Coach

I'm playing the armchair psychologist here, but please indulge me for a moment.

A.M. has nailed a significant slant to your view of your wife - that you admire certain aspects of her that are not, to others, very admirable virtues. You don't describe her as kind, or honest, or caring. As you describe her, she is savage, greedy, dishonest, charming, charismatic, sexually magnetic and ruthless. This may not be the view of her that anyone else would form if they met her, but what counts is that it's how you see her. And, by all you say, you're genuinely fascinated by those characteristics.

Everything you say about her is pretty much exactly the opposite of everything you say about yourself.

You - by your own repeated description - are worthy, plodding, not a fast thinker, honest, 'ordinary' and ever-reliable. You sound like Jake, your dog. You don't see why this woman would be interested in someone like you. But it matters to you hugely that she does, and that she should continue to do so. At no point have you said "I wish she'd just leave me alone.", which is what I think most of us would crave by now. Instead, you seem to be saying "Perhaps all this excitement will kill me in the end." You seem to be clinging to her with just as much tenacity as you describe of her.

Do you know what this sounds like to me (this is the armchair shrink bit)? If I read this as a case-study, I'd think "This man NEEDs the woman's badness, because it expresses all the badness that he doesn't dare acknowledge in himself. All the daring and adventure and rudeness and letting people down and selfishness and glory-seeking that he has suppressed in himself, he has projected onto his wife and experiences through her."

You've hinted here that there are dark sides to you, but you haven't shown much of that. Yet in many ways you've actually injected the drama into the situation by closing down at the salient moment, by walking away, by almost refusing to give your daughter away, by having an H-bomb letter read to your children at a critical moment. The events have been instigated by others, but your reaction is what has generated the intense heat.

Coach, throw this away if you think it's all psychobabble, but just ask yourself first - do you actually NEED the drama? Are you, in some unconscious way, actually generating it yourself? Are you perpetuating it? Do you really want to be free of it?

Because something here sounds downright unhealthy.

TogetherAlone

Coach hit it on the head when he referred to her as a lioness. Perfect. She stalks her prey, adredline rushes and she's off to devour her next conquest. She even lashed out at Coach for spoiling her latest adreline rush with Prof. Could it be there's a whole in her soul and she's desperately looking to fill it? Could it be a chemical imbalance? Could it be a sexual addiction? Who knows and really knowing the cause doesn't change the circumstances. She's crippled her family and has no clue that it's her fault. She's blaming the victim.

Now her prey is Coach. She's stalking him and wooing him. She can't let him go. For what reason I'm not exactly sure. Maybe she likes the home base, a place for the cubs to come to at the holidays. Maybe the security of someone who won't leave her no matter how far she roams.

I've been where Coach is now. My head would tell me that I was married to a lunatic but my heart kept telling me that he'll soon change. He'll wake up and see what a fine family he has and to this day I know as much as he is able, he does love me. Something in me wouldn't let go. It took a long time and while enduring the exasperation of my friends and family, I finally woke up. Life is too precious to waste waiting, watching and wondering. But..Coach has to get to that point himself. Everyone in my world would shake their head at my continued stupid optimism that I could rake leaves in the desert. I had to go there and see there were no leaves.

Coach if you believe there was nothing more than kissing and heavy petting, I have some land to sell you that's not too far from Miami. Serial cheaters spending the night together and they would go no further than high school freshman in the back of daddy's car? Please. You know in your heart the truth.

This is a process that you have to go through. What you do concerning this divorce is what you can live with. But know this, I'm jealous. I'm jealous of your wife. She has a fine man who dearly loves her and she doesn't know how blessed she is. Laura has a fine father and I pray she comes to her senses soon. I pray that you find the wisdom from God in dealing with this mess and see Him at work in your family's lives.

Hey, join the club, jph!

Aphelion, we seem to have a tandem thing: your posts have gotten short; mine getting longer.

I vote "yes" for TA's analysis.

WOW...rare is it that I get such a prestigous award<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


First, I would like to thank my.....Ooooops...got carried away there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

committed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Coach,

Wanna send me your addy? Would like to speak with you if you don't mind...
hcii AT hotmail DOT com

hcii

Is there a Universal Conservation of Posts Law?

Coach,

It may simply be the bruised ego of a beautiful woman that cannot accept the fact that she is being dumped. It may also be that she is deadly afraid that the whole sordid truth about her affair might come out and the image she has carefuly perfected and projected to others may be irreparably damaged. But whatever the reason, she seems incapable of grasping the damage that her affair 7 years ago caused you. MAYBE, just maybe the divorce can finally open her eyes, like it did with my multiple affair XWW [first W].

TMCM

I have to wonder...was the Prof her "first" dalliance since your agreement seven years ago or could there be more?

It seems that with her saying "nothing happened" to kissing then to rebuffing his inappropriate touches.

Have you directly asked her if there were more men that you DON'T know about since your seven year old covenant?

It certainly is possible.

Best of luck in your ordeal

WNB

Mmmmmm Coach maybe 'I' need the therapy.... I think I understand where you are coming from.

However one thing I will point out to you. From your own posts its obvious your wife seems to have two lives, with some bizare behaviour at times in both.

If thats not a sign of some kind of mental issue/troubles I dont know what is.
whatever is going on is not just her taking you for granted, thats the by product.
I know we throw the word bipolar around a lot so amybe its not that, but something is going on which is not normal in any sense of the word.
I still think you should have this looked at even if a bit down the track.
I think you know exactly what the options are and how they may play out.
You do what you need to do.

This must be brief...but I’ll post details tomorrow when I have a chance to sit, think and express myself meaningfully. Just know that last night I made her an offer she couldn't refuse, LOL.

Basically...the deal is predicated on the concept that divorce doesn’t have to mean the end of anything…that it can also signal the beginning of some thing new…a new chapter in both of our lives…together…trite sounding but workable.

So the divorce goes through...with no opposition from her...I am going to get a small studio apartment on the beach in Ft. Lauderdale (near my office).

We divide everything up (financially) so that she has her own money as do I. No commingling of funds...total financial independence for each of us. All expenses split down the middle. We will both use my new apartment as a beach club…but it is my apartment! However, should the opportunity I am offering her…to live the promises she is making…prove false…I am out of our home…with no further problem or complications. Our home will be held in a some kind of realty trust…which we will both share as financial partners…providing either party the right to make the decision to sell at will.

That being said…we will continue to live together…and try to rebuild our relationship for the last time…but as two separate parties…no longer married…each free to vacate the relationship with little or no bother…for any just cause or cause that is not just for that matter.

To safe guard the issues involved we will up date our marriage covenant to encompass new elements that seem to have crept into our lives i.e. Laura…and our mutual and separate relationships with her and how we will handle it as individuals and as a couple and opposite sex friend ships…to name two.

Handling this matter in this particular way suites me. It raises the bar for my wife…to live faithfully with me as her chosen companion…with no reason to stay faithful except by choice…It allows either she or I…the liberty to walk away…with no further burden on either of us…should one or the other of us decide that there is something or some one more to our taste available.

Not a marriage any longer for sure…but a relationship that we both agree could lead to marriage once again…if the standards she claims to value are the standards she decides to live by.

That’s it basically. More detail later.
Coach

So now you'll be the OM. Seeing if she'll be faithful to you when you take on the role of the men she's developed a relationship with since your marriage. And when/if you do remarry, how will you know that the attraction of a relationship with someone with whom she is not married will become more appealing. Because after the marriage, she would have gotten her prey.

For me, this situation would stink. Like wearing a cubic zirconia. Looks real but in my heart, I would know it was fake. I prefer the real thing....

Hello,

I wish you luck Coach. I personally feel your post is very very sad on so many levels. You certainly have a right to live your life anyway you wish. You deserve so much more respect in your life but again it is indeed your life. You sound like a person who has been so abused for so long that they actually feel comfortable being with the person who abuses them. I wish you luck because you will need it.

Well, okay, if that's what you want, coach.

But I would be remiss if I didn't remind you that the only reason you caught WW so quickly is that you had firm marital agreements in place, commitments that were broken and traceable.

Now she will have her own place to do as she will and you will take ... her word? ... as evidence that she is on the up and up.

So she gets lotsa bucks, her freedom, and a highly augmented ability to fool you. And you get, what? You can go through a courtship routine, maybe, and fill up each other love banks with counterfeit cash (i.e., she can sweetalk, and do what she likes on her own turf; you don't got it in you to lie, I think, coach).

I guess I just don't get it. It sounds like all the disadvantages of being married, with all the disadvantages of being single, too.

But hey, if it's what you want...

JPH,

""So now you'll be the OM.""

That's very harsh and not correct. Give coach some credit!

This is a separation...big time!! Big D,.. but still together, as they see fit.

Sounds like the best of both...in a perfect world!!

How does she feel about it?

GOOD LUCK WITH THIS COACH! YOU ARE THE MAN!!!

k

EDITED TO READ: Coach is doing what Sting sings about.."If you love somebody, set them free".

