reflect your values? You are at a crossroads. This is something to consider. For yourself, not for us.

I have to stop posting. I have a deadline today and this is my way of avoiding it. I'm getting to be a post-a-holic, and I promised myself I wouldn't.

Coach,

The probability is very high that your W is, you know, still lying to you.

And the probability is, as you write, very high she will continue to lie pretty much for the rest of her life.

Can you live with this prognosis?

PS: AMM - See, I can post a short one!