Who is "in pain?" I certainly am not and don't know what anybody's "pain" has to do with anything. Is that code for "opinions I don't like?" I don't get it...

PM, all the people here are just that...people. We bring our hurts and our baggage to the table as do you. However we all are in agreement that you need to back out of your ex's M. Tell his W no more talking behind her H's back. Tell her to take her complaints directly to him where they belong. THAT is how you can right what YOU did wrong. KWIM?

I think what you're mistaking for "pain," is a natural irritation about seeing you insert yourself in someone else's marriage, and perhaps some moral revulsion that your marriage was started with an affair.

I think it's a common mistake around here to attempt to dismiss unpopular opinions as the posters "pain" instead of being open minded and listening to opposing opinions. A very bad trap to fall into.

You say you are interested in making amends.
Ok, most of the posters here agree that given your current situation, the best way you can make amends is to treat your ex H and his W as adults, assume they can solve their own problems best on their own without you, and leave them alone.

Why do you think you are being 'spanked'?

a. She doesn't talk behind his back, she talks to him, how else would she know how he 'feels'?

b. "Pain" is what I did to someone else and yes, I feel pained about what I did, only feeling things out to see if there is an amend.

c. I didn't insert myself into anything, she ASKED me and I asked YOU

Hey, if it feels better to pick on me than to offer help, go ahead. WWJD?

If she didn't talk behind his back, you wouldn't know all these intimate details about her marriage. I seriously doubt that her H knows she is backbiting him to you.

And yes, you did insert yourself into her marriage. We can see with our own eyes that you have taken up a cause that is none of your business.

You should tell her a) that her marriage is her business and b) she shouldn't be talking about her H behind his back to you.

WWJD? I bet he would tell you to butt out and stop gossiping about your H. Leave them alone.

PM, you asked for opinions and we gave them to you. You are simply mad because we didn't tell you what you want to hear. Instead of getting angry that you didn't hear what you wanted to hear, why not consider the overwhelming consensus to just leave them alone?

"I didn't leave him for another man, I left for me."

Maybe she's wanting to leave for herself too. I don't remember ever hearing vows at a wedding that says "until death do us part,forsaking all others unless it's for my own good."

It's amazing how people who post here come back and reject overwhelming advice because it doesn't agree with their agenda. I read one recently where the poster said she was disappointed that Christians didn't respond to her post and she wanted a Christian response so I gave her a response that lined up with the Word and she thanked me. Later I saw her again complain that she didn't get the proper response. It wasn't the Christian response she wanted, it was one that agreed with her agenda.

Just because she told you their situation and "ASKED" doesn't mean to are required to help her. A proper response would be that it's really none of your business and suggest an impartial counselor would be a better solution.

"she doesn't talk behind his back"..so he's on the extention when you're speaking to her or he's there in person when you two speak of their situation? Unless that's the case, she is talking behind his back.

"Silly me, I thought I would find suggestions for making amends from people who would know what would help ease the pain." You have gotten these suggestions, butt out! Maybe their problems have nothing to do with you and if they do, don't you think getting involved would do nothing but make these problems worse. It just seems so simple.

"Perhaps none of you are interested in forgiveness, to me or your troubled spouses. No wonder you're here." That's cruel.

Hi Pete's Mom,

I think I'm going to have to go in another direction from some of my very favorite guides! Ouch. It hurts me to even do it but gotta spread my wee wings sometime right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Let's take PM at her word. Ex-H's #2 wife is having some problems and for whatever reason, she has brought them to PM, #1 wife.

And taking any judgmental attitudes out of our assessment, let's try and remember that even if the behavior of a WS choosing an A is wrong, the behavior of the BS certainly can be the reason for the wandering. Not all BS are created equal. So maybe PM had some reasons for wandering that are valid even if we don't like the way she went about it 8 years ago...

So now we have unhappy #2 wife appealing to the woman who likely knows her husband best. Right or wrong, there's some logic there. And come on, she must be in pain or desperate to be appealing to PM for help. Hey, I would have appealed to anyone who could have helped me with Phil.

Pet's Mom, your decision is still the same, what do you do. I think your counselor has a point -- you can't change your ex-H. I think the wise ones here have a point too -- probably you can't be an active help to #2 wife.

But, Um, if you feel close enough to her, maybe you could give her copies of the books "His needs, Her needs" and "Lovebusters" and point #2 wife over here to the marriage builders forum where she can start helping herself? It's another option. (And IMHO, those books should be in every home!)

Sally

Sally, I can't think of a single "valid" reason for adultery and I have been listening to "reasons" around here for years. There are endless excuses and rationalizations, but, there are no "valid reasons." Even in the very worst marriages, adultery is never the solution. Adultery is always wrong, no matter how hard we try to spin it or be "non-judgemental." [which is not a virtue to most]

I think folks had it very right, whether you agree or not, this Xwife has no place in the marriage of her X and I seriously doubt he would welcome her intrusion. It is disrespectful and no amount of professed "concern" can disguise such gross disrespect.

Melody, you are right. Valid was not the appropriate term. I should have phrased that differently.

BUT...

I do think that whether we like it or not, there are times BS behavior IS a large part of the wanderer's faulty decision-making process in the first place. Granted most BS probably are not the abusive sort but there ARE some...

These women do share some social connection regarding the children of first marriage -- did I read that correctly? I do not see how giving a couple of self help books and sharing a URL is butting in if that's the end of the line...

Pete's Mom has the capacity to be cordial and giving. Her husband concurs. Sharing self-help resources seems pretty darn passive. Those are helpful resources. I'm sorry but what wouldn't I have given if someone had pointed me in this direction sooner?! I would have been grateful for the assistance from anybody and there was no one to give it.