.....and your anniversary date w/b?????? I am sooo confused. Did you just give the green light to go have an A, even giving her a certificate (of divorce)???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Well it may boomerang, twang or just plain get all caught up in the cat gut strings. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> It certainly isn't a recovery plan, it isn't a full A plan it's a ____________? Hm......somehow that safe and sane mode doesn't fit here.

Welp Coach, hope ya know watcha doing. It is your life and the consquences either way are within your control for you.

Instead of helping her be accountable, you gave her the American Express card w/o limits. One thing the A does is make one lose their sense of value. Instead of appreciating you, she can now take advantage of you and say you encouraged her to do so. In reality, you have. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You have changed Coach. Did the 180 in reverse, counterclockwise.

L.

This sounds wishy-washy to me.

The solution is appealing in that it shows your wife that there are concrete and direct consequences to her actions. Also it will force her to work on her behaviour as you are one step away from the door at any point. Effectively you are reducing your committment to one another in order for you to give her one last chance on your terms.

The disadvantages are you are neither working on your relationship or effectively protecting yourself from future pain. This agreement might relieve some tension in the short-term, but the reduced committment and the implied threat of your couple dissolution will hinder your recovery.

In end-effect your solution is a half-hearted compromise that does not suit anybodies purpose. Either commit to your relationship or get a divorce, but don't do both.

Coach,

I have to agree with most of the comments you are receiving.

How about staying married with the divorce papers drawn up, but not filed?

That way, she gets her third chance, and she knows if she blows it, the marriage is over. You just have to file the papers. I know it is a threat over her head; however, it reads like she needs that threat, just like you have the threat of her drama.

Let's add some things up here:

1. Your wife has repeatedly cheated on you.
2. Your wife has involved your beloved daughter in her cheating ways.
3. You have behaved honorably, including showing up to a wedding you had major misgivings about.
4. You have suffered the public humiliation of estrangement with your daughter ... all of this due to your wife's "passionate" lifestyle with other men, while married to you.

Coach - you have morphed into some wimpy sappy version of the man who used to write so convincingly that there was a clear right way and wrong way to handle a wayward situation.

The old coach I used to read here, would have laid down the following conditions:
1. Wife fully and transparently discloses all activities and publically admits they are wrong without justification.
2. Wife attends an anger management recovery program.
3. Wife does whatever it takes to correct daughter's moral compass before daughter takes this cheating to another marriage and another generation.
4. Wife works with daughter to heal the harm done at the wedding, as well as the harm leading up to the wedding, and which continues to do it's damage.
5. Wife accepts whatever consequences her abuse and deceit have caused her marriage; and regardless, works to be an honorable person.

Coach, some facts you will need to face in therapy or whatever recovery you choose in order to be fully restored to the full-throttle coach who used to post here:
1. Cloud seeding - get rid of the fog that tells you that your wife's animal behavior is admirable. We are not animals; humans have the power to choose to master appetites and passions. Your wife has simply reduced her behavior to a "I can't help it" standard - and your buying into it doesn't assist her in recovering!
2. Grow the backbone you had in full measure before this last blow. Stand up for right and truth and honor; not this half-measure that you seem anxious to accept before the offer is withdrawn. Reject the crumbs your wife is offering you and make it all or nothing.
3. Plan B your daughter - financial and otherwise. Does her new husband know what she did and what he is in for?
4. Go back and read your advice prior to this last quarter's break down. Find that man and take his advice!

www.uclick.com/client/wpc/mb/

Another finalist for the "wife with no remorse competition"

PS ... give it a few seconds ... sometimes it comes up slowly

OK I ADMIT IT..............I have long been an OPPONENT of the HARLEY theory of "FOG"...I just didn't think it existed....and was just another way for a BS to rationalize the behavior of a Wayward spouse to justify to themselves that the marriage should keep going. Well, as evidenced by Coach's post above...it indeed exists.

I once again humbly admit I was incorrect about a concept of Marriage Builders. Yes, there is FOG, and exists on "both" sides of the equation. How else can one explain what the Coach has now done in order to justify staying in this relationship? How else can you explain the change from what he used to stand for to what he has become. NO other way, except "FOG", I guess. Quite sad actually. Dramatic or not, this drivel laced excuse for staying with this woman should be admitted to the Marriage Builders Fogese Hall of Fame.

Coach, I know you don't usualy care what I say (no skin off my back, honestly ), but I must say, you can dress this up any way you want, but in the end, all this is, is you MOVING your BOUNDARIES 100 feet to the left to accomodate "your conscious". It is your life in the end, and it will be you who lives with the internal consequences of this.

One thing I must say about this site is that when you think you "heard it all".....you really haven't.

Sour....