I have known someone for 4 years as acquaintances- been friends about 2.5. We have worked together several different places. We have always been just friends, because he has always had a girlfriend or I was married or actually I just didn't think about it, although a friend of mine who knows me, and knows him, separately, thinks we'd be great together. About 3 weeks ago we went out for a few drinks with some co-workers. We got into a discussion about his girlfriend of about a year, she has been bothering him lately- he said he is on his way out. I talk to him about this, then we change subjects. I am in the middle of a sentence and he kisses me. I was shocked and pulled away. Then I told him we couldn't do that- but long story short - we did do that- for a while. He has been calling or emailing me, and I don't know what to do about it. I don't know if I like him or not because he has a girlfriend so I don't let my mind go down that road. Last weekend he called and asked me if he didn't have a girlfriend- what then. I said I didn't know, because that wasn't the scenario. He said he never cheated on the girl I knew he dated for 5 years and I believe him. He said he has only cheated with this girl with me. Somehow I believe him. Maybe because others who aren't in my shoes know him and they believe it too. I feel bad about that though. Yet I don't feel as bad because part of me feels that is what dating is all about, is realizing who is and who isn't right for you. But I don't want to be his rebound girl. I don't know if I need to date him at all ever. I guess my question is just, do you think this is wrong just like in a marriage? Part of me says yes because it is hurtful to someone else, part of me says no because dating is not the full commitment.

PS I am not going to kiss him again though while he is seeing the girlfriend.

RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Adgirl, if you were "dating" him for a year and he did this with your friend, how would you view his actions?

After a year of dating, I'm prone to say that their relationship has risen to a certain level of commitment and IMHO his colors have been disclosed. So what if you're dating him and he gets bored with you, does that make it ok for him to screw around on you?

I would say, shame on you for messing around with him in the first place. Heck, in all honesty, what you've stated describes what we here all the time, well my marriage was almost over anyway......blah blah blah......

Stick with SINGLE men........ And as for this guy, whether you believe him or not, I'd show him the curb.

Is it as bad?

It doesn't matter. It's bad enough.

Just my opinion.

Thanks for the responses. Actually you are right Gnome- it's just bad.

a cheater is a cheater no matter when or what

Once a cheater always a cheater? Is that your mindset? If so, what is the good of MB for all of these people? Or do you just mean, cheating is cheating and it is wrong in whatever case? Just asking for clarification?

i meant that it is cheating if you are married or not...end the relationship first...then play

I agree.

My position has always been this: If in a "committed" relationship - then it's cheating. The 'Websters' definition of "committed" is clear enough.

Now - is it "as bad"? I have to be honest: Any "relationship" where kids are involved is the worst. Since the most common relationship that involves kids is 'marriage', then I would consider cheating in a marriage with kids to be worse.

FR

Which is worse?

1. Driving 10 miles an hour over the speed limit in a school zone. OR

2. Driving 40 miles an hour over the speed limit in a school zone.

I think we all know the answer. Both, violate the rules, but one is a lot worse than the other.

He did NOT violate sacred vows, but he may have mislead his girlfriend. I would say that if he is willing to break up with his girlfriend without a commitment from you to be a possible new girlfriend, then that is OK. He should not string either of you along.

Justin,
So you think, if he breaks up with girlfriend, then months later, comes back to me, and says he still wants to date me, that this would be ok? Rather than break up with girl, then come to me? This last part is what I want to avoid. I don't want him breaking up with girlfriend, then coming to me and wanting to start things. I think he needs to be on his own to figure out if he just doesn't want girlfriend, or if he really does want me. For that matter, I need to figure out what I want too. I guess I feel like I am not "destroying" something, like an affair partner in a marriage. Because no covenant has been made. But it isn't that I feel really great about it either. Hurting someone is never good.

I would agree that would be best. Only you can decide the time frame that you are comfortable with.

I'll add one thing: Both of my long-term, committed relationships began with men who were in non-marriage committed relationships. One was exclusively dating a young lady he went to high school with (he was 17, she was 17, I was 16) and had been for over a year. We dated exclusively for over three years, and it all fell apart. The second was my now XH. He was in a committed relationship engaged to be married - although, to my credit, I did not know this until after we had been seeing each other for several months. She had cheated on him, he had, obviously, cheated on her. He had told me that she and he had "taken a break from each other" while she was working and living out of town, and then, because he had previously promised to marry her, when she decided that "break" was up, they started planning the wedding. I was sure that they were not meant for each other, because, of course, WE were... And he eventually broke off the engagement. We did not get together "officially" exclusively for a month or two after that, but we did see each other pretty much exclusively, and eventually moved in together, then a year or two later got married. "The rest, as they say, is history."

Granted, this is only two relationships, but the pattern to me is clear: becoming involved with someone who is in an exclusive relationship with someone else is always BAD - someone is getting hurt - and it's almost a guarantee there will be problems later on down the line for YOU.

Personal experience. Still smarts a bit, too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

There are multiple directions that you can go with this. Once a cheater, always a cheater? Not always. There are those who cheat, realize it's wrong, stop, and begin to right the wrongs. There are others who cheat habitually (meet tfm's XW). This is an indication of when who either can't or won't discern right from wrong. These kinds of folks will cheat with justification. It's not wrong, this time, because of xxxxxxxxxx. See. If the connection with you was absolutely wonderful, he would do everything he could to make it great for you two? Is he? No, he's two-timing his GF.

This just in. You may be beautiful, intelligent, and have a wonderful sense of humor. You may be the most amazing woman in the world. But you ain't that special. Sorry. He will do it to you, because you condone it by participating in it.

There are a ton of guys who haven't and won't cheat on or with you.

Cheaters who don't feel like crap about it, guess what? They aren't learning, and will likely repeat this behavior.

And MB won't help serial cheaters. MB is not designed to help those with some sort of mental dysfunction.

That's my .02.

Ethan

once a cheater always a cheater is a silly malapropism IMO (although I stretch the def.). All human beings cheat..regularly. What is more relevant (and of more interest), is when and why. The devil is in the details. One persons notion of cheating is another persons practice of independence and freedom. Condsidering the specific cheating alluded to here, at the very least there needs to be a spoken (and presumedly discussed thoroughly) agreement to date exclusively. But even that is a problem, what is a date exactly, what about "talking" to someone, what about touch, etc. The boundaries are more clear in marriage, but does it make sense to apply the same boundaries to dating...no.

On the other hand, for a relationship to progress it must reach stages of ever increasing exclusivity. Keeping that in mind, it is possible to cheat from the 1st date (or even before), so what the heck do we mean exactly by "cheating"?

Cheating is usually expressed as "acts" that the other party objects too. IMO that is a mistaken focus, such are only symptons (maybe, could just be you are a jealous witch too). Of more interest is the attitude of the cheater, if said individual is acting out of a sense of entitlement, or with total disregard for others feelings, then yep, probably always be a cheater, and of no value in a relationship/friendship. But it isn't because they are a cheater, is because they are narcissitic, sociopathic, full of themself, and so forth. But, if they "cheat" and are obeying their own clearly communicated boundaries, then YOU have the problem. That being unreasonable expectations. There is a mistaken notion that a certain amount of time together = exclusivity. That is an unwarranted assumption. IMO since both men and women are polygamous pre-maritally by design, it makes sense a formal "going steady" conversation must take place. If not, then we have a lot of manipulation going on (as one or both try to impose limits on the others choices), and make it likely (if not certain) someone will "cheat", as they notice someone they want to pursue.

I don't know where the man was in this circumstance. You suggest he is in an exclusive relationship. If that is true (and meets all the criteria for such) then IMO his behavior is reprehensible (as is yours). I also do agree that a pattern of cheating in relationships (after exclusivity agreements reached) is indicative of a person with low character, not to be trusted ever, and will most likely cheat all their life. There is little difference between cheating in marriage, or while dating, the behavior is the same, just the consequences differ (mostly relating to the extreme distress on the spouse, and children). Therefore I would not marry (or date) a person who had a history of relationship cheating. Nor would I have much interest in rehabilitateing them through my great love...bleeeech.

adgirl, you are playing with fire, it all depends on his actual relationship with the other woman, and his own behavior. But it seems pretty tacky at best. Of course this is the reason you should not go steady, until ready. Meaning you are ok with giving up pursuit of others, and focus on building deeper with this one.

He will do it to you, because you condone it by participating in it.

Ethan [/quote]

I am not participating in it- It started one night and I told him it ended one night.

In my opinion cheating is cheating. It doesn't matter if you're married or just dating. It hurts all the same and it shows that the person isn't trustworthy and doesn't deserve your time or attention. I would run!!!

adgirl,

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not criticizing or making an attempt to judge harshly. The fact that this guy is involved with someone else in a committed relationship, and the two of you have gotten to the point where a kiss would happen is very telling.

The fact that you're not sure how to proceed shows a fairly deep level of involvement on your part. The fact that he's got a girlfriend AND someone that he's somewhat interested in at work, shows that he is really not that interested in being that serious with either of you, and probably not worth the time of you or his GF.

And that just isn't something I'd be interested in at all. To be somebody's "side-project" while they're "working on getting their SO out of thier life?" Whatever. Is he in or out?

You deserve someone who gives you 100% of thier attention 100% of the time.....

Ethan

I think dating is just as important as marriage. If a person cheats on you when you all are just boyfriend and girlfriend, marriage makes no difference.Whenever you get with someone and you all are dating each other exclusively, the commitment starts right then and there. There is no lesser cheating or greater cheating if you're with someone. Also too, if someone feels like that about cheating, what about if you all get together and he meets someone else during a time when things are bad between you all, THEN WHAT?

Furniture Man, Oh no, I didn't think you were criticizing. I just wanted to clarify, that yes, I made a mistake one night, but no, I am not going to again while he is dating girlfriend. You said we have gotten to a point to where a kiss can happen- let me say I guess that is where I was surprised as well. We have known each other and been out together separately (I mean, meet out, with other people around, leave separately) enough times for drinks, that it has never been an issue. We have been friends, we talk occasionally on the phone, there were many mornings at work that it was just he and I. Nothing has happened. So to get to a point- I didn't know we got to a point. We did the same thing that night we always have. He just is having issues and brought me into them.
The fact that I am not sure how to proceed is more that I have a blast with this guy. He has made me laugh when I have felt like crying and crying. The 2nd job we worked at together, the weekend before we started, was the weekend I found out about my now ex's OC. I was devastated. He is one of the people who listened, who said how much it sucked, who didn't think I was a mad woman when he would walk outside and hear me cussing my ex on the phone, and then we would go to lunch (in a group) and he would make me laugh. We have a lot of fun together. And I know in a marriage, if someone cheats with someone, boom, that is the end of that person's relationship with the affair partner, if their is going to be a marriage. I just don't want this to be the end of our friendship, because he cheated on his girlfriend with me.
Yes you are totally right on the "is he in or out" part, and totally right that I deserve someone who wants me 100%. I am beginning to learn that, which is why I have not done anything else with this person physically, even though I have had opportunity. I "just said no". hahaha. I WANT to be with someone who loves me completely, no competition.