Sally

I think that a BS can contribute to the sorry state of a marriage, but they are never ever responsible for the bad choices of others. The WS is 100% responsible for adultery, the BS 0%. Not even the well used "abuse" card will rationalize an affair because two wrongs don't make a right. And certainly, adultery is not the solution to marital problems.

As far as PM being cordial and giving, I suspect that her XH would not consider her intrusion into HIS marriage to be very "cordial" since she betrayed him in the past. She was not invited by him. This marriage is between he and his new wife and he did not invite his XW into it. And I betcha PM knows very well he wouldn't invite her to take a role in his new marriage. To take any part in his marriage behind his back is grossly disrespectful and I seriously doubt he would appreciate that his XW is taking part in such a sneaky subterfuge.

Thank you SO MUCH, Sally, for the words I was looking for when I got here.

For everyone else, I haven't meddled in their marriage, and don't plan to, especially now. I simply asked for an opinion when presented with a request. Everyone acts like I've spend hours on the phone talking and talking, when that is not the case at all. We've had one heartfelt call that was specific to her problem, which used to be my problem, and every other conversation over the years has been about the kids, and I have to have contact with them over my child, to think otherwise is ridiculous. And I do converse with my ex, and politely so, when he calls to speak to our child and I answer and talk, I don't just run the phone over. I still care. I can be friends with him. I just can't be married to him.

And after his wife called me asking for help, the next time he called, I asked if he was aware that she was trying to find the key to the inner workings of the man she married, and he said he knew. He also said if I figured it out would I let him know.

And don't act like he's so perfect and innocent, the betrayed spouse, the innocent victim. You can lump him in the same category as "GOODGIRL" on this board, who has gotten plenty beaten up for having a relationship before her divorce was final.

After I had my affair, we went to counseling. We decided to separate for a time, to cool off. During this time, 4 weeks after the end of my affair, he began to date the woman he is now married to. I was still living in our home, but in separate bedrooms, different levels of the house. Our paths rarely crossed. Their relationship became intimate, and we returned to counseling, mostly to figure out how to end the relationship between us. Economically and practically, I had to live there for awhile, and he had her over to spend the night more than once. And you bet it was plenty wierd, that is why I am confused over why he is mad now.

And Sally, your suggestion for sending the books is excellent, I actually had thought about sending her my well-worn and marked copy of His Needs Her Needs, the Divorce Proof Marriage (that I used when trying to save my own). I was trying to decide if I should do anything at all when I came here, so I haven't done a thing in their relationship other than entertain the idea that maybe I should or shouldn't say something.

I've never sought justification or said that I was justified in anyway that I had an affair. I had one. I'll never do it again. I am sorry for it but I can't go back and change it. If I could, I would. Everyone who was brutalized by their spouses, I am sorry. I am sorry I represent that to you. It doesn't mean that you can't be of assistance to your fellow man. it is awfully clear from here that you all have unresolved issues and probably will for some time.

I'm not welcome on this board, and I'll not come back. I appreciate the responses that I got that included practical advice, like Sally's, which offered a response to my inquiry without the sticks and stones. I expected to get hammered when I got here, just not lynched.

I hope you all heal well and have long and happy lives.

PM, sorry you didn't get the canned responses you wanted, but that is the risk you take when you ask for opinions. You might just get what you asked for: opinions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Melody lane, all I've heard is the song of the fools, no rebuke of the wise save perhaps one. You so miss the point. And I wasnt looking for a canned response.

If you cannot forgive someone who is in the same position that your spouse is in (Adultery, obviously, else you would not be in this forum), then how you possibly pretend that you can forgive in your marriage?

You are bitter and resentful. If someone were suicidal, I would hope they not run into you for guidance and counsel.

DaiseyMae, you forgot to change back to your other screen name, dear. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

FOUL!

I lie awake nights trying to figure out how to forgive my W. I reflect on forgiveness while stuck in traffic, in line at the market, cutting the grass, cooking my dinner...

As for my post to you... I thought I was being helpful, and like most every other poster, I wrote nothing disrespectful in my response to you. I had no inclination to project any of the anger I feel toward the people who screwed up my life onto you, and tried to be mindful of that when I posted to you.

GC

PM,

If you are inclined to give a couple of self-help books, I would strongly urge that they be new and unmarked. Desperate people can be impressionable and for #2 wife to be reading your notes just seems flat out wrong to me... she needs to form her own notes on her marriage... you know?

It might be helpful to give #2 wife some short, plain statements that express your compassion but also define your boundaries and limits:

1. I want to be a help for you but I think you know it isn't possible for me to give you truly unbiased and objective support.

2. We [you and your CURRENT husband] are glad that we get on together without too much angst. It's so important for our families' happiness that we preserve that.

3. We're definitely concerned that getting involved with YOUR marital problems could really be harmful to both of our current marriages.

4. These books/resources have been helpful to me. I hope they will be a help for you. Your marriage doesn't have to be like mine was.


Just some ideas... I hope you will continue to post here on MB. We all benefit from each other's wisdom.

Good luck PM!
Sally

Well, your argument holds no water, at least in my case. My spouse and I are NOT dealing with adultery, we just don't communicate well, and I came here to learn how to do that better. So, I am not bitter and unforgiving, I think you just need to stay out of other people's marriages, and work on your OWN. If they need help, let them seek the services of a marriage counselor.

And if you claim that everyone that posts here is bitter and unforgiving, what does that say about YOU??

Opppppsss!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />